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So why watch the NBA? why be enough of a fan to post on an NBA fan website to talk about basketball and the NBA?
Do your homework assface. Jordan played Drexler And the Blazers in 92.
Jordan beat a team with Vlade Divac as it's starting center in 1991. That 1991 team was Magic's Lakers minus Kareem who had already retired.
Talk matchups? How would Chicago have defended Kareem? Or Worthy? Or Byron Scott? The Lakers had a DPOY in Cooper who would have made Jordan work to get his.
Kareem would have killed Chicago, as would Bryon, as would Worthy, as would Cooper, as would Nixoon, as would Jamaal Wilkes.
Andthe idiot comparing the Nash Suns to the Showtime Lakers
So why watch the NBA? why be enough of a fan to post on an NBA fan website to talk about basketball and the NBA?
This revisonist history stuff is crap ...ok
Suns were the 2007 Champs (stern ruined it)
Spurs in 2004 were the champs (dfish ruined it)
Mavs in 2006 (Ref conspiracy ...though I admit some of it WAS bad)
Bulls in '94 (refs stole it)
Lakers in '89 (bad hamstrings ruined it)
Lakers in'86 (bad bounce ruined it the rim was too soft!!!)
Funnything is those supporting whining about refs are some of the same ones that ridicule the Suns beef with Stern.
In the NBA these things tend to even out unless you the Clippers but I hope Blake Griffin is the start of something new ...
Take the above mentioned Pistons Isiah got hurt at the WORST time in '88 ...yes he had one of the greatest Finals performances (and those that say Stockton was better are crazy ) but no doubt he wasnt the same in Game 7 ...Lakers win. The very next year the Lakers blow out 2 hamstrings in their staring backcourt by half-time of Game 1 after going 11-0 in the West playoffs ...both teams benefit from injury they split the les ...
Crying about woulda, coulda shoulda is for the weak ...do or do not there is no try, close doesnt count ...etc, etc.
The epicness of your ignorance is laughable ...
The NBA from 80 up until Mj's 1st le was the greatest run of basketballin NBA history ...
Mj was the GOAT by '91 but got beat by a Pistons team 3 years before that the Lakers and Celts whupped on after that ...
Magic made the NCAA or NBA Finals 10 times in 13 years winning 6 championships only Bill russell was a more consistent winner in NBA history ...
Not every team has won 15 les.....just saying
True, enough and the close ones hurt but years later we should be able to say the better team actually won. I think Mavs have the most legitimate gripe it's the one hose job that neutral fans would admit was a travesty ref wise ...
Even the suns/Stern debacle affected the series ...but i cant say for sure thatthe suns win a game 7 or were the BETTER team but they did get hosed ...
Even to this day i've never seen even a minute of the 2006 Finals.
I was in Europe and missed every single game, the only time my team ever made the Finals and I come back and find out that we lost a 2-0 lead and to also find out that it was the one of the worst officiated series ever.
While I agree that the 80's Lakers would have beaten the 90's Bulls, even the 96 Bulls, it should be noted by Byron Scott was taken totally out of the game in the 91 Finals by Jordan. You can contribute that to being tired guarding Jordan on the other end, causing him to miss the shots on the offensive end, and that the presence of Cooper would relieve Scott of that duty, but the fact was the Scott struggled mightily against the Bulls in the Finals when he had the chance.Do your homework assface. Jordan played Drexler And the Blazers in 92.
Jordan beat a team with Vlade Divac as it's starting center in 1991. That 1991 team was Magic's Lakers minus Kareem who had already retired.
Talk matchups? How would Chicago have defended Kareem? Or Worthy? Or Byron Scott? The Lakers had a DPOY in Cooper who would have made Jordan work to get his.
Kareem would have killed Chicago, as would Bryon, as would Worthy, as would Cooper, as would Nixoon, as would Jamaal Wilkes.
And
Pippen also gave Worthy fits. While Worthy was obviously bothered by his ankle in 91 Finals, and his age was starting to catch up with him, Pippen had not yet hit his peak in 91, he became a much much better player 93 onwards.
