Curious about the Odom situation...

[YellowFever]

Being a Lakers fan, I'd like it if Odom signs with the Lakers but for the sake of this thread I'll try to be as impartial as possible.

It's obvious that the Lakers presented Odom with the best deal possible in his current situation.

Miami offered 36 million for 5 years.

Lakers offered anywhere between 27 to 30 million for 3 years.
(I just heard Buecher on the radio and he said 4 year @ 36 was never offered.)

Now if you break that down year to year it's obvious the Lakers offered more money. If he's looking for long term security (which is quite ridiculous since he already got over 50 million on his previous contract), I'd still take the 3 year deal since at the en of that deal he'll be 33 and can resign another 2-3 year contract or if he does really well, he can ask Buss for an extension.

If he takes the 5 year deal a just a little more money (over all), chances are at the end of that deal (when he's 35) no one will be crashing down his door to offer multiple year deals.

He could be waiting on Portland but it's highly unlikely that will be offering major bank since they need to resign Roy and Aldridge next year for major cash, and a couple of others a year after that.

If he's looking for a sign and trade, Buss is on record as saying that'll never happen. I mean he doen't want to spend the 10 million now! What makes Odom believe he'll spend the 10 million for whatever he can trade Odom for?

If any of you can tell me how he can make the money he hopes to make, I'd be really appreciative. And let's keep it real....no wild trades.

[JamStone]

At 33 years of age, nothing is guaranteed for an NBA player looking for another contract. Even if the five year deal is only a little bit more than a 3 year deal, that little bit more might be more than he that player could get three years from down at 33.

Take a look at some names that are currently in the 32-33 year age range and tell me their prospects of another multiple year NBA contract of any value more than a minimum contract are:

Antoine Walker, 32
Keith Van Horn, 33
Shareef Abdur Rahim, 32
Ron Mercer, 33
Tim Thomas, 32

Saying he can take the three year deal and sign another contract for 2-3 years is assuming a lot even if he does play well the next couple seasons. And, as you stated in your post, there was never a 4 year deal for $36 million. So, it appears more and more than the Lakers best offer was 3 years for $27 million. Not a bad deal. But Odom wants more years. I don't really blame either side as each wants what they want.

Odom might not get the money he wants. He might not get the number of years he wants. But, hey, that's all a part of negotiations. He's going to press for two more years and the Lakers will press to keep it at 3 at the most.It's not just about the money. Of course that's part of it. But, it's pretty clear Odom wants more than just the money. He wants appreciation and respect for being a key guy on the championship team in the form of 5 years on his contract. He wants the security of knowing he has five more years in the NBA, not just 3. He wants what he feels is a fair deal. Whether what he thinks is fair is actually realistically fair, that's another discussion. He wants to be paid the value of his performance in comparison to what other players on the Lakers are being paid, namely Bynum, Walton, Vujacic. It's not just the demand for $10 million per year. There are other factors besides just getting $10 million per.

[Allanon]

Well, with Utah re-signing Milsap, Portland really doesn't have many options outside of Odom and David Lee.

I'd bet good money Portland's already getting an offer together for Odom. Odom does offer veteran leadership that the Blazers need badly.

And on the flip-side, the Buss' are getting ready to bend over for Odom. Maybe not $50 million bent over but $40+ million woudl be my guess.

[Indazone]

Hate to say this but the Lakers lost more losing Odom than they did gaining Artest. Artest is still a blackhole on offense and a chucker from the three point line. Odom at least plays within the context of the Lakers offense.

I think Artest thinks he's greater than he really is.

[Indazone]

OH and I think Ariza is going to be better overall for the Rockets because at least the offense will flow smoothly.

[YellowFever]

At 33 years of age, nothing is guaranteed for an NBA player looking for another contract. Even if the five year deal is only a little bit more than a 3 year deal, that little bit more might be more than he that player could get three years from down at 33.

