McDyess vs lakers last season

[DPG21920]

Ok....

Defensive Win Shares
1. Dwight Howard-ORL 7.6
2. LeBron James-CLE 6.3
3. Rajon Rondo-BOS 5.0
4. Yao Ming-HOU 4.9
5. Rashard Lewis-ORL 4.9
6. Tim Duncan-SAS 4.9
7. Paul Pierce-BOS 4.8
8. Chris Paul-NOH 4.7
9. Anderson Varejao-CLE 4.5
10. Gerald Wallace-CHA 4.4
11. Kendrick Perkins-BOS 4.4
12. Hedo Turkoglu-ORL 4.4
13. Emeka Okafor-CHA 4.4
14. Lamar Odom-LAL 4.3
15. Pau Gasol-LAL 4.3
16. Dwyane Wade-MIA 4.3
17. Luis Scola-HOU 4.2
18. Kobe Bryant-LAL 4.2
19. Kevin Garnett-BOS 4.1
20. Ron Artest-HOU


Defensive Rating
1. Dwight Howard-ORL 94.6
2. Kevin Garnett-BOS 97.5
3. LeBron James-CLE 99.1
4. Anderson Varejao-CLE 100.0
5. Kendrick Perkins-BOS 100.2
6. Tim Duncan-SAS 100.2
7. Zydrunas Ilgauskas-CLE 100.5
8. Chris Andersen-DEN 100.6
9. Yao Ming-HOU 100.9
10. Rajon Rondo-BOS 100.9
11. Lamar Odom-LAL 101.7
12. Trevor Ariza-LAL 102.2
13. Gerald Wallace-CHA 102.4
14. Joel Przybilla-POR 102.4
15. Luis Scola-HOU 102.4
16. Samuel Dalembert-PHI 102.6
17. Emeka Okafor-CHA 102.7
18. Rashard Lewis-ORL 102.8
19. Chris Paul-NOH 103.1
20. Rasheed Wallace-DET 103.4


These numbers have him not in the elite category. I watched the games and you can clearly see he lost his lateral quickness. It is not that he is the worst defender ever, but not an elite defender any more. Good low post defender, sub par perimeter defender.

[DrHouse]

Ok....

Defensive Win Shares
1. Dwight Howard-ORL 7.6
2. LeBron James-CLE 6.3
3. Rajon Rondo-BOS 5.0
4. Yao Ming-HOU 4.9
5. Rashard Lewis-ORL 4.9
6. Tim Duncan-SAS 4.9
7. Paul Pierce-BOS 4.8
8. Chris Paul-NOH 4.7
9. Anderson Varejao-CLE 4.5
10. Gerald Wallace-CHA 4.4
11. Kendrick Perkins-BOS 4.4
12. Hedo Turkoglu-ORL 4.4
13. Emeka Okafor-CHA 4.4
14. Lamar Odom-LAL 4.3
15. Pau Gasol-LAL 4.3
16. Dwyane Wade-MIA 4.3
17. Luis Scola-HOU 4.2
18. Kobe Bryant-LAL 4.2
19. Kevin Garnett-BOS 4.1
20. Ron Artest-HOU


Defensive Rating
1. Dwight Howard-ORL 94.6
2. Kevin Garnett-BOS 97.5
3. LeBron James-CLE 99.1
4. Anderson Varejao-CLE 100.0
5. Kendrick Perkins-BOS 100.2
6. Tim Duncan-SAS 100.2
7. Zydrunas Ilgauskas-CLE 100.5
8. Chris Andersen-DEN 100.6
9. Yao Ming-HOU 100.9
10. Rajon Rondo-BOS 100.9
11. Lamar Odom-LAL 101.7
12. Trevor Ariza-LAL 102.2
13. Gerald Wallace-CHA 102.4
14. Joel Przybilla-POR 102.4
15. Luis Scola-HOU 102.4
16. Samuel Dalembert-PHI 102.6
17. Emeka Okafor-CHA 102.7
18. Rashard Lewis-ORL 102.8
19. Chris Paul-NOH 103.1
20. Rasheed Wallace-DET 103.4


These numbers have him not in the elite category. I watched the games and you can clearly see he lost his lateral quickness. It is not that he is the worst defender ever, but not an elite defender any more. Good low post defender, sub par perimeter defender.

