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That'd suck major ass for Dallas, Orlando playing dirty.
First of all, they are totally separate transactions. Expecting them to be your buddy because you gave them a trade exception is re ed. That would be like a Magic fan whining that the Mavs didn't sign Gortat to a smaller offer sheet after they helped Dallas acquire Matrix.
Speaking of re ed, the dumbest ing thing a team could do is match quickly. You wait til one tic before midnight to match a RFA, the other GMs remember that and think twice before going after your RFAs, and most won't even have the balls to try it. Everyone knew the Magic were going to do this, which is why going after Gortat was a risk. The Mavs threw way too much money at him because ending up with nothing at the end of the signing period would be worse than having another overpaid center.
That'd suck major ass for Dallas, Orlando playing dirty.
D Lord with some knowledge at d-b.com which, for the time being, soothes the Ghaz's soul:
Kids ...kids ...kids ...what have fish and I taught you all these years? "Don't believe everything someone says on an internet board, without something to back it up." Many of you have made us proud in your reactions here to this silliness over Gortat, but here's a longer analysis for those of you behind the curve.
Let's break down this "ch 6 in Orlando said it" story. Point by point, here's what we're seeing.
1. Friday on a Magic chat forum, a brand new poster opens an account and says the Magic are signing Bass. Claims he has inside info. It precedes the signing getting out from the media, so when they get confirmation within an hour or less, he's acclaimed as a genuine insider. Discussion and praise ensues.
2. Saturday he comes back again, cites his earlier prediction as his bona fides of being a genuine insider, and says he knows for a fact Gortat will be matched and that it will be announced Monday. Sources? None. Can't say. Discussion and praise ensues.
3. Sunday he comes back again and trumpets that he just heard on the ch 6 news in Orlando that the Magic will match on Monday, thereby validating his prediction. Oddly, no one else in Orlando heard the story, but no biggie for most. Discussion and praise ensues.
4. Someone goes from there to the realGM boards and shares the news on the GENERAL NBA board. The same thing happens on the realGM Orlando board. The report is (and this is an important distinction): "someone on a Magic chat forum saw a ch 6 news item saying Gortat would be matched on Monday." Discussion and praise ensues.
5. People now see 3 or more separate forum discussions going and jump to a conclusion: a bunch of people in Orlando saw this item on the news and are talking about it. It must certainly be a fact, they think. But the reality is this: one guy (not coincidentally, the one who had a vested interest) SAID he saw it. A bunch of people reacted and passed the tale along. Or maybe he is the one passing the tale along from one forum to another.
6. Has anything been announced by the Magic? No.
7. Is it on ESPN crawl? No.
8. Is it on ESPN news? No.
9. Is it on ESPN.com? No. I'd ask Marc Stein, but he'd kill me for asking something so dumb, I think. :-)
10. Is it on the Orlando Sentinel website? No.
11. Is it on the ch 6 Orlando site? No. You can even pull up their list of sports stories of the day, and there's nothing pertaining to Gortat.
It's also interesting that at one point in the conversation, the tale got expanded to say the breaking TV news report also said Barnes and Ratliff were going to be signed. Really!?!?
SmokeMaxx on the linked page below (post #81) also details his forum-by-forum digging, and he essentially came back with the same observations I did. A gold star to him for that hard work, too!!!! (Fish, buy that guy a front page mention.)
http://dallasbasketballdo...u.com/topic/29348?page=9
Now let me add one other crucial point - we can't PROVE nothing might happen, because even if the internet stuff is BS (and I see nothing to make me think it's valid), there are still two options and one of them is that Gortat gets matched. Nothing matters until Orlando puts their signature on a match, or until they decline to match. The deadline is Wednesday. Anything can happen.
To review a few facts on the idea in general:
1. If Gortat gets matched, they can't turn around and trade him to another suitor anytime soon. They must keep him until at least Dec 15, well after the season starts and after all the teams have set their rosters. Then they can only trade him to a team he approves, and it can't be Dallas. (Those limits last for a year.)