Take a look at some names that are currently in the 32-33 year age range and tell me their prospects of another multiple year NBA contract of any value more than a minimum contract are:

Antoine Walker, 32
Keith Van Horn, 33
Shareef Abdur Rahim, 32
Ron Mercer, 33
Tim Thomas, 32

Saying he can take the three year deal and sign another contract for 2-3 years is assuming a lot even if he does play well the next couple seasons. And, as you stated in your post, there was never a 4 year deal for $36 million. So, it appears more and more than the Lakers best offer was 3 years for $27 million. Not a bad deal. But Odom wants more years. I don't really blame either side as each wants what they want.

Odom might not get the money he wants. He might not get the number of years he wants. But, hey, that's all a part of negotiations. He's going to press for two more years and the Lakers will press to keep it at 3 at the most.It's not just about the money. Of course that's part of it. But, it's pretty clear Odom wants more than just the money. He wants appreciation and respect for being a key guy on the championship team in the form of 5 years on his contract. He wants the security of knowing he has five more years in the NBA, not just 3. He wants what he feels is a fair deal. Whether what he thinks is fair is actually realistically fair, that's another discussion. He wants to be paid the value of his performance in comparison to what other players on the Lakers are being paid, namely Bynum, Walton, Vujacic. It's not just the demand for $10 million per year. There are other factors besides just getting $10 million per.

Let me ask you this, Stone, would you take the 3 years and 27 million and maybe get a chance to make more after the three years or would you take the 5 years @ 34 (?) and just about kiss any chance you got to make more money goodbye?

If it was you or me, I can see taking the 5 @ 36 mil but we're talking about a guy that already made 50 mil plus in the last 5 years or so.

Yeah, Odom is probably worth more money than what he is being offered but this year, here and now, he's not being offered anything like he would be if it was 2 years ago.

No one here is looking at the Laker's side of the equation in this.

It's all good and well to debate this and say things like "it's only a few more million dollars" but bottom line is , and alot of people forget this, Buss is not a "mega-rich" guy like Cuban or Allen is.

He has been an absolute awesome owner but he is one of the "poorer" owners in this league and losing money to "keep the team together" is not an option for hm. When it comes to $$$ even that idiot across town, Donald Sterling, has alot more than Buss.

[JamStone]

It doesn't matter what either you or I would do in the same situation. This is Lamar Odom's decision and it's based on what he feels. I don't think it's all about the money. So your question on what either you or I would do is irrelevant because there are other factors involved that we don't know about that will help determine his decision. You are trying to make it mostly about money. I think many of us realize that it's not really all about the money. It might not even be mostly about the money. So, trying to come up with different scenarios of how Odom can maximize his potential money doesn't matter.

There are plenty of people on here, mainly Laker fans, that are looking at the Lakers' side of the equation in this. And even those fans who are criticizing the Lakers understand what's going on with respect to the Lakers playing hardball because Odom doesn't really have any other suitors (yet, waiting on Portland), so the Lakers would be in fact bidding against themselves. We get it. We understand. But, why endanger the team and risk losing a very important part of a championship team over a few million or another couple years, which by NBA standards isn't a huge deal, particularly when there are current players on the roster that are making money they don't deserve?

If you had followed some of the other threads, it's not about Buss not being mega rich or not being able to afford $10 million a year and the luxury implications. He can afford it. The Lakers generate revenue better than any other NBA franchise. They don't lose money. Buss can afford to pay Odom what he wants. But, it also goes back to Buss' decisions in the past that put him in this position. He signed off on two horrible contracts to Luke Walton and Sasha Vujacic. And, he gave into Andrew Bynum and agent David Lee in negotiations to give Bynum a ridiculous extension. That's not Lamar Odom's fault. That's the fault of Mitch and Buss. Why should Odom be affected by decisions he didn't make?

And please save the "Buss is one of the poorer owners in the league." Paying Odom wouldn't mean the Lakers would lose money. They make more money than any other team in the NBA. He can afford it. The Lakers can afford it. He just doesn't want to do it.

