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  1. #1
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    Seventh Grader Sues School Over Right to Wear Pro-Life T-Shirt
    Monday, July 06, 2009
    By Maxim Lott

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    American Life League




    A California mom says her public school administrators violated her daughter's First Amendment rights when they ordered the seventh-grader to take off her pro-life T-shirt.

    Anna Amador has gone to court on behalf of her daughter, who she says was ordered by her principal to change her shirt on "National Pro-Life T-Shirt Day." The shirt the girl was wearing displays two graphic pictures of a fetus growing in the womb.

    The incident occurred in April 2008 at McSwain Elementary School, a K-8 school in Merced, Calif. Amador alleges in her legal complaint that school Principal Terrie Rohrer, Assistant Principal C.W. Smith and office clerk Martha Hernandez mistreated her daughter and denied the girl her First Amendment rights when they ordered her to leave the cafeteria and change her shirt.

    "Before Plaintiff could eat [breakfast] she was ordered by a school staff member to throw her food out and report immediately to Defendant Smith's office, located in the main office of McSwain Elementary School," the complaint reads.

    "Upon arriving at the main office, Defendant Hernandez, intentionally and without Plaintiff's consent, grabbed Plaintiff's arm and forcibly escorted her toward Smith's office, at all times maintaining a vice-like grip on Plaintiff's arm. Hernandez only released Plaintiff's arm after physically locating her in front of Smith and Defendant Rohrer...

    "Smith and Rohrer ordered Plaintiff to remove her pro-life T-shirt and instructed Plaintiff to never wear her pro-life T-shirt at McSwain Elementary School ever again...

    "Completely humiliated and held out for ridicule, Plaintiff complied with Defendants' directives and removed her pro-life T-shirt, whereupon, Defendants seized and confiscated it. Defendants did not return Plaintiff's property until the end of the school day."

    The school administrators dispute some of the allegations, said Anthony N. DeMaria, attorney for the McSwain Union Elementary School District.

    "I think the school district has a very strong defense," DeMaria said. "The complaint does not properly characterize the events that happened. Certainly we dispute some of the events."

    He said he was unable to reach the administrators to determine which parts they say are incorrect, because school is out for the summer. Rohrer, the principal, told FOXNews.com on Monday that she could not issue a statement without consulting with the school superintendent and their attorney. The other defendants and school district employees did not respond to calls and e-mails from FOXNews.com.

    The school district sought to get the case thrown out due to "failure to state a cognizable claim," but a U.S. Eastern District Court judge ruled last month that all but one of Amador's claims could go forward.

    The complaint quotes school district officials saying that they ordered Amador's daughter to remove the shirt because it cons uted "inappropriate subject matter" in violation of the school's dress code, which bans clothing with "suggestion of tobacco, drug or alcohol use, sexual promiscuity, profanity, vulgarity, or other inappropriate subject matter."

    Amador claims in the legal complaint that other students at the school have been allowed to wear expressive shirts, and she blames the school for “inconsistently applying their Dress Code based upon subjective determinations as to which messages are acceptable and which messages are not.”

    One of the girl's lawyers, Mark A. Thiel, said that the images on her shirt of a fetus in the womb were same as those in her science textbooks. He said no student had complained about the shirt, and he said the girl's parents were not called when the incident took place.

    "This was a young girl, not even in high school. But they didn't call," he said.

    A spokeswoman for the local Planned Parenthood chapter declined to take sides in the case.

    "Even offensive speech is protected as long as it doesn’t impinge upon the rights of others," said Deborah Ortiz, vice president of public affairs for Planned Parenthood Mar Monte.

    "School administrators have a mission to educate, and the student’s right to political speech should be protected in balance with this education mission."

    UCLA law professor and First Amendment expert Eugene Volokh said Supreme Court precedent appears to support the girl's case.

    "During the Vietnam War, the Supreme Court ruled that wearing black arm bands [at school, to protest the war] was OK,” Volokh said. “If students can wear armbands in protest, why can't they wear a pro-life shirt?"

    He said the case would be different if there was evidence that the shirt could have led to disruption or fighting.

    "Schools have a lot more authority than the government does in regulating speech,” he said. “If someone is speaking on a street corner and it looks like other people are going to start a fight over it, the government's job is to protect the speaker. That is not the case in schools. We need to make sure students learn. So if speech is highly disruptive, well … in that case we can suppress it.

