Andrea Bustnani gets a $10 million a year extension

[da_suns_fan]

My mistake...I was confusing the 2001 draft with the 2000.

Looking at 2001, there were a LOT of plyers that turned into great players in the league..

2000 was the terrible draft.

I guess Jordan really did screw up.

[DPG21920]

Don't get sand in your vagina. If he suddenly starts pulling down 12 rebounds a game or magically s out Magic Johnson, he'll be closer too, but that's not reality. Based on his production, he's neither the best player from that draft, nor is he even close to being worth 10 million dollars a year, much less being extended a year before it's necessary.

If he tops 20 PPG, he will beat Roy in a stat by stat run down based on the ones you listed.

Points would be close. And ya, acting like someone who is a legit scorer with range and good %'s jumping from 15 to 20 is the same as comparing him jumping up to 12 boards (best in the NBA almost) and " ting out Magic Johnson". Good call

He will out rebound roy, shoot better from 3 and FT, out block him. Stats wise it will be close if you just do a score card.

Based on his production NO ONE SAID HE WAS THE BEST PLAYER. WTF is your point? That is not the argument. He is a top 4 player from the draft now and could easily jump to #2 if he keeps improving. If he goes over 20 PPG (which is not a stretch) he will be the 2nd best player (or arguable with Rondo).

Not worth it in your eyes, but when you look at his skill set and size, the contract is not that far off.

[Obstructed_View]

If he tops 20 PPG, he will beat Roy in a stat by stat run down based on the ones you listed.

Points would be close. And ya, acting like someone who is a legit scorer with range and good %'s jumping from 15 to 20 is the same as comparing him jumping up to 12 boards (best in the NBA almost) and " ting out Magic Johnson". Good call

Based on his production NO ONE SAID HE WAS THE BEST PLAYER. WTF is your point? That is not the argument. He is a top 4 player from the draft now and could easily jump to #2 if he keeps improving. If he goes over 20 PPG (which is not a stretch) he will be the 2nd best player (or arguable with Rondo).

Not worth it in your eyes, but when you look at his skill set and size, the contract is not that far off.

So if he increases his point production by 25 percent and doubles his rebounding, he has a chance of being worth what they're paying him. Wow, what was I thinking? Great signing, Toronto! All we need to do now is pray that he suddenly becomes something he's never been in his career.

Paying guys on what you hope they become is what lottery teams are made of.

Signing a guy to a big extension because he was the first pick in a bad draft is called throwing good money after bad.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Also, Roy, Gay, Rondo, Aldridge. 4 guys already better than him. If Foye stops getting injured and plays to his potential, Bargnani could very well be out of that top 5. It's not a guarantee he's one of the top 5 players from that draft class.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

He is a top 4 player from the draft now

Aldridge, Gay, Roy, Rondo.

[DPG21920]

Don't get sand in your vagina. If he suddenly starts pulling down 12 rebounds a game or magically s out Magic Johnson, he'll be closer too, but that's not reality. Based on his production, he's neither the best player from that draft, nor is he even close to being worth 10 million dollars a year, much less being extended a year before it's necessary.

And I could swear someone DID say he was the best player in the draft, which means he's better than Roy, right?

Let me say this again: You do not pay a guy ten million dollars a year just because he was better than all but four other guys in a weak draft.

Doesn't change the fact he's not worth 10 million a year.

How good he is in comparison to other guys in the draft is not about how much money he is paid, it is about refuting the "bust" label.

No one said he was the best, it is obvious he is not. But he could be damn close.

I do not care where he got drafted, his unique size/scoring ability and progress means he is worth somewhere close to his current extension imo when you compare the other bigs making close to that (say from 8.5 and up...).

It in no way effects Bosh re signing and could end being a steal. Even if he does not grow any more, but continues to shoot 45% FG, 40% 3PT, 83% FT, while scoring 15 PPG / 5+REB / 1+ BLKs, 10M won't be a ridiculous contract. It would be dissapointing if that happens from a management standpoint, and if they knew for sure that is all they would get they would probably have offered him 7M any ways which would be fair IMO. That is not that bad from a risk stand point on a young player like him.

[DPG21920]

Also, Roy, Gay, Rondo, Aldridge. 4 guys already better than him. If Foye stops getting injured and plays to his potential, Bargnani could very well be out of that top 5. It's not a guarantee he's one of the top 5 players from that draft class.

Gay and Aldridge? You cannot say with any kind of certainty that they are better than Bargs. The numbers are very close.