[Culburn369]

I'll side Buss here. He's delivered 9 NBA World Championships during his ownership of the Lakers.

[ElNono]

One other point is that Lamar might feel that he has a better chance of landing another good contract after this one by being a starter and playing significant minutes somewhere else being the number 2 option, instead of being the 6th man and 3rd wheel behind Kobe and Gasol on the Lakers.
He actually already had a bloated contract and made a good chunk of change. So I wouldn't be surprised if he leaves a little money on the table to get into a situation he feels more comfortable in.

[YellowFever]

It doesn't matter what either you or I would do in the same situation. This is Lamar Odom's decision and it's based on what he feels. I don't think it's all about the money. So your question on what either you or I would do is irrelevant because there are other factors involved that we don't know about that will help determine his decision. You are trying to make it mostly about money. I think many of us realize that it's not really all about the money. It might not even be mostly about the money. So, trying to come up with different scenarios of how Odom can maximize his potential money doesn't matter.

If it's not about the money, what is he waiting for? If he doesn't want to play for the Lakers, well he should let it be known that he's on the market, then.

No...we get total silence from his camp.

That 5 year @ 34 million is just about the best deal he's going to get (besides the Lakers offer), and if it's not only about the money, he would have signed it by now. If he's waiting on the Portland offer, it means he wants more........money.

Yeah...it's about the money.

There are plenty of people on here, mainly Laker fans, that are looking at the Lakers' side of the equation in this. And even those fans who are criticizing the Lakers understand what's going on with respect to the Lakers playing hardball because Odom doesn't really have any other suitors (yet, waiting on Portland), so the Lakers would be in fact bidding against themselves. We get it. We understand. But, why endanger the team and risk losing a very important part of a championship team over a few million or another couple years, which by NBA standards isn't a huge deal, particularly when there are current players on the roster that are making money they don't deserve?

Because whatever Buss decides to give Odom is doubled. And Gasol's contract is coming up next year. Look, Buss and Mitch made idiotic deals with some major scrubs and if they can take it back, I bet they'd give their left nut to get it back but that's not an option. What they have to do is figure out the best course of action to take from here on out. I understand that your reasoning is probably what Odom is reasoning as well but the cold hard facts are that nobody is offering you more than what Buss is offering you. Yeah, you can make the case it's undervalued by past (and maybe future) NBA standards but it sucks for Odom that he has to sign a contract this year, where the economy sucks and this is probably the best deal he is probably going to get.

Everybody and his brother knows that Odom is waiting for more offers to come in, especially that Portland one, and what he's actually doing is telling the Lakers to wait until he explores ALL options and if I'm in the Laker's FO, the only person I give that luxury to is Kobe. Lamar might be important to us but not that important.

If you had followed some of the other threads, it's not about Buss not being mega rich or not being able to afford $10 million a year and the luxury implications. He can afford it. The Lakers generate revenue better than any other NBA franchise. They don't lose money. Buss can afford to pay Odom what he wants. But, it also goes back to Buss' decisions in the past that put him in this position. He signed off on two horrible contracts to Luke Walton and Sasha Vujacic. And, he gave into Andrew Bynum and agent David Lee in negotiations to give Bynum a ridiculous extension. That's not Lamar Odom's fault. That's the fault of Mitch and Buss. Why should Odom be affected by decisions he didn't make?

And please save the "Buss is one of the poorer owners in the league." Paying Odom wouldn't mean the Lakers would lose money. They make more money than any other team in the NBA. He can afford it. The Lakers can afford it. He just doesn't want to do it.

Hey, I'm not doubting they are making more money than just about any other franchises. I'm just saying that every penny they pay out to Odom will be doubled and unlike alot of other owners, it's not revenue he can generate elsewhere. It's a matter of percentage.

Bottom line is, unlike some owners, the Lakers are not a toy for Buss to entertain himself with. It's his whole life. The family does not have any other business to fall back on.

