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They already exempted themselves within the bill. Kinda nice touch, don't you think?You think Congress will elect the government option for themselves. That will be the day
It's really frustrating how people believe Government is the answer.
They already exempted themselves within the bill. Kinda nice touch, don't you think?You think Congress will elect the government option for themselves. That will be the day
This is a problem on your part. You didn't shop around. Last time I had X-Rays and cavities filled, it was $58. It's probably about $300 for two cavities now. Why do you expect the insurance to pay an inflated rate?
Next time, shop around. I do. I have dental available, but I opt out. It's cheaper for me to pay out of pocket than the insurance rates, but again... I shop around. And as a cash paying client, they don't have to take the man-hours to bill insurance. Cash payers do pay less when they shop around.
That's a procedure that is ridiculous to mandate. May as well mandate that insurance pays for woman's breast enhancements too.
I think he meant that next time, because you have a financial stake in the game, that maybe you'll shop around for a better price.
Can you sue them if they -up? Do they pay the same insurance premiums? Are they mandated by their government to have the same quality checks that we do?
Want to have cheaper medical here. Get some serious tort reform for starters.
TX has tort reform, didn't lower anybody's medical bills, only ed over victims and enriched the docs.
It's WC, so of course he's for ing over citizens and consumers to the benefit of the rich and corps.
Wealth redistribution here we come.
Who's not going to want free health care paid for them by the people who are successful and wealthy.
Yep, looks like I'll be paying for hundreds of people's health care. Socialist health care here we come! There are limited amount of doctors in this country, and to believe that health care won't be rationed after this partisan socialist bill passes is simply naive.
My spouses' colleagues are already talking about cutting their hours, since they will be getting taxed to death, and paying for the health care.
Rationing here we come, and if you don't think it's true good luck when you have a serious illness and you have to wait in line to see a Doctor who (based on their pay cuts, medicare cuts, and the new health care tax) will not be staying late to see you.
Welcome to Obamacare where the rich get plowed for being successful and the rest applaud free healthcare --that will be nowhere near the quality they were used too.
Here's what I don't get.
If you feel that way, do you also feel the same about police and fire departments? That it would be fair to pay for certain levels of coverage? I'm guessing now, but I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Have fun standing in line or getting on waiting lists for good Doctors to see you. You think Doctors who go through college, then 4 years medical school, then residency and internship all the while taking out hundreds of thousands of dollars of loans should give you free health care for 30 cents on the dollar?
Well, with this free Obama socialist health care, I can guarantee you, you will be waiting in line for your health care. I also know my spouse and colleagues will begin cutting their hours and services because of this government run health care.
And, I'm sure the very good doctors would want to opt out of the Government plan since it will be cheaper and not pay as much. You get what you pay for or shall I say you get what the rich have paid for for you!
America will never be the same. Hope you don't come down with a terminal disease.
I thought today's Daily Show segment on "socialized medicine" was tone perfect, if also fact-free. It made me laugh.
You won't be laughing when you or a loved one has to be put on a waiting list to see a doctor. Book it.
If you don't believe me why don't you research how many doctors we have in the US? Than calculate all the free health care people will be getting and now you tell me if it's ridiculous to think health care will be rationed out like the socialists do.
This has to do with supply and demand. Lastly, do you think an MD would prefer to see a government run health care plan in his office or a private insurer? Demand will be high and I guarantee you, the MD will not chooses the government run plan. Quan y does not mean quality.
I already get upset just having to wait 20 minutes. I cannot imagine having to wait 20 weeks!You won't be laughing when you or a loved one has to be put on a waiting list to see a doctor. Book it.
If you don't believe me why don't you research how many doctors we have in the US? Than calculate all the free health care people will be getting and now you tell me if it's ridiculous to think health care will be rationed out like the socialists do.
This has to do with supply and demand. Lastly, do you think an MD would prefer to see a government run health care plan in his office or a private insurer? Demand will be high and I guarantee you, the MD will not chooses the government run plan. Quan y does not mean quality.
Oh, so I shouldn't laugh now?You won't be laughing when you or a loved one has to be put on a waiting list to see a doctor. Book it.
If you've already done your homework why not share it with all of us? Sending me home to do my own homework is most inexpeditious, if you are already a professor of it.
Don't hoard the knowledge, Spursmania; please favor us with more of your impressions.
I agree with you that any proposed reform will probably tend to reinforce a multi-tiered health care system. Some animals are just more equal than others.
Don't pre-assume things. This has been my 7th different dentist in 10 years. I HAVE shopped around and nobody gave me an estimate under $800.
It's an inflated price no matter where you go over here. About 5 years ago I had a dentist that would charge me $100 per cavity if I paid out of pocket. I fixed a couple of them with him, but then he claimed I had half a dozen cavities, which I most definitely didn't have (according to every other dentist I've seen since).
So ten years later, I'm still trying to find a reliable and affordable dentist here in the northeast. Considering my wife is on the same boat as me, and my inlaws that live in the valley and go to Mexico because they can't afford the US dentist, I have the impression it's a fairly common occurence.
I'm not arguing wether the mandate is a good thing or not. I would actually agree it's not. My point of contention is that if there is a mandate, the insurance companies should obey it, instead of clinging into loopholes to maximize their bottom line. It's not like they pass the savings down to the consumer.
