View Poll Results: Who would be a better second banana?

**benefactor** · 08-06-2009

And there isn't a front line player in the league that Dirk is capable of guarding!

...and our other front line players have been defensive stalwarts.

The Spurs defensive scheme is predicated on two things....Duncan/Bowen taking care of the paint/perimeter and good team defense. As long as Dirk could make the right rotations he would be fine.

**weebo** · 08-06-2009

Originally Posted by benefactor

...and our other front line players have been defensive stalwarts.

The Spurs defensive scheme is predicated on two things....Duncan/Bowen taking care of the paint/perimeter and good team defense. As long as Dirk could make the right rotations he would be fine.

DN lateral quickness is lacking that's why he's been such an ineffective post defender. In this case, his defensive inadequacy would equal that of someone like Bonner. Trust me, I don't have anything against Dirk and I do watch a lot of his games but I understand that Manu has been the better player over the course of his career because his teams have won because of his contributions. Can you say that about Dirk?

And please don't make the argument that his role players choke or haven't been good enough because that is complete bull. Dirk has had great teams around him and he has failed to lead them to a le. Sure he can score on anyone but so can someone like Michael Redd. Does that make him better than Manu?

**ohmwrecker** · 08-06-2009

Offensively, Duncan and Nowitzki have a similar game. Dirk has a little more range, but Duncan destroys Dirk on defense. Which renders the pairing useless. Manu has the skills that Duncan and Nowitzki lack. So, obviously, Duncan and Manu are the superior pair.

**anonoftheinternets** · 08-06-2009

Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Nobody denies Manu's heart..but GOAT level? come on now..

We all love Manu, but we all know there's 2 sides of him..there's the Manu that can dominate a game on both sides, make 5 3s in a row, get his teammates involved, get a nice dunk..and then there's the Manu in the same game, that will start chucking up bad shots, make no-look passes that go out of bounds, and will foul Dirk in a game 7 with the Spurs up by 3..

Manu's a great player, we wouldn't have 3 les without him..but Dirk is a superstar, and this is a superstar's league..when you have the opportunity to have 2 superstars that compliment each other pretty well, you have to take it..

well i was saying duncan, kobe, dirk are GOAT players, and manu can step up to GOAT for a small period of a game (like u said, hit 5 threes .. etc.) because of his heart... never said manu was GOAT level ...

**Findog** · 08-06-2009

Originally Posted by easy7

Yep, just like Dirk's came up in the last four games of the finals in 2006 and in 2007 against the warriors. I mean MVP and number one seed in the playoffs. That is what Dirk brings to the table, too bad he forgets his heart at home. I am sure that if he was with Duncan, he would not be the one of the two making a difference.

Dirk was very good in the Finals. Wade was better. No shame in that. What the are you talking about?

And if the Spurs fans get to whine about Timmeh being banged up and not 100% when the Spurs go fishing, why can't the same apply to Dirk and the Warriors series? He was hurt and still put up 19/10 in that series.

Do you even watch your team? It would be like me constantly tearing down Dwyane Wade, Steve Nash, Chris Paul or any of the the other guys that have owned Dallas in the playoffs. Then again, I'm arguing with an idiot that thinks Manu > Dirk and the Spurs would be worse of if you swapped the two straight up.

**Old School 44** · 08-06-2009

Dirk is a franchise player, Manu is not. Dirk is clearly the number one option for the Mavs. Do you think Manu would have been a franchise player and number one option if he went to a lesser team when he came into the league? I think so, but we will never know. When doing a comparison of the two, Manu is short changed because of it.

Another question, would be how would the Spurs have done the past 10 years if they swapped franchise players, Dirk for Tim?

**Findog** · 08-06-2009

Originally Posted by Old School 44

Dirk is a franchise player, Manu is not. Dirk is clearly the number one option for the Mavs. Do you think Manu would have been a franchise player and number one option if he went to a lesser team when he came into the league? I think so, but we will never know. When doing a comparison of the two, Manu is short changed because of it.

It's ultimately an educated guess, but you can't compare what they've done in their unis, just what they would've done if they had swapped places. Assuming both the Mavs and Spurs would've found "serviceable" replacements for Manu and Dirk, how would those guys have done in each other's spot?