The question should not be whether Buss can afford to or not but rather DOES he want to.
Others like Cuban or Allen, the couple extra million might be a little bump on the road, but it's not for Buss. That's what i wanted to convey.

And yeah, signing scrubs like Walton and Sasha is not Odom's fault. But, sadly, it looks like it'll have to be Odom that suffers for it.

It's very simple. When the company had alot of money, the scrubs will get more money. When the company doesn't have as much, everybody suffers.

It's just been one year but financially, the NBA changed alot. Or do you believe Sasha and Walton, if they signed now would be getting the same amount of money they were able to weasel out the Lakers when the times were good?
Of course, you don't.

Odom doesn't understand that.

[YellowFever]

One other point is that Lamar might feel that he has a better chance of landing another good contract after this one by being a starter and playing significant minutes somewhere else being the number 2 option, instead of being the 6th man and 3rd wheel behind Kobe and Gasol on the Lakers.
He actually already had a bloated contract and made a good chunk of change. So I wouldn't be surprised if he leaves a little money on the table to get into a situation he feels more comfortable in.

if this is true, Odom will be looking for short contracts, not longer ones.

[Cry Havoc]

Hey, I'm not doubting they are making more money than just about any other franchises. I'm just saying that every penny they pay out to Odom will be doubled and unlike alot of other owners, it's not revenue he can generate elsewhere. It's a matter of percentage.

How about a Lakers team that would be the favorites to win a championship vs. one without Odom that realistically could get knocked out in the Semis? Every Lakers fan here is talking about how they "can't afford" to overpay Odom. Can you afford to miss out on the Finals? Does that not make FAR more money (esp. a back to back) than the paltry extra sum Odom is asking for?

Bottom line is, unlike some owners, the Lakers are not a toy for Buss to entertain himself with. . It's his whole life. The family does not have any other business to fall back on

And that business profits more when you make a run to the Finals, yes?

The question should not be whether Buss can afford to or not but rather DOES he want to.
Others like Cuban or Allen, the couple extra million might be a little bump on the road, but it's not for Buss. That's what i wanted to convey.

How much of a bump would missing out on 8-14 playoff games be?

And yeah, signing scrubs like Walton and Sasha is not Odom's fault. But, sadly, it looks like it'll have to be Odom that suffers for it.

And you're blaming him for not liking that fact?

It's very simple. When the company had alot of money, the scrubs will get more money. When the company doesn't have as much, everybody suffers.

I guess in this case everyone = Odom and NO one else.

It's just been one year but financially, the NBA changed alot. Or do you believe Sasha and Walton, if they signed now would be getting the same amount of money they were able to weasel out the Lakers when the times were good?
Of course, you don't.

Do you think if they went back in time knowing the quality of player Luke and Sasha would be now, they would still have given them those contracts?

No. Don't be disingenuous. They signed them to big deals because they thought they were good players, not because "they had a lot of money".

Odom doesn't understand that.

You ignored most of what Jamstone posted. If there's someone here "not getting it", it's you. The most humorous thing is that Lakers fans actually feel like they're objectively viewing this issue, when that cannot be further from the truth.

If it's not about the money, what is he waiting for? If he doesn't want to play for the Lakers, well he should let it be known that he's on the market, then.

No...we get total silence from his camp.

Not everyone lives in a larger than life style like most celebrities in L.A. Maybe Odom is taking time to think things over? Maybe he doesn't want to come out and take a big steaming dump on his former employer (with or without good reason) because that's not the way he does things? Perhaps he's mulling his options over on whether he would rather make another le run or start and play a game that he clearly enjoys every night?

...

Maybe he's actually a pretty classy guy who doesn't want to talk to the media right away while he's deciding where to spend the next 3-5 years of his life?