We've gone through this before with you, and you know that I'm a supporter of tort reform. But that alone is not enough, as seen in Texas. You also need to either regulate or reform both insurance companies and big pharma.
As long as they care more about their bottom line and investors than to provide fair and reasonable care nothing is going to change.
OK, then I will assume that your area is one where the free market of dentistry has been killed by regulations. So many dentists have left private practice, or something else occurred reducing the supply of dentists to the population.
I'm glad it's not that bad in Oregon yet.
Well, since it will be free, I guess they can't complain.
Those of us with medical connections will never have a problem being seen. But I guess since we're the only ones paying for the health care reform via the surtax, I won't feel too bad about it.
I'd rather laugh away at your ignorance. You know what they say ignorance is bliss. Afterall, I won't be the one on a waiting list.Oh, so I shouldn't laugh now?
If you've already done your homework why not share it with all of us? Sending me home to do my own homework is most inexpeditious, if you are already a professor of it.
Don't hoard the knowledge, Spursmania; please favor us with more of your impressions.
I agree with you that any proposed reform will probably tend to reinforce a multi-tiered health care system. Some animals are just more equal than others.
Actually, my point of contention is that free market is what got us in this hole.
Now, I don't necessarily think that a competing free insurance is the only answer, but I do see how it would drive costs down. It's either that or capping profits, IMHO.
LOL @ the waiting list fearmongering.I'd rather laugh away at your ignorance. You know what they say ignorance is bliss. Afterall, I won't be the one on a waiting list.
I'm actually willing to bet you've never lived in a country with a mixed (free public, paid private) healthcare system and used it. Am I correct?
Incorrect, I have lived in Europe for ten years of my life. Germany and France.
So exactly what waiting lines are you talking about? Actually the cost of seeing a doctor paying out of pocket is ridiculously low compared to the US, not to mention they gladly spend more than the 30 seconds you see the average US doctor.
I am not fearmongering, but rather laying out a simple truth. Do you ever have to wait for an appointment and/or make one ahead of time? The AMA has already articulated the shortge of physicians we will have, and the need for more physicians due to the demand we will be seeing.
I do agree that Healthcare reform is needed. However, the way Congress is burdening only the wealthiest Americans with a surtax to pay for health care reform is socialistic. If all Americans want this reform, then all should have to pay a tax to cover their load. Would you like to pay 45% of your taxes for the rest of us?
At least in Germany, everybody is required to pay into a medical insurance system. But, I would hardly call it the highest quality of healthcare available that's for sure. My friend's brother died because they misdiagnosed his cancer read. Moreover, I didn't get an epidural when delivering my fist child. I hardly call that state of the art health care.
I am talking about the wait lines you will see in the US.
When's the last time you went to see a DR? I went to my pediatrician a month ago, 3 hours! And that was after waiting a few days for an appointment. If you believe healthcare will only get better you are in for a disappointment.
Your cost may go down a bit, but your quality of care will go down much more drastically. A vast and sweeping reform like this needs to take into account all participants. Obama's proposal hardly does that. He's trying to get it passed quickly without any open dialogue or transparent debates. As a result, it will be a partisan bill, and as written will destroy the greatest free choice health care system in the world.
Health care is never going to be cheap, so drop that fantasy world. Students don't go to school until their almost 30 and take out massive loans to get paid 40k a year. It is a very specialized field and it isn't surprising at all that medicine costs what it does. The problem is people want bleeding edge technology without the costs. Well, high tech plastics, electronics, $4 million dollar MRI machines and so forth have to get paid somehow. X-rays are so routine now, but they cost a fortune to maintain, use, and buy in the first place.
Socialized medicine looks good on paper because taxes are inevitable and most people don't realize that they are just paying into their own health care through those taxes (or paying for someone elses).
The whole thing is a very tricky situation. Is health care even a vital need, or a luxury? We've doubled/tripled our life expectancy through expensive technology. Most animals get through the majority of their adulthood without needing health care. Can people? Protecting people from crime and fire is different than from disease. Crime can be stopped by underpaid and unskilled workers. Same with fire. Health? Not so much.
There is a wealth of issues at stake.
If the government has a stake in health care, do they have an implied right to restrict things like transfats, smoking, alcohol?
What are solutions to an industry with massive demand and little supply?
How do you draw the line between luxury and necessary health care? Dental cleanings? Cavities? What is considered cosmetic and what is necessary?
What is the cost?
Who bears the burden?
Is this even ethical?
By the way, I am of the probably minority that thinks health care by and large, is a luxury good. People are spoiled
I think government should only bear the cost of emergency medicine. All routine check-ups, dentistry work, vision/hearing problems, fractures, disease should be paid by those who can afford it.
You know, where do you draw the line? Poverty is sad, the class gap is sad, but that's life. You can't artificially prop them up, it just doesn't work. Time and time again, government has tried to close this gap and failed every time. Like it or not, humans operate on capitalistc greed.
All excellent points. I wish there were an easy answer.
But I will say this, total health care reformation in the middle of a recession that will cost 1 trillion dollars over the next ten years doesn't seem like the answer to me. We should at least take care of the economy first before we add on to our already bloated debt with a health care proposal that we're not even sure will work and will cost at least 1 Trillion dollars over the next ten years. And, more often times than not, the programs end up costing more than originally projected.
I really couldn't agree with you more. I strongly believe health care is not a right but a privilege. By the way, the government already provides emergency health care to all. People cannot be turned away at ER's.
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