2. In a trade, base year issues won't be in play, because Orlando has a trade exception. It would work just like a regular trade.
3. The rationale floated by Magic fans is: "Orlando would be averse to paying that much salary to Gortat, but if they trade him that's not an issue." Not exactly true. The problem is, they'd still end up getting back at least $5M-ish and maybe more like $6M in trade-matching salary in such a trade, all of it taxable.
4. The other team will have to be a team that (a) wants MG, (b) is willing to pay him $34M over 5 years, and (c) will ALSO give up $5M in players that Orlando wants. Is there such a team with players that Orlando would gladly take, in that price range, that would also want MG? I can envision Houston having a degree of interest depending on Yao's long-term prognosis; but which $5-6M of players makes sense for both teams to move from HOU to ORL in such a deal?
5. The Mavs have been quite confident - per Sefko, who is a very solid reporter - they'll get Gortat. Orlando certainly has every right to match, and they also have the option to wait until the last minute either way, but do we think these GMs don't talk? Do we think Donnie/Cuban would have the rug pulled out from under them unexpectedly? If Smith is going to match, or if it's at least possible, I suspect that info would have been conveyed privately.
FROM A PURELY LOGICAL STANDPOINT: Except in sign-and-trade situations, teams don't tend to sign a player they don't intend to keep. Too much can go wrong between the signing and the trade to make that backfire badly. And I don't see any way that the Magic can justify almost $6M per year to a player who will be buried behind Howard. In addition, what's the market for Gortat at $34M? I see one possible team (Houston) that might be interested if the price wasn't too high, and that one is nothing better than a longshot. For tthose reasons, I think they'll pass.
I also find illuminating some comments Smith made Friday. After signing Bass, he was asked if that precluded Gortat. As the Orlando paper put it ...
Smith said the two deals don't necessarily have to do with each other. He also said he's figured out what he's going to do, but said he was "still working on a few other things ...Until those things transpire, it's a little bit premature for us to get into what we're going to do and what we're not going to do."
Have the other things transpired? No way. Orlando has done nothing new since Bass. Based on that, I take that as further confirmation that this is just one of those faux-insiders playing with people's reactions on the internet. And I still am inclined to think that in a few days, Gortat will be a Mav.
To me, Smith is playing the angles on other free agents, trying to get them all lined up before he declines to match Gortat. That's why he is delaying and why he won't talk about his plans. You get a better deal when you negotiate from strength, and he knows it.
Either way, give it a few days and we'll see what happens. Until then, it's just unknowable without hearing something from the Magic themsleves.
http://dallasbasketballdotcom.yuku.c...YI-update.html
Sounds like someone thinks he's king of the internets.Kids ...kids ...kids ...what have fish and I taught you all these years?
David Lord aside, this page:
http://orlandomagiczone.com/eve/foru...m/f/8891029871
Seems to be the hub of all things read/seen on teh Inertnets.
I'm loving all the Magic s on that board plotting to spread out and hit up Mavs boards with their great "news". I hope they get their stuffed back in their faces if it isn't true.
What are you going to do? Ask the Spurs to beat them worse than they already would have?
no Florida team ed Dallas Mavs over for a le, Mavs just couldn't win, don't you know anything about basketball. Are Mav fans really that depressed with the players on the team including Dirk for not winning in 2006 they have to blame the other team
nah we were robbedno Florida team ed Dallas Mavs over for a le, Mavs just couldn't win, don't you know anything about basketball. Are Mav fans really that depressed with the players on the team including Dirk for not winning in 2006 they have to blame the other team
I haven't really followed all the Gortat drama, but when is the deadline for the Magic to match the Mavs' offer?
I don't know how this is going to unfold, but to even think that Orlando 'owes' the Mavs anything is re ed. Bass was a UFA, and while they got a trade exception with the Matrix, they actually made possible for Dallas to get him.
Ummm bullcrap...I'm sure Toronto would have done that deal without including Orlando. Also, Cuban wouldn't have allowed Bass to sign with them unless there was some under the table statement that Gortat was not going to be matched.