Get the out of here with your cherry picked bull stats. You don't even know what you're talking about. Anything that has Hedo ing Turkolgu and Rashard Lewis above Artest defensively in anything is complete and utter crap. Face it, you got owned 6 ways from Sunday and found the only stats you could to back up your pathetic argument.

Ron Artest is an ELITE defender against the best SF's in this league. His stats PROVE that fact as not one of them was able to shoot above their career average. He is an absolute upgrade defensively over Trevor Ariza and that's all that matters.

Spur fan is losing sight of the big picture. Ron Artest doesn't need to be DPOY for the Lakers to be a better team. He just needs to be better than Trevor Ariza. And that he is.

[DPG21920]

Get the out of here with your cherry picked bull stats. You don't even know what you're talking about. Anything that has Hedo ing Turkolgu and Rashard Lewis above Artest defensively in anything is complete and utter crap. Face it, you got owned 6 ways from Sunday and found the only stats you could to back up your pathetic argument.

Ron Artest is an ELITE defender against the best SF's in this league. His stats PROVE that fact as not one of them was able to shoot above their career average. He is an absolute upgrade defensively over Trevor Ariza and that's all that matters.

Spur fan is losing sight of the big picture. Ron Artest doesn't need to be DPOY for the Lakers to be a better team. He just needs to be better than Trevor Ariza. And that he is.

Don't be mad that the stats do not back up your argument. All stats are to be evaluated in context.

Ron is a different defender than Ariza. Ariza has the quickness to guard guys on the perimeter from spots 1-3. Artest is a very good low post defender and now a very average perimeter defender within his own position or higher.

You are overplaying how good Artest is defensively overall (bringing up DPOY B.S. when I straight up owned you with your ty logic with Wallace and Camby). He is not a massive upgrade defensively over Ariza, just has a different skill set.

Offensively is where Artest is superior.

You are the worst poster on ST.

[carrao45]

Did Dr. House ever get with Cutty? (Cuddy?) She's hot

Also, the Dr. House on this forum sucks.

Yeah he boinked her this last season

[HarlemHeat37]

Opposing PER is a horrible way to rank defense, since it doesn't take anything else into account..Amare Stoudemire had one of the best defensive PERs last season IIRC, which absolutely kills it completely..

Anybody that thinks Artest is still a great defender clearly didn't watch basketball last year..he's pure reputation at this point..he's clearly lost a step defensively, and he's clearly too big at this point to be guarding quick players..sure, his post defense is great, but why would anybody even try to post him up in the first place?..these great players don't need to use their post-up games when they can exploit him on the perimeter..

Artest's DPOY award was also at a time where hand-checking was still allowed, which is exactly the defensive style he enjoys playing..so combine that, with his decline physically, and he will clearly continue to decline significantly..ask Rockets fans..

LOL @ he has Kobe to back him up..that's going to be funny..Kobe will actually have to play defense this year, for the first time since the early 3-peat days..the Artest-Battier combination didn't improve Houston's defense, it made them worse, so I can only imagine what Artest with a much inferior defender in Kobe will do..

Ariza was definitely overrated in general, and he wasn't a great 1 on 1 defender..but he was long and athletic, and he forced matchup problems defensively because of that..Artest is going to be much different..

[spursfaninla]

Artest is still very much an elite defender. His post defense is almost unmatched by any SF not named Lebron James. He is absolutely immovable on the block, which makes him perfect to guard SF's like Pierce and Melo. He certainly did not get burned by the elite SF's last season, he more than held his own. Most importantly, he did a better job than Ariza.

So what if he can't guard PG's or SG's. The Lakers don't need him to. We still have Kobe and Shannon Brown for that.

Who do you have Spur fan? Bruce Bowen is long gone.

Question: is Ron ARtest still an elite defender? Lets see how he did against the other team's SF's or big SG...and in doing so, let us actually look at some DATA to see if House has done his homework, or, if as is more likely, he is just talking out of his butt.

