He, and the rest of the French NT trolls, are products of their environment. French employment law got totally out of hand, and the employees had/have so many guarantees that companies have a hard time doing business. It has ed up their economy in so many ways it would take an entire book to describe them all. And any attempt at employment law reform is resisted by the people who benefit from it most - the workers with en lements. Those big riots a couple of years ago? The government had the audacity to say that a company could fire a slacking, worthless 19-year-old, without paying him to go away.
The French are used to the idea that the employees run the ing show. They're never going to listen to any argument that considers the employers status, or ability to make a profit. That's the beauty of socialism - it gets around all those harsh realities.
So forget about any argument that makes sense to you, or most other people here. They literally won't recognize it.
Well seeing as how globalization is the rage in the business world, eventually the sport of basketball may become completely global where FIBA and the NBA merge. Then won't that make everyone happy? No more having to worry about international play because there would only be one league, the GBA , Global Basketball Association.
What a silly conversation.
When Spurs signed the contract with TP, they knew at that time two important things:
1) TP loves playing for France
2) There is nothing legally they can do about it
As many say NBA BB is a business, business is ruled by contracts and laws. If you don't like the contract don't sign it.
After that everybody has his opinion. Nothing wrong to think it's better winning with the FNT than with the Spurs and vice versa.
injuries suck regardless of where they happen. now the cir stances obviously matter, (ie, playing against a doctors recommendation), but as far as we know that hasnt happened (its possible, but I dont like to clench my ass just in case someone decides to kick me).
as for the its a business argument, like Brazil just said, Tony and every single NBA player has guarantees in their contracts that allow them to play in international compe ion. if you dont like that, write the players union and the owners or root for another sport that doesnt have international compe ion (like american football). But dont tell Tony what his contract says, he knows much better than you.
I think if Holt or whoever in the Spurs org requested Tony come back and Tony willingly came back (even if he considered it silly), that shows a good relationship between them. And though it would suck for Tony if he misses his FNT game unnecessarily, it doesnt automatically mean france is screwed, and that hasnt happened (yet at least). Again, I dont understand why people preemptively cry about spilled milk before it is spilled. There is still the possibility that tony can fulfill both his spurs goals and his FNT goals, and nothing to indicate animosity between tony and the spurs. but if bashing soccer or the owner of the franchise or french socialism makes people feel better, go ahead.
Parker is a ball hog...that's why none of these moves make sense and won't amount to anything....
But still parker is the best player in the NBA.
But still parker is the best player in the NBA.
No.
Firstly, you completely ignore the fact that it should be TP's choice - the Spurs have not bought the rights to his life or his soul, they have bought the rights for him to play in the NBA. If TP chooses to play for France in the off-season, that is his right.
Secondly, flip your logic. By your your logic, American players with NBA contracts should also have their destiny decided by their NBA teams. How would you like it if all the American NBA players were told by their clubs that they couldn't represent the USA? I doubt you'd be impressed.
Finally, you can injure yourself on a basketball court no matter the context - training, pickup game, comp game, whatever. Injury is always a risk in basketball, especially ankle sprains. Should players be banned from playing pickup games or training in the offseason? Of course not. It's how they keep fit and improve their games, even though it is an injury risk.
I think it's entirely reasonable that the team recall TP to have the injury examined, but beyond that it's TP's choice to play for his national team or not.
The nba is like any other business, the spurs are paying Tony millions of dollars to play basketball for "them". if playing for France could jeopardize that then the spurs should have the rights to not let him. , the lakers were able to fine Radmanovic for skiing a couple of years ago if I remember correctly. Nobody forced Tony to sign the contract.
That's because it is in some player's contracts that they can't do things like ride motorcycles, ski, etc.
It's not (and probably won't ever be) in any player's contract that they can't play basketball in the offseason.
NBA players play in unsanctioned leagues, rec center pickup games, at UCLA, and a mul ude of other places in the summer, outside of their NBA team practice facility. They're not going to stop them playing basketball.
That goes both ways though, don't you think? The Spurs knew when they resigned Parker to an expensive extension that he would play for France, just as they knew Manu and Oberto would play for Argentina in the Olympics. That's a chance they were willing to take.
