Pick the best right now: Dirk vs KG

[Ghazi]

i can see the argument for dirk even tho i disagree, but geez theres gotta be some texas homerism here. how can it be this lopsided? we are talking about kevin freakin garnett people. a , yes but quite possibly the best 2 way player in the game today!

I think the lopsidedness is justified because its best RIGHT now. KG saw some steep declines in his #'s last year and that was BEFORE the injury. Come playoffs 2010, KG will be 34 years old, Dirk will be 31 years old. You could say KG may have exited his prime last year, while Dirk has 1-2 prime years left.

It's tough to say though, cause who knows how KG will bounce back next year?


Just my take.

FWIW I think Dirk's been better than KG for the past 5 years

[LnGrrrR]

Here you go Findog. Doesn't matter if Hornets' fans do admit the embarressment of that loss. Cheap shots comming from everywhere. THE LOSS WAS EMBARRESSING!! VERY! But this is a Dirk vs. KG thread believe it or not.
One thing I try to keep in perspective is that we are the smallest market in the league by far, and we are just lucky to have a team. In actuality, we are lucky to still have a city. I just think it's in very poor taste that people on this board make fun of Katrina's effect on Nola more than sympathize. A lot of people I know in Nola lost absolutely everything they had, and the Hornets and Saints gave us something to finally cheer for. New orleans fans are known for being very protective of their teams. But those teams simply playing games back in Nola was our 1st step back towards normalcy, and gave us something to be proud of and to cheer for, which was something everyone really needed at that time. Many of us feel like we owe it to them even in bad times, b/c they helped us in the worst of times. Might be a some-what corny post, but I'm just trying to give you a little perspective into New orleans and it's fans.

Damn straight. I'm not from New Orleans, but I got rocked by Katrina here in Biloxi, and thank goodness New Orleans French Quarter and Bourbon Street came back when it did. It felt weird cruising down those streets seeing everything boarded up, and no one playing music or dancing on the canal entrance to Bourbon. Bad times.

[mavs>spurs2]

Look at KG's in supporting cast. He goes out for the playoffs with an injury and they still make it to the second round. Didn't miss too much of a beat when he was out, they finished the last 10 games 8-2 without him. Now had Dirk missed a sizable portion of the regular season? That team wouldn't have even made the playoffs. We're talking about an 8 man rotation where JJ Barea,Antoine Wright, and Erik Dampier are key parts. Dirk carried those sorry s to the playoffs, past the Spurs, and who knows what could have happened if the refs knew how to blow a whistle and didnt change the entire dynamics and momentum of the Denver series. Anyone who says KG > Dirk is re ed and has never seen the two go at it head to head. Anyone who's calling Dirk a poor defender doesn't follow basketball and is basing their perception off of what everyone else was saying 8 or 9 years ago. Dirk plays solid above average defense and is a smart defender always in good position much like Duncan minus the shotblocking presence. I'm willing to bet that 90% of the KG votes are by black posters because it's a pretty ridiculous claim.

[La Peace]

Here you go Findog. Doesn't matter if Hornets' fans do admit the embarressment of that loss. Cheap shots comming from everywhere. THE LOSS WAS EMBARRESSING!! VERY! But this is a Dirk vs. KG thread believe it or not.
One thing I try to keep in perspective is that we are the smallest market in the league by far, and we are just lucky to have a team. In actuality, we are lucky to still have a city. I just think it's in very poor taste that people on this board make fun of Katrina's effect on Nola more than sympathize. A lot of people I know in Nola lost absolutely everything they had, and the Hornets and Saints gave us something to finally cheer for. New orleans fans are known for being very protective of their teams. But those teams simply playing games back in Nola was our 1st step back towards normalcy, and gave us something to be proud of and to cheer for, which was something everyone really needed at that time. Many of us feel like we owe it to them even in bad times, b/c they helped us in the worst of times. Might be a some-what corny post, but I'm just trying to give you a little perspective into New orleans and it's fans.

You just raised a level in my book.

You are now on level one.

[z0sa]

They turn into the Bad News Bears at the first sign of the blue and green.

Last I checked, that 06 series went to OT in game 7. And excuse me for pulling the whole Manu/Tim injury cards. happens, we weren't up to par without those two healthy.

. Okay. Yeah, Bonner locked Dirk down and the Spurs didn't constantly run double teams at him and trap him to force the ball out of his hands...leading to Barea, Bass and Josh having a field day. Okay.

Talk about exaggeration.

KG can't create his own shot in crunchtime. Dirk can. I've seen Dirk score with ease against KG, Artest and Battier.