Dec 3, game against golden state....Maggette scores 23 on 7-14, and sJ score 26 on 11-18. not a good first Defensive game for Ron for us to analyze...I wanted to start mid-season, to allow for him getting used to the team.

Against Atlanta, dec 9, against Joe Johnson, 8-19 for 22 pts, certainly not "stopped," scored well. SF scored even more efficently, Marvin Williams 5-9 or 11 pts.

Denver, Carmello 8-19 for 22 pts, scoring about his average, shoots 44%, pretty close.

RJ: 6-14, 16 pts, shoots 43%, about right.

Pierce: 7-14, 26 points...

I am going to stop here. I am by no means cherry picking games...I merely looked for games with good SF, and excluded NO stats found...except for a Cleveland, because in all fairness no one stops Lebron. (and lebron did quite well against him, btw).

I see no evidence of Ron being an "elite" defender. Players are shooting about their average against him. Including our RJ.

What people are telling you, and you are not listening: Your team did not need more post defense, it needs good perimeter d. Ron is not good at that anymore because he got too fat/big. Face it, you lost your EXCELLENT perimeter D man in Ariza, and he is not replaced. Your weak PG defense got weaker.

The weak link grows.

[DrHouse]

Question: is Ron ARtest still an elite defender? Lets see how he did against the other team's SF's or big SG...and in doing so, let us actually look at some DATA to see if House has done his homework, or, if as is more likely, he is just talking out of his butt.

Dec 3, game against golden state....Maggette scores 23 on 7-14, and sJ score 26 on 11-18. not a good first Defensive game for Ron for us to analyze...I wanted to start mid-season, to allow for him getting used to the team.

Against Atlanta, dec 9, against Joe Johnson, 8-19 for 22 pts, certainly not "stopped," scored well. SF scored even more efficently, Marvin Williams 5-9 or 11 pts.

Denver, Carmello 8-19 for 22 pts, scoring about his average, shoots 44%, pretty close.

RJ: 6-14, 16 pts, shoots 43%, about right.

Pierce: 7-14, 26 points...

I am going to stop here. I am by no means cherry picking games...I merely looked for games with good SF, and excluded NO stats found...except for a Cleveland, because in all fairness no one stops Lebron. (and lebron did quite well against him, btw).

I see no evidence of Ron being an "elite" defender. Players are shooting about their average against him. Including our RJ.

What people are telling you, and you are not listening: Your team did not need more post defense, it needs good perimeter d. Ron is not good at that anymore because he got too fat/big. Face it, you lost your EXCELLENT perimeter D man in Ariza, and he is not replaced. Your weak PG defense got weaker.

The weak link grows.

On what planet was Ariza ever guarding PG's. Phil Jackson NEVER used him in that role. It's pointless to bring that up.

And I distinctly remember Melo going off for 40+ points in the WCF. I think we sure could have used some Ron Artest post defense there, we damn near lost to DEN because of Ariza's shoddy defense.

[DPG21920]

Give it up House. You are wrong on the subject. No one is saying Ron Artest is a terrible defender, but he is a s of his former self on that end of the floor. He is good when players play to his strengths (try and take him down low), but just like Kobe did, the good players will realize all you have to do is catch the ball higher then take him off the dribble.

You are trying to make it seem like he is a better and more versatile defender than Ariza which is clearly a lie. He is a different defender and will do much better down low than Ariza, but overall, it is probably a wash.

[Spurs_210]

On what planet was Ariza ever guarding PG's. Phil Jackson NEVER used him in that role. It's pointless to bring that up.

And I distinctly remember Melo going off for 40+ points in the WCF. I think we sure could have used some Ron Artest post defense there, we damn near lost to DEN because of Ariza's shoddy defense.

Ok this proves you really don't even watch any games. Maybe the Laker playoff games but nothing else. PJ use Azia to guard PGs. In fact he used him to guard Parker. Other Laker fans correct me if I'm wrong but I know he has used him in that role.

[DPG21920]

On what planet was Ariza ever guarding PG's. Phil Jackson NEVER used him in that role. It's pointless to bring that up.
.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/...y-Parker-.html

Who Can Guard Tony Parker?