Anyways, the matchup, while favouring the Lakers, is not as lopsided as people make it out to be.
Jordan and Magic cancels each other out.
Pippen and Worthy cancels each other out.
Cooper can guard Jordan, while Pippen can guard Worthy/Magic, depending on the matchups.
Cartwright can guard Kareem to some extent. Cartwright was a deceivingly good defensive center.
Nobody on the 96-98 Bulls could guard Kareem though. Kareem would be raining skyhooks on Rodman all game long.
Armstrong and Scott were similar players, just that Scott was better.
Horace Grant and AC Green can duke it out down low.
The main difference would be the bench though. And the Lakers bench is about 10x better than that Bulls bench.
Exactly. Spurs fandom & Suns fandom live in a constant state of waiting on utopia= everybody healthy, all the calls go their way, everybody healthy, home court throughout, everybody healthy, Stern on our side, everybody healthy. If you don't get that utopian state you just throw in the towel like the Spurs did against the Mavs a couple months back and the Suns did after they ran Porter off.
You weak s, you.
Funny... in the 91 Finals (yeah, I had the wrong year at first, surprised none of you die hard fans point that out a lot earlier, if you're so Laker-savvy) the Lakers got CURB-STOMPED 4-1 even though they had:
Magic, Worthy, Byron Scott, Thomspon, A.C. Green, Perkins, Teagle, Elden Campbell, and a young Vlade Divac
by a team consisting of:
Jordan
Pippen
Ho Grant
Cartwright, Paxson, Craig Hodges, BJ Armstrong, Will Perdue
The Lakers had more "weapons," so why did they only win 1 game? Same reason the Suns couldn't get past the Spurs the last 5 years... all offense, no defense. Not to mention, the Lakers had the "championship experience" and the Bulls were supposed to have stage fright being in the Finals for the 1st time...
And don't try to tell me Magic and Worthy were old (he was only 31 and Worthy was 29). If he was so great and Worthy was so great, and the Bulls so bad, why couldn't the Lakers win more than 1 game vs. the weaker of the 2 Bulls three-peat teams?
Nobody played defense in the 80s and you want to put them against a team that DOMINATED the defensive era of basketball? Please...
Last edited by Dunc n Dave; 07-21-2009 at 11:57 AM.
Dunc is correct here. We were fortunate not to get skunked. Perkins hit that 3 to win Game One. Jackson switched Pippen onto Magic and it was all over but the shoutin'. Magic had too much ego to permit Dunleavy to allow Scott to advance the ball, so by the time Magic criss crossed the entire court with Pippen draped all over him he was exhausted and the shot clock was out of kilter in relation to the Lakers offensive schemes.
It was a living nightmare.
You seem to live in a Laker bubble and forget that Pippen and Jordan were the top 2 defensive players in the early 90s. Everyone always remembers Jordan for his scoring, but he took it as a challenge every night to shut his man down on the defensive end. Much like a younger Kobe did... Just look at how many times he made the All-Defensive Team.Do your homework assface. Jordan played Drexler And the Blazers in 92.
Jordan beat a team with Vlade Divac as it's starting center in 1991. That 1991 team was Magic's Lakers minus Kareem who had already retired.
Talk matchups? How would Chicago have defended Kareem? Or Worthy? Or Byron Scott? The Lakers had a DPOY in Cooper who would have made Jordan work to get his.
Kareem would have killed Chicago, as would Bryon, as would Worthy, as would Cooper, as would Nixoon, as would Jamaal Wilkes.
And
Pippen and Jordan were a leathel 2 way threat. Scott was a non-factor thanks to MJ. Worthy shot 16% from 3pt in the Finals, thanks to Pippen. And that center of yours you rag on (Vlade) averaged over 18per game in that series, so it's not like he was a scrub.
