Oldest known Bible doesn't match the one you'll find in churches today

[whottt]

I'm not saying it's all fiction. More like "based on a true story" movies. The truth is stretched.

Or changed over time.


it takes two seconds to take something someone says in the media and change into someting else that half the people will believe untrue or not.

It also had multiple authors and has been used to legitimize rulers...

It is interpreted differently by every pastor...


That doesn't mean it's a fairytale.


I mean what is it that you guys want? Historical proof of every miracle?


Because many of the people in the bible did exist...many of the places, many of the events.

I mean Babylon is right there in ing Iraq.


Mircales?

How can you prove a miracle? Once we can do it it won't be a miracle.

[LnGrrrR]

I'll give you guys 10 bucks a piece if you go kill a pig and eat it without cooking it.

Nothing immoral about it.

I mean, it's just a fairytale.

Whottt, you're really losing it.

I've never said that the Bible wasn't ahead of its time in many areas. It is! I think that's why it originally was so useful. And I think of all religious people, the Jewish have the most honest religion, a covenant/contract between a supreme being and his chosen people, regulated by rules.

[LnGrrrR]

Or changed over time.


it take two seconds to take something someone says in the media and change into someting else that half the people will believe...

It also had multiple authors and has been used to legitimize rulers...

It is interpreted differently by every pastor...


That doesn't mean it's a fairytale.

Whottt, I never stated it was a fairytale; ElNono did. Although even he stated he believed it more to be a fantastical story designed to mislead, rather than a true 'fairy tale'.

[whottt]

If I had a dollar for every ing atheist intellectual that told me, I don't believe in some old man sitting up there in the clouds.

Nowhere in the bible does it say god is an oldman sitting in the clouds...in fact it pretty much makes it clear that most humans could not bear to be in the actual presence of God.

There are several ways you can take that...none of them have anything to do with him being some old man sitting in the clouds.

[whottt]

Actually, the Sun came after Earth was created.



The most amazing thing that the Bible did in regards to technology, I've found, was its support of washing and good hygiene.

No, you're wrong, read it again:

When God[3] began to create heaven and earth, and the earth then was welter and waste and darkness over the deep and God's breath hovering over the waters, God said, 'Let there be light.' and there was light"(Genesis chapter 1:3) [4]; the "firmament" separating "the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament;" dry land and seas and plants and trees which grew fruit with seed; the sun, moon and stars in the firmament; air-breathing sea creatures, fishes and birds; and on the sixth day, "the beasts of the earth according to their kinds." "Then God said, Let us make man in our image ...

If you know anything about the physics of planetary creation the prelight earth is basically what we would call a planetary accretion disk, at least the way it reads to me being "waste" the earth as we know it came after the light.


And no, the most amazing thing to me is that it basically nails the sequence of life originating on Earth to an alarmingly accurate degree...without the benefit of any science whatso ever...well that, and the pre-science description of planetary formation.


I wonder how they knew that?

Maybe someone that knew told them?

Maybe they would call him a space alien.

I wonder how they would describe that person?

I wonder how he would explain it to them?

I wonder how they would explain it to anyone else.



Nah...


I doubt they'd call a flashlight a flashlight either.

[ElNono]

Oh and just so I don't get crucified here as much, I consider the bible to be somewhat of a historical fiction work like 'Forrest Gump' meaning that there's some truth behind it with historical people and what not --- its just been retold as a seemingly fantastic and amazing story.

There's no arguing that the message it intends to pass along is what we all would consider a good, positive message.
Frankly, I think if you were to take out the supernatural from it, it would still make for a fairly decent 'feel good' story. The thing is, I doubt it would have had the historical impact it had in the current form.

We also have learned what beliefs had other civilizations that predate the manuscripts that form the base of the bible. They also believed in multiple gods and one of the few constants is the use of those 'higher beings' in order to manipulate the general population.

[LnGrrrR]

If I had a dollar for every ing atheist intellectual that told me, I don't believe in some old man sitting up there in the clouds.

Nowhere in the bible does it say god is an oldman sitting in the clouds...in fact it pretty much makes it clear that most humans could not bear to be in the actual presence of God.

There are several ways you can take that...none of them have anything to do with him being some old man sitting in the clouds.

I consider myself an agnostic atheist. I currently have no belief in any supernatural being or force (there's the atheist part) but I can't say for certain that one isn't out there (<--- agnostic part.)

[LnGrrrR]

No, you're wrong, read it again

If you know anything about the physics of planetary creation the prelight earth is basically what we would call a planetary accretion disk, at least the way it reads to me being "waste" the earth as we know it came after the light.