I know. Laker fan collective heads just exploded. It's amazing how quickly you could turn on a guy who just helped you win a le (as your third best player). I'm sure you'd love him to kiss Buss's rings so you could say that he got knocked back in line, or alternatively start denouncing the entire Lakers organization and how horrible they are so you could paint him as the bad guy and tell him to GTFO, wouldn't you? Just amazing. For all the trash you're talking about him having no respect, you and Mr. Buss have precious little decency to show appreciation for someone that helped you regain your status as the pinnacle of the league.

[YellowFever]

How about a Lakers team that would be the favorites to win a championship vs. one without Odom that realistically could get knocked out in the Semis? Every Lakers fan here is talking about how they "can't afford" to overpay Odom. Can you afford to miss out on the Finals? Does that not make FAR more money (esp. a back to back) than the paltry extra sum Odom is asking for?



And that business profits more when you make a run to the Finals, yes?




How much of a bump would missing out on 8-14 playoff games be?



And you're blaming him for not liking that fact?



I guess in this case everyone = Odom and NO one else.



Do you think if they went back in time knowing the quality of player Luke and Sasha would be now, they would still have given them those contracts?

No. Don't be disingenuous. They signed them to big deals because they thought they were good players, not because "they had a lot of money".



You ignored most of what Jamstone posted. If there's someone here "not getting it", it's you. The most humorous thing is that Lakers fans actually feel like they're objectively viewing this issue, when that cannot be further from the truth.



Not everyone lives in a larger than life style like most celebrities in L.A. Maybe Odom is taking time to think things over? Maybe he doesn't want to come out and take a big steaming dump on his former employer (with or without good reason) because that's not the way he does things? Perhaps he's mulling his options over on whether he would rather make another le run or start and play a game that he clearly enjoys every night?

...

Maybe he's actually a pretty classy guy who doesn't want to talk to the media right away while he's deciding where to spend the next 3-5 years of his life?

I know. Laker fan collective heads just exploded. It's amazing how quickly you could turn on a guy who just helped you win a le (as your third best player). Just amazing. For all the trash you're talking about him having no respect, you and Mr. Buss have precious little decency to show appreciation for that.

I guess I can answer point by point but what good would that do.

For a fan base that always whines when others generalize about "Spur Fans", you guys sure do it alot also.

And when did I trash talk about Odom?

Answer that and maybe I'll answer your points.
Otherwise go to the flame war section where I understand you're a real star.

[Cry Havoc]

I guess I can answer point by point but what good would that do.

And when did I trash talk about Odom?

Answer that and maybe I'll answer your points.
Otherwise go to the flame war section where I understand you're a real star.

Odom doesn't understand that.

You're making him out to be the guy who "just doesn't get it" in a situation, which implies he's being selfish, while attempting to defend your team's business. Okay, so I withdraw that you are talking trash about Odom, and submit that you are instead scapegoating and implying negative things about him.

For a fan base that always whines when others generalize about "Spur Fans", you guys sure do it alot also.

So far, almost every Lakers fan I've read on this forum is ripping Odom for not signing and talking about ONLY the money while ignoring any other mitigating factors in this situation.

[La Peace]

Well I think the negotiation process has shown you how he will get what he wants. He isn't jumping at the first deal, he is posturing, he is gaging for interest all the while the Lakers FO becomes more frustrated/torn/uneasy about the situation.

Meanwhile the offer from the Lakers have risen over time and is now more than it was in the beginning. Lamar is just trying to get paid the best way he can.

[Cry Havoc]

Well I think the negotiation process has shown you how he will get what he wants. He isn't jumping at the first deal, he is posturing, he is gaging for interest all the while the Lakers FO becomes more frustrated/torn/uneasy about the situation.

Meanwhile the offer from the Lakers have risen over time and is now more than it was in the beginning. Lamar is just trying to get paid the best way he can.

This is something almost every other fanbase in the NBA knows as, "Negotiating a contract." It has apparently escaped the collective notice of Laker fan over the years.