True, but the players should be loyal to the teams they are under contract with IMO, if he were healthy then I would have no problem with him playing for his country. I don't blame the spurs or Holt for being cautious, given how last season turned out with Manu.
Thanks Kori, exactly.
And TD4, how about adressing my other points rather than cherry-picking from my argument?
Parker is a national hero. It shouldn't really be hard for Spurfan to understand why this is a big deal to him and his French fans. Yes, it sucks that we're paying double digit millions of dollars to possibly hurt himself and jeopordize everything we pay him for. There are also absolutely no rules against it, and he has made his decision known for quite some time.
All we can do is wait it out. The main worry is his ankle. Parker is young and I don't see him being overplayed this season with GHill and Pop coming along. As long as he isn't gimpy, WGAF.
Everyone on both sides of this argument should remember 2 things:
1. This is a sore subject because of the Manu thing, which rightly or wrongly many Spurs fans believe they lost a season because he played and got injured with his national team. This happened just last year.
2. It isn't an all or nothing question. Maybe the answer is to limit the amount these guys are competing internationally. Every 4 years for the Olympics is one thing, but the way it is now they're playing all the time with qualifying games etc. Pro players NEED AN OFFSEASON to recuperate and regenerate after compe ion. I don't know any professional sport where the athletes compete year round. That is the issue.
I don't know if most fans understand that if Parker were to announce in France that he wouldn't be playing for the national team, it would be much bigger news there than if LeBron or Kobe made the same announcement here. I know most of us look at the situation as fans of the Spurs, but there are other considerations. Like Pop said last year: if he'd been in Ginobili's situation he would have played too.
Parker is the best French basketball player in the world. There is a lot of pressure on him, and I'm sure a lot of ambition too. If he could lead France to a euro-championship or an Olympic medal someday, it would be something that his fans there would remember forever. I worry about injuries too, but as a Tony Parker fan it's hard to deny him a shot at those things.
+ ing 1000
Nobody is blaming Holt for being cautious but everybody is blaming TP for what ? following a Spurs recommendation showing he is not ok with that recommendation ?
TP haters are all damn idiots.
I'm sick of all trade TP, loyalty BS stuff. So far TP is doing exactly what the Spurs want even if legally he is not obliged to do so. Results 10 threads about trade parker, tim must call him, Spurs >>>> FNT, trade his ass for Calderon etc...
Sometimes this board is
I don't blame anyone for being cautious. But some fans don't want their foreign players to play for their NT at all.
IF a player is healthy, he should play for his NT (if he wants to). He might get injured and end his career , and that is sad, but happens.
He might as well become a national hero.
You can't be too afraid of life and its opportunities, or you won't make the best of it.
In the end, it's the player's choice. And I guess there's always a insurance policy to guarantee the team's rights, isn't it?
Trade his butt to Utah for D-Will.
I understand where Tony is coming from and sympatize with him. His is, like Manu, an icon in his homeland. Aside from some soccer players and cyclists Tony is a French idol. He' more revered in France than Kobe or da "King". It's hard for him to be pulled out somewhat unceremoniously. On the other hand, Holt has a right to protect his investment. If Tony isn't 110% healthy he should not play until he is. 90% isn't good enough! Don't you think that the French coach would play Tony at less than 100% in a close game? I do. His ass is on the line to. To use one more example, during the World Cup soccer players leave their pro teams to play for the "honor" of their home countries. To refuse is to become "a man without a country." Tony plays "with" the Spurs but he plays 'for' his country. There is a difference.
