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Exactly.
There is no expectation of privacy in public places.
This is no different than a tagger getting caught by a surveillance camera in a parking lot.
However, if it was a legal turn, or if you think you can convince them of that, then go ahead and go through the legal process and get it overturned, its a little bit of a pain, but its your right to do so.
Exactly.
So you oppose the Patriot Act?
No, he supported it. Like a good "libertarian" would.
I'd think real hard before challenging the ticket. If you know you didn't come to a full stop, then you really don't have a case. I got one of those tickets for running a red light. It was a very close call and it was a day when we had ice and slick roads. I knew if I tried to stop, I'd probably slide thru the intersection anyway - and I wasn't speeding.
I contacted a lawyer and he said very, very few people are successful in challenging the camera tickets - and here in Arlington, if you lose the challenge, they tack on another $25 for "court costs"!
man, what a dump arlington has turned into. i lived there over 10 years ago and it's changed for the worse, in my eyes. hopefully the stadium will change that.
For making you pay court costs when you lose? Or just in general, its turned into a dump.
It's not a search.
I believe that is already illegal.
Bull . You're making things up. It doesn't violate freedom any more than anyone in public watching from a public vantage point.
What the redcoats did was way different than a camera, or a police officer passing by. They did as they pleased with impunity.
You ain't got .
camera's are not my first choice. I however acknowledge that there are legitimate need of enforcing the law. You seem to want to tie the hands so law enforcement is neutralized.
"establish justice, insure domestic tranquility"
No, I acknowledge the cons ution.
What liberties has it infringed on?
Now I'm furious about how they made air travel so much harder, but that's not what you are speaking of.
What liberties do the way we use cameras infringe on our liberties?
You have to be reasonable about these things.
Again, What liberties do cameras and the Patriot Act infringe on?
Mmmm...not sure. This guy thinks they violate due process, whatever that is.
http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Opini...ll-as-more.htm
in general.
AZ County Prosecutor Throws Out Criminal Speed Camera Citations
Motorists will no longer be sent to jail on the mere accusation of a machine in Maricopa County, Arizona. County Attorney Andrew Thomas yesterday announced that he will dismiss all criminal speeding and reckless driving cases brought to him when the only evidence presented is a photo radar ticket. Thomas condemned the process that imposes jail time on those accused of driving 20 MPH over the speed limit without any human witness to the alleged crime.
“The bottom line is, the way the law is written and the way our Cons ution is written, to bring criminal prosecutions based on photo radar evidence only is not something our office can do, or frankly should do, given the Cons utional mandates,” Thomas said.
In 2008 the legislature specifically eliminated license points from tickets issued under the statewide freeway ticketing program (view law). Lawmakers understood that motorists would be more likely to pay tickets without challenge if the only penalty was a $181 monetary fine that did not boost insurance rates or threaten a license suspension. This revised legislative language prohibits criminal prosecution.
“Notwithstanding any other law, if a person is found responsible for a civil traffic violation or a notice of violation pursuant to a citation issued pursuant to this section, the department of transportation shall not consider the violation for the purpose of determining whether the person’s driver license should be suspended or revoked,” Arizona Code Section 41-1722 states. “A court shall not transmit abstracts of records of these violations to the department of transportation.”
[Under state law, criminal speeding is a class three misdemeanor that carries license points and the possibility of license suspension, plus thirty days in jail and a $500 fine.]
Thomas’ decision is a slap in the face to the state Department of Public Safety (DPS) which has used high-profile photo ticket arrests as a public relations tool. In August, for example, a young motorist was led in handcuffs out of the Sky Harbor International Airport with a DPS camera recording the event for distribution to local media. Last week, DPS issued another press release citing similar arrests as a justification for the automated ticketing program.
“Ongoing apprehensions of major violators are further evidence enforcement works,” the press release stated. “DPS recently arrested three suspects for reckless driving and criminal speeding. Video and photos of the suspects are available on request.”
Thomas says he became personally involved after looking more closely at what the state police was asking him to do.
“DPS keeps pressing us on this,” Thomas said. “The cases we are receiving underscore why we have these cons utional rules. Some of the cases that were brought to my attention — there was one case in which the defendant was male but the driver in the photo appeared to be female. In another one the age didn’t match, and a much older woman, someone in her seventies, was the defendant but it appeared that someone else was driving the vehicle.”