It is not a guarantee, but likely imo. He is definitely not a bust. If all the players you mention get better and he does not, no question he will be out. If he gets better along with them, he has just as much, if not more talent and he will be the best scorer.

[Bob Lanier]

at Obstructed_View going hyper-aggro and then responding to criticism with "don't get sand in your vagina."

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Even if he does not grow any more, but continues to shoot 45% FG, 40% 3PT, 83% FT, while scoring 15 PPG / 5+REB / 1+ BLKs, 10M won't be a ridiculous contract.

If this were a shooting guard then yes, but your center shouldn't be shooting 45% and not even grabbing 6 rebounds. Yes I know that makes him a unique player, but it doesn't win basketball games.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Gay and Aldridge? You cannot say with any kind of certainty that they are better than Bargs. The numbers are very close.

Bustnani:
15.4 points, 5.3 boards, 1.2 blocks, 45% from the field, 83% from the line

Aldridge:
18.1 points, 7.5 boards, 1.0 blocks, 48% from the field, 78% from the line

And almost all of those stats are just offensive stats. Aldridge is also a better defender, and he plays on a winning team. Aldridge > macaroni

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Also, if Gay and Aldridge has Jose Calderon at point, they would put up way better numbers than they do. A great amount of Bargnani's points are created by Calderon.

[DPG21920]

So if he increases his point production by 25 percent and doubles his rebounding, he has a chance of being worth what they're paying him. Wow, what was I thinking? Great signing, Toronto! All we need to do now is pray that he suddenly becomes something he's never been in his career.

Paying guys on what you hope they become is what lottery teams are made of.

Signing a guy to a big extension because he was the first pick in a bad draft is called throwing good money after bad.

Once again what the are you talking about? Was it you that said you did not know who Mason was? If so, I know you could not possibly have watched Bargs play, or anyone outside the Spurs for that matter with any kind of regularity. So how can you speak about his game so matter of factly?

Yes, he can be a 20 PPG scorer and it would not be a stretch at all. At All. Many players make that jump, and he has already averaged that in spurts.

Double his rebounding why would he have to do that? So you are saying 20/11 is only worth 10M? GTFO. If he averages 20 PPG and keeps his rebounding the same (along with his efficient scoring %'s from the field, 3 and the FT line) along with keeping his blocks over 1 like he is now, 10M is a steal.

Once again, you do not know what you are talking about. Pray that he becomes something he has never been in his 3 year career? A scorer. That is is it. He has always scored. You are expecting him to be Duncan and he is not. He is a flat our scorer with some other tools (decent post defense, abil y to run/space the floor and block some shots).

Evaluate him on what he is, not what you think a guy making 20M should be. He makes 10M. So yes, even if nothing else changes but he goes from 15 to 20 PPG, he will be worth it.

[DPG21920]

Bustnani:
15.4 points, 5.3 boards, 1.2 blocks, 45% from the field, 83% from the line

Aldridge:
18.1 points, 7.5 boards, 1.0 blocks, 48% from the field, 78% from the line

And almost all of those stats are just offensive stats. Aldridge is also a better defender, and he plays on a winning team. Aldridge > macaroni

What about 3PT %? What about minutes played? You cannot say it is not good to have your center shooting 45%...He is not used like a traditional center. He shoots away from the basket.

Once again you are comparing him against something he is not.

[DPG21920]

Also, if Gay and Aldridge has Jose Calderon at point, they would put up way better numbers than they do. A great amount of Bargnani's points are created by Calderon.

If Gay and Aldridge had Bosh, there numbers would go down because Bosh would dominate and get the looks.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

He shoots away from the basket.

That's his choice. It's not like god hypnotized him into only being able to shoot jumpers, he chooses to take outside shots because he's too much of a puss to go inside. Therefore that makes him a worse player.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

If Gay and Aldridge had Bosh, there numbers would go down because Bosh would dominate and get the looks.

Same could be said for Brandon Roy and Orange Juice Mayonnaise.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

You cannot say it is not good to have your center shooting 45%.

Why not? I thought the whole point of giving your big man the ball is so he can shoot a high percentage shot.

[DPG21920]

That's his choice. It's not like god hypnotized him into only being able to shoot jumpers, he chooses to take outside shots because he's too much of a puss to go inside. Therefore that makes him a worse player.

So all players that play inside are better than guys outside? Dumb logic. It is his choice and that is who he is.