Magic was the only big minute player on that team over 30, so don't even play the age card. The 80s were about outscoring your opponent (Run-N-Gun) while the 90s were about defense. Having more weapons on paper has never helped the Suns win in the playoffs vs the Spurs. There's more to winning basketball games than who has the highest PPG average... Those averages drop off when you run into a team that ACTUALLY plays lockdown defense and makes that their calling card.
It seriously needs to be October already. Why are people arguing over something this stupid.
Because it's fun to watch the Laker fans circle the wagons to defend their beloved "showtime" teams and talk themselves in circles until they convince themselves they had the best team in the history of the NBA.
Even if it means them overlooking the tiny detail of no one playing defense in the 80's and all of them being 6'4" and weighing 160 pounds. The NBA was more like wrestling back then: all about style over substance. But hey, at least the fans were entertained, right? Nevermind they didn't have a clue about how real basketball was played...
Where's the poetry, Culburn? You aren't losing your cool, are you? Are you going to start talking about gots and Sperms next?
it WAS pip not Mj that did a great job on magic lakers were NOY best team inthe West portland was ...we were lucky 2 get that far and win a game Magic deserves much props for willing a aging core to a Finals ...
Aging core? Come on... no one who played significant minutes on that team was over the age of 30 other than Magic, and he was only 31 (younger than Duncan or Manu who'll be 32 this month).
I am not trying to discredit Magic as one of the GREATS. He changed the game, showing people a big man COULD play point guard. He was one of the few greats that made people around him better, but honestly Jordan trumps him.
Jordan did MORE with LESS than Magic did and his Bulls teams were a defensive force in the 90s, which is why they won 72 games. It wasn't from outscoring everyone, it was from shutting them down with their defense. Everyone overlooks Jordan's defense because of his scoring. Leading the league in scoring for 6+seasons in a row, Jordan (more than anyone) had an EXCUSE to take it easy on defense, but he never did. He and Pippen were #1 and #2 as perimeter defenders in the 90s and could shut down any scoring tandem.
Jordan won Defensive player of the year in 88 (the year after Cooper won it)and was on 1st Team All Defense 9 TIMES! Yet Laker fans think he couldn't handle Worthy or Magic? Please...
Pippen was All Defensive 10 Times (8 of them on the 1st Team). Both of these guys did this during the golden age of defense in the NBA, so they had a lot more compe ion for these awards than the players of the 80's.
In comparison Cooper was All Defensive Team 8 times (5 times on the 1st team). Yet, he still could never slow down Larry Bird, one of the most unathletic superstars in NBA history. What makes you think he could stop Jordan, one of the greatest athletes in any sport? Once again, no one played defense in the 80's, so anyone who showed the slightest bit of interest in defense had a great chance of being on the All Defensive Team in the 80s.
I know Laker fans will scream about this, but Cooper would be an above average defender in today's NBA, but he was great by 80's standards.
Why does this urban legend still persist? Jordan was the primary defender on Magic that entire series except the final three quarters of game 2 (after Jordan picked up two quick fouls in the first). Pippen took a few turns at Magic, but Jordan was the one guarding him about 70% of the time.
idk
atleast this is something new
better than
lol 2-0
lol Golden State
lol Kobe is a rapist
lol 2nd round (Houston)
No, but, I've been delving into the old lady's bags to see what that's all about. Massengill, what a weird word!Where's the poetry, Culburn? You aren't losing your cool, are you? Are you going to start talking about gots and Sperms next?
That is hore ...you cant praise Jordan for what he did in one sense yet discredit how Coop played the nest ESPEcially whenin your oown post you pointed out that they won the DPOY in back to back years so in 1 year the league got so much better? Asinine ...
As for the argument about defense of the Bulls yes it was great but if you look at the stats there were hardly any great shooting in that era ...so of course those defensive numbers are inflated ...easy to hold teams under 90 when Ft shooting and 3 pt shooting, possesions and league scoring as a whole were down ...the Bulls just did it better than everyone else ...
Botton line is Jordan did what he should dominated a watered down league ...