June 29, 2009 4:59 PM

The hand-checking rules have been changed since 2001, but it has taken a few years for the rules to evolve into a different loooking game.

As of 2009, it's officially clear that super-fast guards can do serious damage in NBA defenses. Tony Parker, Chris Paul, Aaron Brooks ... the quick guys who can get into the lane at will have become little one-man wrecking crews at times.

The old way to guard them was to bump them off course with an arm or a body. The new way ... not sure there is a new way yet.

I had been assuming that every team would basically have to have a speedy defender to throw out there in those situations. (Somebody keeps blowing by Steve Blake? Bring in Jerryd Bayless!)

But assumptions are always dangerous, and Kurt from Forum Blue and Gold makes a great point: If nobody can stop those guys consistently without drawing a lot of fouls, why carry a player who specializes in trying?

And what's more, why play a tiny guy, when long ones are generally more effective?

The Lakers have had their best success not with small and quick but with bigger and longer. Look at it this way, under today's rules Tony Parker could not defend Tony Parker, Jameer Nelson could not stop Jameer Nelson. Defending these guards with bigger, longer players allows some room for mistakes with good recovery. They Lakers had some of their best success this season when Trevor Ariza was switched to cover a point guard. Just something to think about.

[Muser]

House got owned again, good job DPG

[HarlemHeat37]

Anthony only had 1 great game..

his shooting outside of game 1..

12-29, 0-6
4-13, 1-7
3-16, 0-3
9-23, 1-4
6-17, 1-3

Ariza sucks man..I can't believe he allowed that 3-16 game, just ridiculous..and that 6-17 game? wtf?! he couldn't hold him to 4-17?!..

[dbestpro]

On what planet was Ariza ever guarding PG's. Phil Jackson NEVER used him in that role. It's pointless to bring that up.

And I distinctly remember Melo going off for 40+ points in the WCF. I think we sure could have used some Ron Artest post defense there, we damn near lost to DEN because of Ariza's shoddy defense.

Damn, you are dense. Small forwards who shoot from outside will do better against LA with Artest than Ariza. SF who tries to score inside would have had trouble anyway. So, the perimeter defense is more weak. No wonder California is leading the nation in the unemployed.

[DrHouse]

Ok this proves you really don't even watch any games. Maybe the Laker playoff games but nothing else. PJ use Azia to guard PGs. In fact he used him to guard Parker. Other Laker fans correct me if I'm wrong but I know he has used him in that role.

He used Ariza on Parker once in a regular season game in the 4th quarter.

In the playoffs, he left Fisher out to die. You don't know what you're talking about kid.

[DrHouse]

Damn, you are dense. Small forwards who shoot from outside will do better against LA with Artest than Ariza. SF who tries to score inside would have had trouble anyway. So, the perimeter defense is more weak. No wonder California is leading the nation in the unemployed.

So just so I have this straight.

According to Spur fan, Trevor Ariza is a better defender than Ron Artest with guys like Melo, Pierce, and LBJ.



Ariza couldn't even guard Artest for christ sakes. He got used and abused by bigger, bulkier, SF's.

[Spurs_210]

He used Ariza on Parker once in a regular season game in the 4th quarter.

In the playoffs, he left Fisher out to die. You don't know what you're talking about kid.

Says the guy who posted "he NEVER used him in that role"

[spursfaninla]

I liked the subtle "kid" reference, ignoring the article owning him.

This guy is too easy to own. Its like getting laid by a good looking hooker: you could brag, but what would be the point?

[DPG21920]

I am sensing a malpractice suit.

[DrHouse]

I watched every Laker regular season and post season game. Don't ing sit here and tell me that Phil Jackson put Trevor Ariza on PG's consistently throughout the playoffs.

He didn't. Show me video evidence or STFU.

/thread

[DrHouse]

He did it maybe once or twice that I can remember. No need for that this season because Shannon is a better defender, shooter and athlete than Ariza is. Were ing awesome!!!

Exactly.

Jackson left Fisher out to die on an island. He did not consistently put Ariza on the other team's PG.