I don't see how you can reconcile that with this passage.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

If not the sun and the moon, then what possibly could those two great lights be?

Edit: Note, the stars also appear later than the Earth.

[whottt]

I can say with all certainty that religion pre-dated science and has served us far better for much longer.

I can say with all certainty that the oldest man made artifacts are almost univerally spiritual in nature...

I can look back in history and see no great atheistic civilization built upon the claim that this is all there is.


I can look at pretty much every culture, in evey region of the globe and see they all had some form of spiritual belief.


I can also look and see even science says we likely descended from 1 man.

The bible doesn't say how Adam was created, it just says he was created.

And we are on the verge of being able to make people from other people.

I can look and see every culture has some concept of other planes of existence, even science says dimensions exist now..

They didn't have the word dimension back then.

[whottt]

I don't see how you can reconcile that with this passage.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

If not the sun and the moon, then what possibly could those two great lights be?

Edit: Note, the stars also appear later than the Earth.

I reconcile that as the rotation of the earth, which is what causes night and day and the moon being captured by the gravity of earth.

The accretion disk probably was rotating, but that wouldn't mean much considering it would basically be a formless mass.

[Phenomanul]

The latest archeological finds surrounding the Red Sea crossing (across the Gulf of Aqaba) and the preservation of several key elements that can attest to the narrative of the 'Exodus flight' out of Egypt are pretty remarkable...

[Phineas J. Whoopee]

The latest archeological finds surrounding the Red Sea crossing (across the Gulf of Aqaba) and the preservation of several key elements that can attest to the narrative of the 'Exodus flight' out of Egypt are pretty remarkable...

I couldn't agree more.

[whottt]

To me being atheistic means we are the highest form of life, this is the highest plane of existence, I can look at the pattern of life, nature, the structure of the Universe and see clearly...there's always something bigger, and if there isn't, there will be. I mjean it's fact lesser dimensions exist...why can't higher ones?

If these people encountered a higher life form, they wouldn't call it a higher life form, they'd call it god.

[LnGrrrR]

To me being atheistic means we are the highest form of life, this is the highest plane of existence, I can look at the pattern of life, nature, the structure of the Universe and see clearly...there's always something bigger, and if there isn't, there will be. I mjean it's fact lesser dimensions exist...why can't higher ones?

If these people encountered a higher life form, they wouldn't call it a higher life form, they'd call it god.

To me, atheistic just means what it means. Not believing in any deity or supernatural being or groups of deities.

I am still somewhat 'spiritual', as in, I am moved by the amazing complexity of life and the universe.

[whottt]

Suppose we find out one day that this is a an experiment in creating a lesser dimension and we were in fact created by an extradimensional being...

What would you call that guy? What would you call what they did?


I know what they'd call it...and it'd sound Supernatural.


Anything we can't explain is supernatural, and there's a great deal we can't explain, it only becomes natural after we can.


What created us and how it was done, will probably the last question we answer. Until then, all aspects of the topic are Supernatural.

[LnGrrrR]

Suppose we find out one day that this is a an experiment in creating a lesser dimension and we were in fact created by an extradimensional being...

What would you call that guy? What would you call what they did?


I know what they'd call it...and it'd sound Supernatural.


Anything we can't explain is supernatural, and there's a great deal we can't explain, it only becomes natural after we can.


What created us and how it was done, will probably the last question we answer. Until then, all aspects of the topic are Supernatural.

Agreed.

[Wild Cobra]

Any translations from the oldest Bible?

How about Genisis 1:1:

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Any idea how many different ways it can be translated?

A breakdown:

In the beginning
re'shiyth (ray-sheeth')
the first, in place, time, order or rank (specifically, a firstfruit) -- beginning, chief(-est), first(-fruits, part, time), principal thing.

God
'elohiym (el-o-heem')
angels, exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), (very) great, judges, mighty.

created
bara' (baw-raw')
(absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes) -- choose, create (creator), cut down, dispatch, do, make (fat).
'eth (ayth)
self (but generally used to point out more definitely the object of a verb or preposition, even or namely) -- (as such unrepresented in English).

the heaven
shamayim (shaw-mah'-yim)
air, astrologer, heaven(-s).

and
'eth (ayth)
self (but generally used to point out more definitely the object of a verb or preposition, even or namely) -- (as such unrepresented in English).

the earth
'erets (eh'-rets)
the earth (at large, or par ively a land) -- common, country, earth, field, ground, land, natins, way, + wilderness, world.