KG is more of a traditional big man. That's honestly like saying Tim can't create his own shot in crunchtime, which is why they let parker or Ginobili handle the ball down the stretch. You want the ball in a perimeter players hands for multiple reasons. Regardless of what the e- s are saying, an open shot from midrange is way better than a toughly contested 3 footer, which is what a traditional bigman will be getting. Dirk's fadeaways are like an open shot from midrange due to his height and the fact he's generally guarded by smaller players.

Wah Wah Wah! My pussy hurts!

i'm sorry to hear that.

The refs are not the reason Dallas lost that series to Miami. Wade got some bull calls, sure, but Miami deserves credit for winning that series. Pretty weak takes from you blaming the refs for San Antonio losing. What are you, 12?

my profile relates my age. As to blaming the refs, the blame actually goes against Manu. If you had any clue about spurfan, you'd already know this. However, there'd have been no Manu foul to give if the refs had called it fair.

Dirk got within an inch of a le with Josh Howard and Jason Terry as his two main sidekicks.

An inch? They only won 2 games out of the required 4. They didn't force a game 7. The Mavericks got pwned. The you talking this "inch" business. More convincing yourself day after day your Mavs didn't lose as pathetically as you remembered.

KG won a le with Paul Pierce and Ray Allen.

In his first season with them. And they won 60something games. And KG came through for them pretty damn well. That monstrous Game 6 of the Finals comes to mind.

Pierce/Allen >>>>> Josh/Jet. KG has NEVER gotten out of the first round unless he's had two all stars by his side.

Guess you're just ignoring the fact Dirk had Nash and Finley for a good while as well. Don't forget you had an all-time great coach, too. Couldn't win back then, either. WHOOOSH the sound of your argument losing air.

at you.

[Findog]

Tim Duncan's Spurs already won something. Your team let Dwyane Wade beat them four times straight. You can bring up your 121-63, but at least my Hornets lost to the better team. Your team had it's foot on the Heat's throat, and they let go.

I like how this dip keeps throwing Wade in our faces...as if we let Jannero Pargo go for 37 points a game in the Finals. It's Dwyane ing Wade. When healthy, he is one of the top 3 players in the League. If he's not equal with Kobe or LeBron, he's only a hair behind them. Avery doubled Shaq constantly in that series and for the most part played Wade straight up. The Heat will probably be remembered as one of the weaker le teams, but they earned their championship by getting hot at the exact right time.

[Findog]

Last I checked, that 06 series went to OT in game 7. And excuse me for pulling the whole Manu/Tim injury cards. happens, we weren't up to par without those two healthy.

Excuses, Excuses. When my team loses, I give credit to the other team for outplaying the Mavs.

KG is more of a traditional big man. That's honestly like saying Tim can't create his own shot in crunchtime, which is why they let parker or Ginobili handle the ball down the stretch.

If you think Tim Duncan is no better at creating his own shot in crunchtime than KG, I honestly don't know what to say. The Spurs have the luxury of having 3 guys, 4 now with RJ, that can create their own shot in crunchtime. Duncan is one of them. You're a Spurs fan? Have you ever watched the Spurs or Duncan play?

You want the ball in a perimeter players hands for multiple reasons. Regardless of what the e- s are saying, an open shot from midrange is way better than a toughly contested 3 footer, which is what a traditional bigman will be getting. Dirk's fadeaways are like an open shot from midrange due to his height and the fact he's generally guarded by smaller players.

So it would be folly to throw it down in the low block to Shaq (in his prime) or Duncan in the clutch? Umm...okay. Why am I arguing with you again?

my profile relates my age. As to blaming the refs, the blame actually goes against Manu. If you had any clue about spurfan, you'd already know this. However, there'd have been no Manu foul to give if the refs had called it fair.

Sounds like blaming the refs to me.

An inch? They only won 2 games out of the required 4. They didn't force a game 7. The Mavericks got pwned. The you talking this "inch" business. More convincing yourself day after day your Mavs didn't lose as pathetically as you remembered.

They were an inch within going up 3-0. Had that happened, Miami would've rolled over. Each team had a blowout win (Dallas G2, Miami G4). The other three Miami wins were by a grand total of 6 points. Six points over 144 minutes. Every single one of those games coming down to the final possession. So yeah, they were blown the out. Dallas also lost to Golden State in 6 games, but they were never in that series.

In his first season with them. And they won 60something games. And KG came through for them pretty damn well. That monstrous Game 6 of the Finals comes to mind.

Paul Pierce/Ray Allen >>>>>> Josh Howard/Jason Terry. You're welcome.

Guess you're just ignoring the fact Dirk had Nash and Finley for a good while as well.

Those teams played no defense and would never have beaten Shaq/Kobe in a playoff series.

Don't forget you had an all-time great coach, too.

You mean this functioning alcoholic?

Couldn't win back then, either. WHOOOSH the sound of your argument losing air.