Thus, it is pointless to discuss Ron Artest's ability to defend PG's since Ariza rarely, if ever, did it himself.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I sure hope so, cuz I think if he doesn't come back, our new signings don't matter if we have to play the Lakers. I would have to predict that we'd have one of those Mavs or Suns seasons from a few years ago, great the whole season, but then we'll get unraveled by the Lakers in the post season, all cuz Bruce wasn't here to cool down Kobe.

Another horrible scenario would be if Lakers got him. Then Bruce would shutdown Manu or Jefferson too while Kobe gets what he wants. Phil would love this.

Step away from Bruce's nuts, dude. That's not a crack pipe you're smoking. While I wouldn't mind Bruce coming back he will be in a suit most of the time if he does. He might be good for short stints, but there was a reason he didn't get on the floor much last year even w/ Manu out as much as he was. He has lost a step. He is not going to shut Kobe down. The lockdown defender role is going to RJ. He is going to be called on to play D like he did in NJ and not worry as much regarding his offense. With all the fantastic moves the Spurs have made over the summer you are focusing on a guy who would at best be our 3rd string SF as the key to our season's success....SHHHHEEEEZZZZ

[bostonguy]

These are the guys we need Artest to guard...

Pierce
Jefferson
Melo
Lebron
Marion
Rashard Lewis

Artest wont have to guard perimeter players. Ariza rarely guarded perimeter players. The only thing Ariza does slightly better than Artest is jump the lanes for steals. Artest is vast superior at everything else compared to Ariza.

What you guys dont realize is every team Artest played on they needed him to score. He was a go-to guy on all of those other teams. Even without Ariza, and Bynum, we still have the best offense in the league... hands down!!!

Artest is going to come in and do the dirty work for us. Thats all we need him for. Hes a good rebounder, still a strong defender, a good spot up shooter, and can also slash, post up, and create for his teammates, and he loves to compete.

For the first time in his career hes going to be playing with no pressure, and that is what will make him so dangerous on our team. Artest will be such a perfect fit, that all of you are praying for the Lakers to lose Odom, which isn't happening by the way.

Get ready for some of this... only this time, because hes going to be in purple and gold, it wont be a foul.

You are really that confident Odom is staying? Why is it taking this long? I thought I heard he was going to be making a decision earlier this week.

[Spurs_210]

I watched every Laker regular season and post season game. Don't ing sit here and tell me that Phil Jackson put Trevor Ariza on PG's consistently throughout the playoffs.

He didn't. Show me video evidence or STFU.

/thread

Now you correct yourself

[buttsR4rebounding]

Get the out of here with your cherry picked bull stats. You don't even know what you're talking about. Anything that has Hedo ing Turkolgu and Rashard Lewis above Artest defensively in anything is complete and utter crap. Face it, you got owned 6 ways from Sunday and found the only stats you could to back up your pathetic argument.

Ron Artest is an ELITE defender against the best SF's in this league. His stats PROVE that fact as not one of them was able to shoot above their career average. He is an absolute upgrade defensively over Trevor Ariza and that's all that matters.

Spur fan is losing sight of the big picture. Ron Artest doesn't need to be DPOY for the Lakers to be a better team. He just needs to be better than Trevor Ariza. And that he is.

Actually, that isn't even the the big picture. The real question is did the Spurs improve enough to overtake the Lakers even if they keep Odom (which I believe they will) and Artest is an upgrade over Ariza (which I believe he is, but not by a ton)? The Spurs took massive strides in turning weaknesses into strengths and have thusfar had far and away the best offseason of any team. Is it enough to beat the Lakers? I firmly believe that it will be settled in the Western Conference Finals. We will have enough to win if we are healthy and Blair and Mahimni can give us quality minutes and we won't if they don't and that remains to be seen...

[DPG21920]

No one is saying that Artest is a terrible defender, but he is not better than Ariza overall. He has certain things he does better, other things he does worse.

All of the great offensive players (Pierce, Bron, Melo, ...) will do what Kobe did to him. Figure out that going down low won't work and then draw him out onto the perimeter.