My rights as a citizen are being sodomized

[Wild Cobra]

They need to upgrade to video. A still photo is insulting.

Now I agree. With modern electronics, video is the way to go. Then again, it can be more damning...

[Wild Cobra]

I guess WC would like it in Britain. They have cameras EVERYWHERE.
They have cameras hidden in "decoy" trashcans in alleys to see who is putting their trash out on the wrong days.

That is one thing I think they did right. Remember now, they found the subway bombers that way.

You cannot expect to have privacy in public places. Now I don't like the idea that there is becoming such a need, but it's less expensive than placing a police officer on every corner.

As for the enforcing sanitation laws... I hope we never get to such a place where we have such laws to begin with. However, laws need to be enforced.

I'll bet you'd be singing a different tune if a loved one was killed, and the only witness was a camera. If there was no way to bring the killer to justice without such evidence, and they ended up spending their life in jail afterward, what would you say then?

Now I don't mean as the only evidence, but for identifying the suspect to begin with. Plate number, face, etc. Have to find the right person before forensic evidence can be matched, right?

[Marcus Bryant]

6th amendment gives you the right to face your accuser. However, I have heard an urban legal legend that this exact issue has been raised with the camera tickets and was unsuccessful. I would go and see a traffic lawyer, they might be able to give you some sound advice for $150-200.

ROFL. You still care about the Cons ution?

[Marcus Bryant]

With every city in America facing budget crunches you can bet that ticket collections are going to be taken more seriously.

Right. The cops will be out hunting the law abiding on the roads while the criminals will be tracking those marks at home. But one wears a uniform. And sells fancy stickers so somebody else gets pulled over.

[sook]

6th amendment gives you the right to face your accuser. However, I have heard an urban legal legend that this exact issue has been raised with the camera tickets and was unsuccessful. I would go and see a traffic lawyer, they might be able to give you some sound advice for $150-200.

wow, i can't face my accuser because it is a ing camera, so i have to dish out twice as much cash just to fight it. Wrong on so many levels

[sook]

I'm sure many struggling college students would choose to fight it

[Marcus Bryant]

That is one thing I think they did right. Remember now, they found the subway bombers that way.

You cannot expect to have privacy in public places. Now I don't like the idea that there is becoming such a need, but it's less expensive than placing a police officer on every corner.

As for the enforcing sanitation laws... I hope we never get to such a place where we have such laws to begin with. However, laws need to be enforced.

I'll bet you'd be singing a different tune if a loved one was killed, and the only witness was a camera. If there was no way to bring the killer to justice without such evidence, and they ended up spending their life in jail afterward, what would you say then?

Now I don't mean as the only evidence, but for identifying the suspect to begin with. Plate number, face, etc. Have to find the right person before forensic evidence can be matched, right?

Ah yes, the "libertarian conservative." When you're through ting on the Bill of Rights, let me know.

[Wild Cobra]

wow, i can't face my accuser because it is a ing camera, so i have to dish out twice as much cash just to fight it. Wrong on so many levels

Again, before you go to court, get the calibration data. If it is either expired, or they wont give it to you, make sure the judge knows that!

[Wild Cobra]

Ah yes, the "libertarian conservative." When you're through ting on the Bill of Rights, let me know.

Please explain to me how that is ting on the bill of rights? Maybe I'm misinformed about it. Please... change my mind. People seem to think the one I have is wrong anyway.

[sook]

Again, before you go to court, get the calibration data. If it is either expired, or they wont give it to you, make sure the judge knows that!

alrighty thnx bud.

[Marcus Bryant]

Please explain to me how that is ting on the bill of rights? Maybe I'm misinformed about it. Please... change my mind. People seem to think the one I have is wrong anyway.

You're fine with the government violating our rights so long as the feds can come up with a bull excuse for it that involves the military, fear of Islamic terrorists lurking in our garbage cans, or the possible annihilation of Iran, and not anything that sounds vaguely socialistic.

[Marcus Bryant]

Please explain to me how that is ting on the bill of rights? Maybe I'm misinformed about it. Please... change my mind. People seem to think the one I have is wrong anyway.

Do you really think that garbage can cameras would have garnered the approval of Jefferson and Madison?

Get your authoritarian ass out of here.

[Wild Cobra]

You're fine with the government violating our rights so long as the feds can come up with a bull excuse for it that involves the military, fear of Islamic terrorists lurking in our garbage cans, or the possible annihilation of Iran, and not anything that sounds vaguely socialistic.

You didn't tell me how that violates our rights. I hguess you can't. OK, I understand.

[Marcus Bryant]

You didn't tell me how that violates our rights. I hguess you can't. OK, I understand.

LOL. I guess you're for a Cons ution that grows, or better, for a textual parsing of it that kills the spirit of it altogether. If you want your life subject to the eye in the sky, move to the UK.