I wouldn't brag about "winning" an argument when you say Tim Duncan is no better a crunchtime scorer than KG, blame the refs when your team loses, and state that it's better to take jump shots than throw it down low to a dominant big in the clutch.

[Findog]

I love Woody Paige....the ST poster, not the assbag who writes for the Denver Post.

[baseline bum]

with a below average supporting cast, KG's teams were in the lottery.

with a below average supporting cast, Dirk's teams are still winning 50 games.

Howard, Terry, Kidd, and Dampier isn't a below average supporting cast.

[Findog]

Howard, Terry, Kidd, and Dampier isn't a below average supporting cast.

Paul Pierce/Ray Allen or Josh Howard/Jason Terry? Who do you want? Because one of the central tenets in the KG > Dirk argument is the ring KG has. I'm sorry, they're both great players, and you can make an argument for one or the other being better, but I don't think you can point to KG's ring as proof that KG is better. That Celtics supporting cast is decisively better than Dirk's 06 supporting cast.

[Findog]

In that case then neither is Sprewell, Cassell, Sczerbiak, & Olowokandi, but the Wolves were still a lottery team with that group and KG.

I guarantee you the 08/09 Mavs do not advance to the second round if you swap out a healthy KG for Dirk.

[baseline bum]

Paul Pierce/Ray Allen or Josh Howard/Jason Terry? Who do you want? Because one of the central tenets in the KG > Dirk argument is the ring KG has. I'm sorry, they're both great players, and you can make an argument for one or the other being better, but I don't think you can point to KG's ring as proof that KG is better. That Celtics supporting cast is decisively better than Dirk's 06 supporting cast.

Where have I argued that? If you look at my vote, I chose Dirk.

[Ghazi]

Dirk's supporting cast isn't / wasn't that bad, just very poorly structured IMO. Mediocre outside shooting (25th in league), inability to generate free throw attempts (I think bottom 5 in league), and a lack of paint scoring (30th in league). Just not anywhere close to championship caliber, and I think it's fair to say that they were below average in the Nuggets series, considering Dirk played with out of this world efficiency and the Mavs only mustered 1 win.

[ffadicted]

Dirk is the best PF at the moment period.

[baseline bum]

In that case then neither is Sprewell, Cassell, Sczerbiak, & Olowokandi, but the Wolves were still a lottery team with that group and KG.

2009 Terry is clearly better than 2005 Sprewell; it's not even close
2009 Howard is at worst equal to 2005 Szczerbiak
2009 Kidd is a lot better than 2005 Cassell at everything but scoring
2009 Dampier in limited minutes is still a lot better than soft-ass 2005 Olowokandi

[z0sa]

Excuses, Excuses. When my team loses, I give credit to the other team for outplaying the Mavs.

Your team outplayed my team. There.

If you think Tim Duncan is no better at creating his own shot in crunchtime than KG, I honestly don't know what to say. The Spurs have the luxury of having 3 guys, 4 now with RJ, that can create their own shot in crunchtime. Duncan is one of them. You're a Spurs fan? Have you ever watched the Spurs or Duncan play?

You'd be better off just saying, "I have no response," than changing the subject. Because, indeed, it was you who said KG cannot create his own shot in crunchtime, not I. I simply LOL'd at you and said that'd be like saying Timmy D can't create his shot in crunchtime. My point, whether or not you understood it, stands.

So it would be folly to throw it down in the low block to Shaq (in his prime) or Duncan in the clutch? Umm...okay. Why am I arguing with you again?

But it is you who wouldn't give it to Shaq or Tim in the clutch, bro. That's what you just said - that KG can't create his own shot in the clutch, but Dirk can. That's the same as saying any of the great players can't create their own shot in the clutch. Last I checked, the coach calls the plays. Like I related earlier, KG hit multiple game winners in isolation plays his last season with Minny. You can doublecheck that if you want.

You're agreeing with me and you don't even know it is the problem. I'm not comparing timmy and KG's skill levels, I'm just saying either one can get his shot at any time, any place. Dirk can too. So can Shaq, etc It's not hard to understand.

Whether or not you want to argue one or the other is "clutch," that is a different story.

They were an inch within going up 3-0. Had that happened, Miami would've rolled over. Each team had a blowout win (Dallas G2, Miami G4). The other three Miami wins were by a grand total of 6 points. Six points over 144 minutes. Every single one of those games coming down to the final possession. So yeah, they were blown the out. Dallas also lost to Golden State in 6 games, but they were never in that series.

More exaggeration. You use that a lot against others in your arguments, don't you? To put them on the defensive? To make yourself look better? Nice try. Look, I never said Dallas wasn't in the series. it was pretty close at one point. Within an inch? Nope. They weren't ever within an inch at any point. Being up by 10 with a quarter to go doesn't mean jack , just ask the 2000 Blazers - and its ridiculous you'd sink that low. Oh well, Mavfan for you.