    "But the school's position that they can restrict speech just because they find it inappropriate is not correct."

    But the fact that it's a K-8 school with very young children could change things, said Brooklyn Law School professor William Araiza. He pointed to the 2007 Supreme Court decision in Morse v. Frederick, where the court allowed a high school to suspend students in Juneau, Alaska, who waved a banner that read “Bong hits 4 Jesus” from across the street during an Olympic torch relay, because it was seen as promoting illegal drug use.

    “[The school] could almost use a “bong hits” kind of rationale about protecting students from inappropriate messages,” Araiza said. “For instance, would you allow a 4th grader to wear a gruesome picture of a bomb scene? You probably wouldn't.”

    First Amendment attorney William Becker, who represents Amador, disagreed that the shirt could be seen as containing inappropriate messages.

    "The message of the T-shirt is that life is sacred," he said. "One would be very hard pressed to find anything wrong with that particular idea, except that some people do object to the political message.”
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,530284,00.html?mrp


    You right wingers are such a hoot.

  2. #2
    Veteran Ignignokt's Avatar
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    The first ammendment is reserved only for democrats.

  3. #3
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    Schools tend to frown on bringing things that will cause a distraction...like a pro life t shirt with a fetus on it...

    Do you approve of allowing some students to distract others from learning?

  4. #4
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    Schools tend to frown on bringing things that will cause a distraction...like a pro life t shirt with a fetus on it...

    Do you approve of allowing some students to distract others from learning?
    If what our public school system churns out cons utes "learning", our problem lies not in the content which a student wears on school grounds, but in the irrelevant minutia the system pays most attention to.

  5. #5
    Pimp Marcus Bryant's Avatar
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    If what our public school system churns out cons utes "learning", our problem lies not in the content which a student wears on school grounds, but in the irrelevant minutia the system pays most attention to.
    Indeed.

  6. #6
    No darkness Cry Havoc's Avatar
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    Good for this girl. I find it amsuing that the shirt had the potential to spark actual debate (which could promote learning) about a particular subject, and it's now being taken down.

    Junior high and high schools are quickly becoming one of the worst places to go for actual knowledge in the country.

  7. #7
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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    If what our public school system churns out cons utes "learning", our problem lies not in the content which a student wears on school grounds, but in the irrelevant minutia the system pays most attention to.

    Two of my children can identify the states.....


    BY SHAPE!

  8. #8
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    Two of my children can identify the states.....


    BY SHAPE!
    You, my friend, win at life. Your children are now properly prepared to fully engage life's challenges. As a parent, does it get better? I am not a parent, but I would think not.

    Some day, I hope my aborted children can identify the US states by shape. Think of the opportunities this would open up for them.

  9. #9
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    Good for this girl. I find it amsuing that the shirt had the potential to spark actual debate (which could promote learning) about a particular subject, and it's now being taken down.
    God forbid children/young adults have a discussion about something outside a textbook. Could you imagine what some of the parents would do?

    , that might be the first time some of these parents ever step foot on school grounds. Not demanding a better education or, *gasp*, meeting the teachers tasked with educating their children...

    No, no, no...more important stuff like what not to have discourse on. Wouldnt want to expose little Mary to the realities of life and the people in it. No, she's fine with us...and television...and the internet...and her friends...and....well, .

    Junior high and high schools are quickly becoming one of the worst places to go for actual knowledge in the country.
    I had an intense interest in school and learning from a young age. Right up until high school, I was a good student (im not bragging, is easy as you all know). 99% of my disinterest can be attributed to me and me alone. But that 1% can be attributed to the school, the system, the beauracracy, the totally irrelevant rules and the boredom of having to watch a teacher struggle to get 10 kids caught up and in sync with the 30 other kids who were now bored and "turned off" attention-wise.

  10. #10
    Pimp Marcus Bryant's Avatar
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    so people don't have a problem with schools strip searching kids (for drugs) and making them piss in front of adults (to test for drugs) but they care when schools won't let stupid little girls wear certain (perhaps disgusting-looking) shirts
    Indeed.

  11. #11
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    so people don't have a problem with schools strip searching kids (for drugs) and making them piss in front of adults (to test for drugs) but they care when schools won't let stupid little girls wear certain (perhaps disgusting-looking) shirts
    This is important, 4cc. Think of the children.