[Kindergarten Cop]

I apologize if this has been posted already, but I haven't seen it:

http://twitter.com/LAIreland

Ric Bucher just said on our air that he thinks "the ship has sailed" on Lamar Odom being part of the Lakers. He thinks LA is moving on.


Of course this is one of Bucher's famed opinions, but I thought I'd share nonetheless.

[Wombatzu]

D-Wade is saying on twitter that he has some "good news" coming soon...

[La Peace]

He is switching From Nike Converse to Nike Jordan. Yay

[Kindergarten Cop]

D-Wade is saying on twitter that he has some "good news" coming soon...

I bet it's this:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131459

[YellowFever]

You're making him out to be the guy who "just doesn't get it" in a situation, which implies he's being selfish, while attempting to defend your team's business. Okay, so I withdraw that you are talking trash about Odom, and submit that you are instead scapegoating and implying negative things about him.



So far, almost every Lakers fan I've read on this forum is ripping Odom for not signing and talking about ONLY the money while ignoring any other mitigating factors in this situation.

I say he "just doesn't get it" because I see no other offers coming down the pike that can match the laker's offer.

Do you?

Yeah, he wants as much money as he can, , we all do.

He has the option of taking the best deal offered, even knowing it's not what he thinks he's worth. Or he can wait some more in hopes of being offered something better.

Oh yeah, by the way the best offer he received was just pulled off the table.

Does he really think the Lakers were going to wait and wait until he made a decision?

There comes a time when it's time to weigh your options and make a decision and that usually comes when you know that whoever you're dealing with is no longer going to budge.

Yeah it sucks that he became a free agent in a bad economic market but what does he want the Lakers to do?

Bid against themselves?


Bottom line is I'd love to have him back (and I haven't always felt that way) but not by over-paying him.

[YellowFever]

I apologize if this has been posted already, but I haven't seen it:

http://twitter.com/LAIreland

Ric Bucher just said on our air that he thinks "the ship has sailed" on Lamar Odom being part of the Lakers. He thinks LA is moving on.


Of course this is one of Bucher's famed opinions, but I thought I'd share nonetheless.

Yes, Ric "Kobe has played his last game in a laker's uniform" Bucher's opinion means alot to me right about now.

But in his defense, he did say it was his opinion only and should not be weighed against anything else.

[Kindergarten Cop]

I say he "just doesn't get it" because I see no other offers coming down the pike that can match the laker's offer.

Do you?

Are you assuming that the Lakers offered more than the 3yr/$27M contract? Bucher stated that that was the Lakers' best offer, not the 4yr/$36M rumored deal.

[Cry Havoc]

I say he "just doesn't get it" because I see no other offers coming down the pike that can match the laker's offer.

Do you?

Yeah, he wants as much money as he can, , we all do.

He has the option of taking the best deal offered, even knowing it's not what he thinks he's worth. Or he can wait some more in hopes of being offered something better.

Oh yeah, by the way the best offer he received was just pulled off the table.

Does he really think the Lakers were going to wait and wait until he made a decision?

There comes a time when it's time to weigh your options and make a decision and that usually comes when you know that whoever you're dealing with is no longer going to budge.

Yeah it sucks that he became a free agent in a bad economic market but what does he want the Lakers to do?

Bid against themselves?


Bottom line is I'd love to have him back (and I haven't always felt that way) but not by over-paying him.

Let me put this to you in no uncertain terms, since you apparently can read repeated posts by separate posters without "getting it".

IT'S

NOT

ALWAYS

ABOUT

THE

MONEY

Are we clear now? Does it need to be put more clearly than that?

[Kindergarten Cop]

Yes, Ric "Kobe has played his last game in a laker's uniform" Bucher's opinion means alot to me right about now.

But in his defense, he did say it was his opinion only and should not be weighed against anything else.

In fairness to Bucher, even Kobe Bryant stated that he had "played his last game in a Lakers' uniform" around that same time.

Wow, I can't believe I just came to the defense of Bucher.