Thomas said the proper way to prosecute the crime is to have a live police officer witness the offense, identify the individual responsible and testify to these facts in court.
“You have to have a witness,” Thomas said. “It isn’t something you can just ignore…. The U.S. Supreme Court has upheld a broad interpretation of the rights of defendants under the Confrontation Clause… Arizona courts have interpreted this clause as giving defendants the right to question and cross-examine witnesses. There is no opportunity to question or cross-examine a camera.”Thomas did not offer an opinion on the legality of the civil photo radar citations because his office does not handle them. In January, Maricopa County Justice Court Judge John C. Keegan declared the civil speed camera tickets uncons utional (view decision). The Maricopa County Attorney’s Office is one of fourteen in the state, although many of the other jurisdictions look to Maricopa County for guidance.
Freedom from surveillance in public is not in the Cons ution. The Founding Fathers probably did not envision a time when machines could keep tabs on all our public activities. Because we live in a time where you can't spit without breaking the law, pervasive surveillance means that the government always has a way of coercing you if it chooses. I'm not very libertarian and even I can figure out the end game here.
Sure it is.
Watching everyone all the ing time. Yeah, that's entirely consistent with a free society.I believe that is already illegal.
Bull . You're making things up. It doesn't violate freedom any more than anyone in public watching from a public vantage point.
LOL. And you're all for the state acting with impunity. You would've made a perfect Tory with your mouth around King George's royal shaft.What the redcoats did was way different than a camera, or a police officer passing by. They did as they pleased with impunity.
You ain't got .
You did it again...
If my state sent me a a "camera ticket", I would take a picture and send them "camera money".
The way these work in Phoenix, you hold onto to the ticket and do nothing, 90% of the time nothing happens. The other 10% they serve the ticket to you and the same thing happens that would have if you did something in the first place.
I've gotten cammed 4 times and have paid $0 for any of them.
This is the funniest thing I've heard all day and sig worthy
All I know is that I want my avatar to make your sig.
Also, if you want to see your rights sodomized, visit the National Archive. There's a toothpick sized hole smack dab in the center of the Cons ution made by Cheney himself. I guess he does more than shoot people in the face for fun.
The same thing with me. I got one for running a red light, and I didn't pay it. My license is up for renewal in a couple of weeks, and I got a letter saying I wouldn't get my license renewed due to unpaid tickets. So I called the number on the letter, and it was from a ticket I got for not wearing my seat belt. I guess it doesn't matter if you don't pay those tickets.
I seem to recall reading about somebody that did just that. I'm not sure how it worked out for them.
Have you taken a course of action yet? I'd throw it in the trash along with any idea of supporting big brother.
Electronic surveillance is a waste of materials, electricity, network bandwidth, money, time, and a further way for the state to encroach on personal freedoms.
Upgrading these cameras to video feeds would be an insult to what it means to be free. The cop on every corner analogy is perfect. No one would tolerate that outside of whatever is left of the neo-conservative movement.
If you don't see how cameras reduce freedom you are clueless quite frankly. They are authoritarian symbols; they instill fear and submission to the people around them. People lose the freedom to say what they want and do what they want for fear that big brother will send them a ticket or lock them up.
Imagine video and audio surveillance in every public area. Who the heck is going to do or say anything? Exactly. This is how freedoms die. Here are examples of how authoritarian symbolism diminishes freedom.
1. Jimmy's dad wont let him fly his R/C plane in the park. They could violate some obscure airspace law.
2. Bob won't tell Sally some racist joke even though no one is around; the cameras are listening and we dont want hate speech
3. Joe was about to make a remark to his buddy that involved a hypothetical about assassinating a public figure. Cameras are listening.
4. Jen was going to cross the street since no cars are coming -- but there's a camera and she wouldnt be on a crosswalk
5. Troy needs to take a piss in the bushes. No one is in this rural area... but there is a camera.
6. Fred was about to throw his spoiled food onto the roadside, but theres cameras!
7. Sook was making a legal right turn and broke some technicality, he will be more cautious in the future, and a little paranoid
I mean, does it have to be spelled out how these things are a slippery slope for destroying liberty? These things all seem trivial, but they are what separate places like the U.S. and North Korea in ideology. The only thing electronic authoritarianism does is instill fear and paranoia in people. Even if this is on an unconscious level and a small factor, it is the beginnings of 1984.
good post sabar. slippery slope is exactly what it is.
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