If this comes to fruition priority #1 needs to be to get even....maybe not this year but I'm sure eventually Cuban will get the last laugh.
It was more convenient for Toronto to do it with a S&T so they could still use the MLE. In exchange, Orlando received a trade exception. Mavs also got what they wanted in Marion. I think all sides came out even.
And Bass was a Unrestricted Free Agent. Cuban had no authority to allow or disallow anything.
Let's see...9am on the East Coast and not a single peep about this bull story.
ESPN does work around the clock and have been doing live casts since 6am ET.
Allow or disallow aside, he had more than enough power and money to re-up Bass if he wanted to. Mavs were offering 3.5 million and he wound up getting 4. I don't think that 500k was a point of contention for Cuban. He could have done it if he wanted to.
mavsfan1000 needs to be shot in the ing face
It's really not a big deal whether Mavs can or cannot get Gortat. That guy only played several decent minutes last season and his stats are not even close to MLE level, but Donnie was so stupid as to burn our MLE on that guy expecting him to replace Damp as our starting center. Gortat may become a decent player when his experience grows bigger in a couple seasons, but the current Gortat is definitely not enough to play at a level above Damp's. I'm afraid Gortat will turn out a scrub and get traded in mid season as Diop's case, hopefully not though.
Sure, but he didn't. He gambled that he would get Gortat, and his bet might still pay off. But it's a risky bet. He obviously believes Gortat is a much bigger improvement over Bass, or he would have resigned Bass and called it a day.
Now Bass is gone though, and there's nothing Mark can do about it.
I would also add, it's not always about money. Maybe Bass wanted to look for greener pastures, too. When you're unrestricted you can pretty much do whatever you want.
to me that report is bogus but I dont see Orlando matching for a few reasons.
IMO Bass wouldnt have signed with Magic if he knew that they were going to resign Gorat bc his minutes would be severely limited Im sure he was going to get backup minutes at PF and C. As it already stands there isnt many minutes behind Lewis and Howard. I'd expect about 25 max min a night for Bass but with Gortat in the mix that number could drop to 15 min. I'm sure Bass had a talk with ORL about them resigning Gortat and if they were, i dont think he would have gone to ORL bc one of his biggest grips in dallas was minutes
What I think you need to understand is that if they do indeed match Gortat is most likely NOT to keep him, but to deal him in a trade that gives Orlando something in exchange for his contract.
1st they can't trade till Dec. 2nd who is going to take him at that time? They can't trade with the Mavs....Rockets didnt want to pay that much for him, only offered 3.5mil, plus they aint gonna give Orlando Battier or any other good player. AND even if you trade you still take salary back. Only reason you match is if you want to keep him...cause there's a good chance he aint going no where.
Plus I didn't even mention injuries or if he plays poorly
Big man are a coveted commodity. Look at the contract Varejao got for reference. Like I said, the only reason I see them matching is if they already have a trade in place with some other team.1st they can't trade till Dec. 2nd who is going to take him at that time? They can't trade with the Mavs....Rockets didnt want to pay that much for him, only offered 3.5mil, plus they aint gonna give Orlando Battier or any other good player. AND even if you trade you still take salary back. Only reason you match is if you want to keep him...cause there's a good chance he aint going no where.
Plus I didn't even mention injuries or if he plays poorly
As far as getting contracts in return, it's not really a problem. They can simply rent a couple players until midseason and dump them then. The luxury tax is not calculated until the end of the season.
so eight pages later and still no official report or link validating any of this. nice.
Gortat's good, I don't know what's so hard to get about that. It shouldn't be held against him that he was backing up the best center in the world.
I've seen many diop comparions thrown around and its ing weak! Diop's never had a better PER/rebound rate than Gortat had last year and at the very least, Gortat isn't scared of the ing rim.
In a world where Rashard mutha in Lewis is getting the max, Hedo Turkoglu is getting 5 years/50+, Bynum contract... McDyess/Wallace getting MLE etc etc, Gortat is a MLE caliber player
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