  12. #12
    Pimp Marcus Bryant's Avatar
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    I had an intense interest in school and learning from a young age. Right up until high school, I was a good student (im not bragging, is easy as you all know). 99% of my disinterest can be attributed to me and me alone. But that 1% can be attributed to the school, the system, the beauracracy, the totally irrelevant rules and the boredom of having to watch a teacher struggle to get 10 kids caught up and in sync with the 30 other kids who were now bored and "turned off" attention-wise.
    Why do you think the system continues, despite the miserable performance?

  13. #13
    Orange Whip? Orange Whip? Viva Las Espuelas's Avatar
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    so you are for censorship? figures.

  14. #14
    Pimp Marcus Bryant's Avatar
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    Public schools prepare children to accept the warfare-welfare-corporatist state.

  15. #15
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    I think that child is well within her right to sue, and I don't see how she couldn't win.

  16. #16
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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    Public schools prepare children to accept the warfare-welfare-corporatist state.
    Thanks for that.

    With three children in the system, I couldn't tell WHAT they were being trained for! Seems to me they are learning, as DR suggested, a bunch of irrelevant garbage - and being graded on their ability to stay organized, write in COMPLETE sentences, and follow directions to the tiniest minutia.

    I was afraid there was no point, and that the former education majors (not the brightest lot on college campuses), who are now teachers, were simply out-classed in their ability to teach my children anything at all. Now I know I was wrong - that there is a plan. I'll sleep better.

    Thanks again.

  17. #17
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    Why do you think the system continues, despite the miserable performance?
    Excellent question. One I dont think I'll answer properly or with decent perspective as I have been out of the education system for quite some time (high school, college or otherwise) and I dont have children.

    My take; Laziness and Indoctrinated Parents

    American parents, in general, are lazy. So am I, admittedly. Having a system of education that is commonly known to be inferior allows blame to be layed elsewhere besides upon themselves. A scapegoat, if you will. A very convenient, government sponsored (therefore universally despised) scapegoat.

    "Ive got to pay taxes for this?! This is such bull ..."

    Yet, pay taxes you do without fail.

    I am constantly asked "Why dont you two have children yet?"

    To which I reply "Because children cost a lot of time and a lot of money. I enjoy both immensely, selfishly."

    Having children and raising children as easy as anyone can tell, requires FAR more than the old tagline roof over their head and food in the fridge.

    If that is the extent to which our national obligation to children reaches (by and large, mind you), then the system didnt fail us, we failed the system.

    Most American families have two parents who work...hard. A majority never went to college or graduated (Im included in that category), yet in their minds, they turned out just fine. Whats good for the goose must be good for the gander, so to speak.

    They couldnt imagine that they are the unwitting benefactors of an economically American-dominated world. They actually believe they earned their lot in life alone and without help from anyone.

    They dont know why American business needs to import Far East talent at all-time-high levels, or that this even happens (en masse). They care not for comparisons to other countries, 3rd world or not, as this isnt a concern here in the States.

    IMO, American parents believe that education stops at some elastic point. They know their kids should go to college because theyve been told by a big, rich corporate stick that this will separate their offspring from the rest. When in actuality, it doesnt per say. Research into subject of interest, even rudimentary interest, I dont think happens to most American adults. I can name TWO adults in my family that read for enjoyment, much less actually try and actively learn about a subject you had no prior education on. I have a big family.

    To me, it comes down to this.

    Blaming the system is easy. The system does in fact, suck, of this there is no doubt. The system doesnt help itself with its standoff-ish relationship with most parents. Educators dont want the parents in school regularly for the same reason parents do not go in the first place. Its depressing to see just what a complete waste of ing time it actually is and that you have to somehow lie through your teeth to your children about how incredibly important this is when in reality, you know 90% of the crap theyve been forced to memorize will never apply to their lives or livelihood.

    Sad truth is, not every citizen can be a professional. Not logistically, not economically. If we were all lawyers and accountants, who would work the roads with an actual shovel? Who digs the ditches so that water runs off the road at certain pitches? Builds the buildings, not just design them (as admirable and difficult as that is).

    The public school system is flawed, it should be more career focused or done away with entirely to let the local municipalities be responsible for the education of their own children. Standardized testing is the equivalent of lowering the bar. Many things are wrong with the system, little is right.