It is a of a lot easier to teach a guy with size and athleticism to go inside (see Dirk) than it is to take a guy and teach him to have range. Bargs has more offensive skill than all of the guys in the draft or very close to it.

Bargs is not as bad inside as some make him out to be. He is a strong dunker and his atheltic. He should do it more, but he is starting to mix it up a little bit.

I am not going to change anyone's mind and only time will tell. But my point remains that for his skill/potential/what he has already accomplished, I do not think 10M is that far off what is fair.

[Obstructed_View]

Once again what the are you talking about? Was it you that said you did not know who Mason was? If so, I know you could not possibly have watched Bargs play, or anyone outside the Spurs for that matter with any kind of regularity. So how can you speak about his game so matter of factly?

Double his rebounding why would he have to do that? So you are saying 20/11 is only worth 10M? GTFO. If he averages 20 PPG and keeps his rebounding the same (along with his efficient scoring %'s from the field, 3 and the FT line) along with keeping his blocks over 1 like he is now, 10M is a steal.

I wouldn't speak about players I don't know, or else I wouldn't admit that I didn't know who Roger Mason was. When you find me posting my opinions about Roger Mason before I knew who he was be sure and let me know. Until then, try to stay on topic. Besides, a guy who was drafted in the second round, played three games with his team, was traded and cut is not the same as a guy who was the number one pick in the draft.

I'm not the one saying a guy isn't overpaid because it's possible that he might improve his scoring by five points per game. My point, once again: The Raptors could have waited to see how he progressed during the upcoming season and paid him roughly the same amount. The only way this signing isn't premature is if he blows up into a 15-20 million a year player this season.

Evaluate him on what he is.

Good advice. Maybe you should take it.

[DPG21920]

Why not? I thought the whole point of giving your big man the ball is so he can shoot a high percentage shot.

Because when you factor in his production from 3, his true shooting percentage is 56%, which is pretty high percentage. That is why. Like I said, compare his stats in true light, not just on the surface.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

So all players that play inside are better than guys outside?

Big men that play inside have certainly been on a lot more championship teams than big men who play outside.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Evaluate him on what he is

A poor man's Mehmet Okur.

[DPG21920]

I wouldn't speak about players I don't know, or else I wouldn't admit that I didn't know who Roger Mason was. When you find me posting my opinions about Roger Mason before I knew who he was be sure and let me know. Until then, try to stay on topic. Besides, a guy who was drafted in the second round, played three games with his team, was traded and cut is not the same as a guy who was the number one pick in the draft.

I'm not the one saying a guy isn't overpaid because it's possible that he might improve his scoring by five points per game. My point, once again: The Raptors could have waited to see how he progressed during the upcoming season and paid him roughly the same amount. The only way this signing isn't premature is if he blows up into a 15-20 million a year player this season.



Good advice. Maybe you should take it.

If that was not you saying you did not know who Mason was then I apologize. Point was that made it seem like you did not have league pass or watch other teams on a consistent basis.

You said if he increases his scoring by 25% (from 15 to 20) and doubles his rebounding (from 5.5 to 11) that he might be worth 10M. That is bull . I refuted it already and said even if he does not improve at all, but maintains, 10M would still not be that far off. If he does move to 20 PPG, which seems likely based on his growth, 10M is more than fair. If he improves anything else, 10M would be a steal.

You could definitely argue that it was premature, but that is not what you were doing the entire time.

You said:

1) He is a bust - not true
2) His signing would effect Bosh's contract - not true
3) He would have to score 20 PPG and average 11 rebounds to have the 10M maybe be fair.


But if you are saying it is just pre mature, you may have a point. They could have waited and it might turn out to be a bad move if he regresses in a major way. But I think they were banking on him taking that leap and wanted to lock him up cheaply. Lets see how it works out.

[DPG21920]

Big men that play inside have certainly been on a lot more championship teams than big men who play outside.

That is not the point. So any big man who does not have a championship and does not play inside is worse than bigs who play inside? So Dirk is worse than Al Jefferson? Okur is worse than Tyson Chandler?


He is never going to be the center piece to a le team, but rarely are guys that make 10M. There are plenty of guys making double that, with no rings and no ability to get better.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

That is not the point. So any big man who does not have a championship and does not play inside is worse than bigs who play inside? So Dirk is worse than Al Jefferson? Okur is worse than Tyson Chandler?

Okur has a championship son.


And if I were building a team today, I'd take Al Jefferson over Dirk.