Paul Pierce/Ray Allen >>>>>> Josh Howard/Jason Terry. You're welcome.

you can keep ignoring my posts, too, since you obviously have no answer.

Those teams played no defense and would never have beaten Shaq/Kobe in a playoff series.

No excuses, remember? Dirk just wasn't good enough on both ends. Accept it. Learn to live with it.

You mean this functioning alcoholic?

Absolutely. Unless you'd fare to make an argument that he somehow held Dirk down.

I wouldn't brag about "winning" an argument when you say Tim Duncan is no better a crunchtime scorer than KG

That's what you would be saying is what I said, sort of. I didn't compare the two players oncesoever.

blame the refs when your team loses,

The calls weren't fair. Just because your team was on the receiving end and therefore you cast a blind eye, doesn't mean they didn't alter the course of history.

and state that it's better to take jump shots than throw it down low to a dominant big in the clutch.

I responded to you saying that, dude. are you drunk? You stated KG can't get his own shot in the clutch, but Dirk can. You're full of and we both know it, so I responded with the Timmy comment. Great players can get their shot anytime they wish, but you will rarely see a play down the stretch from Boston or SA that doesn't involve Parker/Manu or Pierce/Allen with the ball. Do you hit Timmy or KG at an open wing, or down low for a bodied up, contested layup? At this stage of their career, with this NBA's calls, you want an open jumpshot or a lane to the basket. Which ties in with the rest of my argument.

[dickface]

Dirk played with out of this world efficiency and the Mavs only mustered 1 win.

Obviously Dirk still choked. That's the only explanation. He told Antoine Wright to give a weak ass foul and then back off like he didn't want to.

It's amazing how far some Spurs fans will go to discredit Dirk just because he kicked your team's ass a couple times. And it's no wonder they love KG, he bent over and let Tim Duncan rape him constantly.

[Ghazi]

Mavs/Lakers beat Spurs every year Spurs don't win a le, and so their fans are bags

Pistons lose to Spurs in Finals because of Sheed's cluster , and so their fans are classy and get their own message board

Although Lakers fans can be pretty y IMO, sme at least.

[dickface]

Don't forget you had an all-time great coach, too.

Oh, the guy who's never won an NBA le and doesn't give a about defense? After more than a dozen pages of y ass "Defense wins les, and les mean everything, take it from me, I'm a Spurs fan I know this!" posts from you, and now you're going to claim that a coach who NEVER WON A LE AND DOESN'T COACH DEFENSE IS AN ALL-TIME GREAT????????????????????????????????????!?!?!?!?! ?

just stop now, we know you're full of and will say whatever you can to win an argument without even so much as a glance at your own failed logic. You lose, good day sir.

[dickface]

Mavs/Lakers beat Spurs every year Spurs don't win a le, and so their fans are bags

Pistons lose to Spurs in Finals because of Sheed's cluster , and so their fans are classy and get their own message board

Although Lakers fans can be pretty y IMO, sme at least.

Ghazi has had some rare quality posts in this thread

[z0sa]

Oh, the guy who's never won an NBA le and doesn't give a about defense? After more than a dozen pages of y ass "Defense wins les, and les mean everything, take it from me, I'm a Spurs fan I know this!" posts from you, and now you're going to claim that a coach who NEVER WON A LE AND DOESN'T COACH DEFENSE IS AN ALL-TIME GREAT????????????????????????????????????!?!?!?!?! ?

just stop now, we know you're full of and will say whatever you can to win an argument without even so much as a glance at your own failed logic. You lose, good day sir.

I consider him an all-time great. Just because he doesn't believe in defense doesn't mean he's not one of the more brilliant basketball minds ever. he's got quite a few wins, as well. Just because he couldn't lead the Mavs (or anyone else) to the heartland doesn't mean he's another d'antoni. There's plenty of great minds without a le; sorry that means everything to you.

[ffadicted]

lol @ all the Spurs fans in denial

[dickface]

I consider him an all-time great. Just because he doesn't believe in defense doesn't mean he's not one of the more brilliant basketball minds ever. he's got quite a few wins, as well. Just because he couldn't lead the Mavs to the heartland doesn't mean he's another d'antoni.

So you'd love for him to coach the Spurs, right? You'd love for Parker & Duncan to start jacking up 3's all night and nobody to play defense, right?

[z0sa]

So you'd love for him to coach the Spurs, right? You'd love for Duncan to start jacking up 3's all night and nobody to play defense, right?

Timmy can shoot 3's.

[dickface]

Timmy can shoot 3's.

Yeah that career 18.8% is incredible.