    All of this can be resolved with the quickest of ease. Parental involvement at schools around the country on a regular basis (like, weekly). But this is discouraged by the schools (they dont want transparency for the most part) and loathed by parents (both working 10 hours for pay then have to go to the boys school to discuss his edu- ing-cation?!). Its a mutually assured destruction.

    We Americans are far too slovenly addicted to our chosen entertainments. We expect to come home from work and watch tv, play video games, whatever. Something that s with that routine, no matter how important, is considered a chore, a drag. Because after busting my ass at work all day, the last thing I want to do is go over the work of my son and his teachers about subjects I have loooong forgotten about that have never applied to my ass-busting at work and in life. The cycle continues and besides, American Idol is on next!

    Side note: I believe blaming the education system is lazy thinking. I am not the sort to think our education system is the enemy, but that our media addiction and entertainment-centric lifestyle is. The system didnt fail us, we failed the system by not maintaining it ourselves at the lowest of levels, inside the family. We did what we as a People are supremely best at...we bequeathed a familial responsibility to a social someone/something else in the name of expedience and conformity for ease of use and access. If anything, we betrayed ourselves, we were not betrayed, or at least, we shouldnt be surprised when we feel betrayed.

    There are going to be exceptions abound to this post. I realize most of you (if not all of you) probably do not apply to any of the stereotypes. I know that there are good people with their priorities straight who see the decay as I do. But this is an over-arching opinion...maybe not a favorable one and maybe not even true at all except in my own head. I can live with that.

    I have no children, I dont want any. Im a pessimist and think this world is a hole full of heads. Being born today is not a blessing, its a ing curse, IMO. I would feel quite guilty having children about now. Their lives are going to be worse, FAR worse than yours or your parents. If theyre not prepared for that experience, which requires oodles of time and love, then theyre going to struggle or even perish. No thanks...too much responsibility for me. Im a coward like that for now, but now is not forever.

  18. #18
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    The problem with school systems nowadays is that it seems to want to teach easily gradable FACTS, and nothing else besides.

    The problem is, that most learning is done when the facts aren't clear, and we are challenged with out beliefs and forced to define them.

    The best teachers find a way to take those facts, and teach them, but couch them in ways that get students to think about more than facts.

    I will have a few years after my kid is born to decide about homeschooling, but I believe I will send him to public. I plan on supplementing his learning though, with geeky stuff about politics, science, and reading (which I enjoy.)

  19. #19
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    I am dead serious when I say this...

    You want to fix America? I mean, really fix it? Education, politics, war, the works?

    Shut the ing power off nationwide for 2 months to a year.

  20. #20
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    so you are for censorship? figures.
    I'm for sending my kids to school without unecessary distractions. Why are you for distracting kids at school?

  21. #21
    Orange Whip? Orange Whip? Viva Las Espuelas's Avatar
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    I'm for sending my kids to school without unecessary distractions. Why are you for distracting kids at school?
    it's only distracting if you pay attention to it. i'd send mykids to school. not to sightsee.

  22. #22
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    I'm for sending my kids to school without unecessary distractions.
    ...distractions that dont align with your political/social view.

    Admit it, a genous school setting is a pipedream. To even pretend the possibility exists is preposterous.

    This young student obviously has an opinion. That she chose to share it isnt a bad thing, even when that opinion contradicts your own.

    Half the problem with school is the sanitation of its atmosphere from the real world. Children should not be shielded from reality, in actuality, they should be shown every horror of this world at a young age, IMO.

  23. #23
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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    I have no children, I dont want any. Im a pessimist and think this world is a hole full of heads. Being born today is not a blessing, its a ing curse, IMO. I would feel quite guilty having children about now. Their lives are going to be worse, FAR worse than yours or your parents. If theyre not prepared for that experience, which requires oodles of time and love, then theyre going to struggle or even perish. No thanks...too much responsibility for me. Im a coward like that for now, but now is not forever.
    Problem is, DR, all the idiots are reproducing like bunnies.

    Devolution.

  24. #24
    Orange Whip? Orange Whip? Viva Las Espuelas's Avatar
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    ...distractions that dont align with your political/social view..

  25. #25
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    All I can say is I am really pissed about the governmental indoctrination centers that our children are forced to participate in. Sure, if you have enough money, you can go to private schools, or home school. Conservatives want to make it easier to get vouchers for choice of school and liberals always fight it. Interesting how most the kids graduation are registering democrat, and how they are trained in the socialist ways.

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