The 80's way better than the 90's the 84 85 86 87 Lakers as well as the late 80's Pistions were allway better teams than the 90's Bulls
Is jordan GOATsure I can buy that but way btter than Magic ..no and not a btter winner just like you can pull out stats 5 les nine apperances better than 6 as far as being a conistent winner ...Magic all he did was play in Finals and if you bring up teammates sure but that is why the sHowtime Lakers were better end of story ...
May i ask Dunc hhow old were in the 80's ?
He did slow down Bird better than most and what does athletic have to do with being great? Duncan is far less athletic than Amare, Dirk KG even Shaq in his prime ...who would you want on your team heck evenb David was more athletic but Duncan is wayy better silly argument ...Pierce also is not super athletic but he torched the more athletic lebron and in some cases Kobe last year ...
Larry Bird is a HOf'er and I bet you who would torch Bowen, battier or any athletic defender of this era anyone that does not give respect to Birds game really dont know ball and should watch the Larry Legend DVD ...When Rodman still played GREAT defense on the Pistons insteda of the clown prince on the Bulls he could not stop Bird either so what?!
WOW the Jordan love is so blinding we are taking shots at Bird and Cooper?! Dunc and Dave should changed his name to Dumb & dumber IF you believe this pile of crap you shoveling ...
Dunc & dave started this with Magic could not hold Mj's jockstrap that would be = tp saying Duncan could not hold kobe's or vice versa both are great also ...
the number of all defensive team arguments is foolishness because the NBA does a piss poor job of naming MVP's , DPOY and ALL defense ...
Plus Magic may have been 31 but like Manu & Tim who are allwinners EVERY year they are plaing DEEP in to the playoffs ...plus Worthy had a lot of miles and knee trouble as well these are not excuses Bulls were better bu that team was far from showtime ...that ended with the back 2 back mamd attempt at 3 peat run ...
Jordan was at the begining of his career when he won DPOY, Cooper was near the end of his. Jordan continued his defensive dominance through the next decade through his 6 championships.
Same could be said about the offensive numbers. That THEY were inflated in the 80's since nobody played defense: all dunks and layups=inflated shooting %. You telling me Amare and Shaq are the best shooters in the league because of their sky high shooting percentages? Dunks and layups don't make you a good shooter. We call those garbage men...
And did you ever stop to think that shooting percentages were lower in the 90's BECAUSE the defense was better. Or are you really that stupid and believe that good defense does not effect the quality of a shot?
Please, the Lakers were the ones that coasted to the Finals each year with hardly any compe ion out West in the 80s, while Jordan's Bulls were getting pummeled by the Celtics, Pistons, and Knicks (remember the "Jordan Rules" the Pistons implemented?)
9 appearances in the Finals means nothing if you have no compe ion in the West. Magic was great, OK. But Jordan was better and he proved it, even though Magic was supposed to win in 91 with all that experience. Earlier, you said the Lakers had an aging core (yet Magic was 31 and everyone else under 30), then you start using the injury excuse. You guys are the ones always on SPurs fans for playing the injury card, but you're quick to pull it when it plays in your favor too? Turnabout is fair play, my friend.
Once again, the best team on paper doesn't always win. Would the Lkaers beat the 90s Bulls in a game of HORSE? No doubt. But in the Finals, no way. Defense wins championships.
Oh and I was born in '75, so I grew up watching basketball in the 80s. As a kid, I enjoyed watching the Lakers, because I had a short attention span and like to see high scoring games. Then I grew up and learned how to play the game the right way and realized it takes TRUE HEART to commit to defense. Anyone can put the ball through the hoop, but few have the DESIRE to play tough D. That, and SUBSTANCE beats STYLE every time. End of story...
If Magic was so washed up in 1991, how is it that he STILL made 1st Team All NBA? Were the rest of the NBA PGs THAT BAD in 1991 that a washed up old Magic Johnson (who was "tired from all those extra playoff games" against a weak Western Conference) was the best at his position? Just wondering....
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