[Wild Cobra]

Do you really think that garbage can cameras would have garnered the approval of Jefferson and Madison?

Get your authoritarian ass out of here.

I think that's going too far. But that the UK, not here. I would say the owners of the collection service have such a right if they chose to, but really... do we have alternating day laws anywhere?

If we have a law, shouldn't there be a mechanism to enforce it? I'm not arguing the morality of the law, just that we try to take the laws we have serious, or eliminate them.

I am libertarian. You go beyond that to the extreme of an anarchist I think.

[Wild Cobra]

LOL. I guess you're for a Cons ution that grows, or better, for a textual parsing of it that kills the spirit of it altogether. If you want your life subject to the eye in the sky, move to the UK.

Loser...

You don't have an answer for me.

Once again, how does a camera in public violate the bill of rights?

[Marcus Bryant]

Loser...

You don't have an answer for me.

Once again, how does a camera in public violate the bill of rights?

LOL. Unreasonable search, for one.

How might a camera "in public" trained on your front door not violate the Bill of Rights? But, the camera is "in public" so it's cool, no?

Further, it clearly violates the spirit of the Bill of Rights, unless you believe that Jefferson, Madison, Benny F, and the gang thought it was perfectly cool for the redcoats to stroll down your neighborhood and scoping your ass out.

[Marcus Bryant]

I think that's going too far. But that the UK, not here. I would say the owners of the collection service have such a right if they chose to, but really... do we have alternating day laws anywhere?

If we have a law, shouldn't there be a mechanism to enforce it? I'm not arguing the morality of the law, just that we try to take the laws we have serious, or eliminate them.

Expedience? Mother er the whole point of the Cons ution is that our rights are more important than the efficiency of the authorities. Again and again and again you chose to side with the state instead of the individual. That is why you are no individualist.

I am libertarian. You go beyond that to the extreme of an anarchist I think.

HAHAHAHHHAHAHHAHHHA. You're as much a libertarian as Barack is a capitalist. You only latched onto that label because you managed to piss all over the conservative label. A libertarian's first reaction isn't, "hey, cops with cameras watching my every move, ING AWESOME!!!11".

Get the outta here.

[Winehole23]

I guess WC would like it in Britain. They have cameras EVERYWHERE.

They have cameras hidden in "decoy" trashcans in alleys to see who is putting their trash out on the wrong days.

Yes, essentially.

It's perverse to me that self-respecting norteamericanos promote the automated enforcement of law, but I guess anyone who worships the power of the state is liable to fantasize about its perfection or at least, its maximum efficiency.

If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear.

If nothing is hidden, everything may be taken. WC would strengthen the hand of the state against its own citizens. Against us.

Yoiks.

[baseline bum]

You cannot expect to have privacy in public places. Now I don't like the idea that there is becoming such a need, but it's less expensive than placing a police officer on every corner.

So if cost wasn't an issue you'd want a cop at every corner? Turn every city into Habana or Tijuana?

[boutons_deux]

As reliable as a cuckoo clock, WC chirps in with full "conservative" support of ins utions over citizens, like his equally radical conservative cuckoo buddies on the Supreme Court.

Move to France, and many other countries, where the political and judicial systems exist to keep the state supreme, no matter the cost to the citizens. It's all very subtle, even sophisticated, and secretive, most of the time, but if you look for it, it's pervasive.

Of course, the "state" is always the corrupt, kleptocratic, oligarchic plutocracy, within and outside of government, with their venal, rapacious hands on the levers of state power. The US is exactly the same, it's just that most US citizens have been hood-winked into believing the school-boy Myths of Supreme America The Beautiful.

Assholes like WC think that the magnificently terse phrase of "price of freedom is eternal vigilance" means the state's vigilance and 1984-ish control over its suspects, aka, citizens, when of course the phrase applies to citizens being vigilant about the eternal, inevitable abuses of power by the state.

Shut the up, take off your shoes, and get in line to be scanned, Citizen Suspects. This charade is for your own good.

[LnGrrrR]

To be fair, at least WC supports the right to own guns.

Of course, with cameras everywhere, the cops can just wait til he's out shopping to confiscate them.

[LnGrrrR]

Assholes like WC think that the magnificently terse phrase of "price of freedom is eternal vigilance" means the state's vigilance and 1984-ish control over its suspects, aka, citizens, when of course the phrase applies to citizens being vigilant about the eternal, inevitable abuses of power by the state.

I think that's the smartest thing I've ever heard you say...

[LnGrrrR]

The reason why cameras are considered 'acceptable' is because they're remote, hidden away. I'm sure if you had a cop who sat on the sidewalk watching your house, or sitting on a street corner watching every move, it'd be quite unnerving.

[doobs]

I don't like these kinds of cameras, but there's no real cons utional issue here.