I understand Tony wanting to play with his NT. Ask Manu what's more important to him some rings and a 6MOY award or some medals and he would take the medals anyday. The NBA is just a job (of course that he loves) and if the Spurs didn't like it they shouldn't of signed him. He knew the risks and consequences of playing injured and he still did it because he loves it and had no regrets doing it. Of course not only did it hurt our team but it hurt him as well and probably cost him a contract. It should get interesting this next summer with him. He still hasn't officially quit the national team and if he proves he's healthy and back to himself I think the NT might be a big issue that maybe keeps the Spurs and Manu apart from resigning. I don't know if I see Manu a Spur very much longer and I think he's ok with it if it does.
aren't these just friendlies? Doesn't he have to play in the idiotic three team tournament cause his team sucked ass last year. Are the spurs stopping him from playing in the tourney or the friendlies?
didn't want to start a thread about it, so i put it there.
http://www.basketnews.net/asp.net/ma...ls.aspx?blog=9
i'll translate, hoping it will show some of you what some interbational bball fans are thinking. not saying i agree with everything is said, since i'm obviously a NBA fan, but that's the idea.
------------------
Disdain, condescension and hypocrisy.
With Noah come-back to chicago, we thought we had to bear the worse. But TP being called back to check a simple ankle sprain is just ridiculous. And Les Bleus pay the bills: they'll play against Italy without a Parker yet clearly able to play....
After much previous similar events (Diaw insurance problems in the middle of the night, Diawara searching an NBA contract), the relationship story between the NBA and french NT is living his more amazing episode. All begins with Pietrus. After a nice season and great PO, he was forbidden to play with the NT by Orlando. Why ? wrist injury. OK. Mike played through pain for his NBA team which wants to avoid surgery so he has to rest. Here, no problem (almost), because Pietrus could be back with the NT if this one is qualified for the Euro2009 tournament.
But after that, it becomes more annoying with Noah needing to get back to Chicago while he's enjoying and improving with the NT. The Bulls prefers him to train alone in a gym, to gain "6 to 8 kilos of muscle". First comment: to gain so much weight in so few time, what do they intend to make him eat ? Anyway for the bulls, unless they only want him to rebound, preventing him to play with the NT is just stupid, stubborn and a short term way of thinking... and worse, the bulls staff dares to say publicly that it was the player's choice, in order to not make Stern angry, considering the NBA rules about the NT.
And here comes the TP's chapter, who had a simple and mild ankle sprain and "repatriated" few days before a crucial game against Italy, whereas a spurs medical staff member is here in France to confirm the french medical staff diagnosis and despite the fact that the french NT agreed to all the spurs requests. So, tony gets back. Has a medical check. french diagnosis is confirmed. and he will get back in France.... just after the game against Italy.... which means, maybe, when it will be yet too late for the french bball to be saved.
!! Who the NBa teams think they are ? and their coaching staff ? Don't they ever learn anything, after being beaten, summers after summers, by european NT (or argentina), yet composed by way less talented players than the american ones ? Because all these problems between NBA teams and NT, far from being limited to France, show how much the big league, and especially his franchises, are meanly arrogant and disrespectful towards the rest of the world.
and what is the FIBA doing ? It says, from Geneve,.... NOTHING !! NBA teams, years after years, are killing the credibility of its compe ions and still, the FIBA gives them all the honors all the two or four years, just to be sure we will have a Dream Team ersatz playing.
and if, for once, we went to the severe test ? If Patrick Baumann, the FIBA director, made David Stern face his responsabilities in ordering him to let the NBA international players really free ? otherwise, the world would do without NBA stars during FIBA compe ions. What do we have to lose ? Stern knows very well that, in his actual frontiers, the NBA isn't far from having reach his own limits. His product is beautiful - even if impersonal - clean, sparkling, but the NBA, outside the USA, stay a big circus whose games are played in the middle of the night at 10.000 kilometers far away..... Enough for captivating the teenagers, but not for having a real place in the heart of the wide sport audience. In France and elsewhere.
What do we have to lose in such a arm wrestling ? Nothing, IMO. nothing but to win a little bit of respect. which would be good for everyone....
contrary to what this dolt believes, FIBA needs the NBA more than the NBA needs FIBA. stern obviously likes what the world setting does for him and the league, so he's wants to cultivate that relationship. but if push came to absolute shove, the nba could start putting it in the players contracts that they couldn't compete for their NTs - and the vast majority of players around the world would still sign. maybe reluctantly, but they'd still sign.
2008 Olympics basketball final had 1 billion viewers. That is what they said in TV.
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