Another question, would be how would the Spurs have done the past 10 years if they swapped franchise players, Dirk for Tim?

At the very least a Finals appearance and probably one championship. Definitely not four. You'll never see me try to make the argument that Tim Duncan is not the greatest 4 of all time.

**Old School 44** · 08-06-2009

Originally Posted by Findog

It's ultimately an educated guess, but you can't compare what they've done in their unis, just what they would've done if they had swapped places. Assuming both the Mavs and Spurs would've found "serviceable" replacements for Manu and Dirk, how would those guys have done in each other's spot?

That's a good point, but it's hard to say, because the op's question says they are in their "prime", which in both cases is top notch. And the question wasn't to see how they would do in each other spots on their respective teams, but whose game would better compliment Duncan's if you replaced one with the other. Sure Dirk/Tim combo would be a beast to handle, but IMO Manu's play making and slashing compliment Duncan's game better.

**Nathan Explosion** · 08-06-2009

Look, I'm a huge Spurs fans (as most of us are) but if you don't pick Dirk, you're lying to yourself.

First off, the "Dirk isn't a playmaker" argument is moot because Duncan initiates the offense on this team. Duncan is the quarterback. Second, the Spurs would have a frontline that would be better than anything the Lakers could throw at them with Odom and Gasol (can't mention Bynum because he's proven nothing). They'd have size and matchup nightmares galore.

Duncan in his prime would eat up the interior, and he'd be able to pass out of a double to Dirk if need be. At his size, Dirk can shoot over anyone.

Now, people are saying that Dirk is a choker, and use the 2006 Finals and 2007 playoffs as proof. Fair enough. Except that on the Spurs, Duncan is the unquestioned leader on the floor, and everyone follows his lead. No one would be looking to Dirk for answers because Tim's got them already.

Duncan in his prime is virtually unguardable. Dirk in his prime is virtually unguardable. When those two are on, what can you do? Who do you double and when? There's too much size on the floor, and way too much talent coming from those two to be beat.

We all love Gino, no doubt and he's a big reason the Spurs won 3 les in 5 years. But with Dirk on the Spurs, starting in 2003, the Spurs would be a mortal lock to win at least two more time since then, and arguably be in the WCF every year as a result of this little switch.

**jag** · 08-06-2009

Originally Posted by Nathan Explosion

Look, I'm a huge Spurs fans (as most of us are) but if you don't pick Dirk, you're lying to yourself.

It's basically Spurs fans who refuse to be objective...and it's annoying.

Dirk has a skill set that is unparalleled when it comes to 7-footers.

**Findog** · 08-06-2009

Originally Posted by Old School 44

That's a good point, but it's hard to say, because the op's question says they are in their "prime", which in both cases is top notch. And the question wasn't to see how they would do in each other spots on their respective teams, but whose game would better compliment Duncan's if you replaced one with the other. Sure Dirk/Tim combo would be a beast to handle, but IMO Manu's play making and slashing compliment Duncan's game better.

Nathan Explosion above lays it out better than I can, but you go with what is harder to defend. No doubt Manu was an integral part of 3 championships. It's simply true on its face that if the Spurs could've swapped them out straight up, they could've found any number of serviceable shooting guards and would still be much better.

**baseline bum** · 08-06-2009

Um, Dirk since he's at worst a top 10 player in this league, since he's a much better shooter, since he gets to the line more, since he can rebound better, and since he's an impossible matchup for most teams. I'd rather have one Dirk than two Manus.

**Nathan Explosion** · 08-06-2009

Originally Posted by baseline bum

I'd rather have one Dirk than two Manus.

Now that, I'd have to think about. While Dirk is an almost impossible guard, can you imagine having two 2005 Ginos running around creating havoc for the other team? Two Gino's WOULD be impossible to guard.

Of course, on the flip side, Pop would be bald from tearing his hair out at some of the crazy plays the Ginos would try.

**timvp** · 08-06-2009

As much as I like Manu, it takes a homer to pick Manu over Dirk. The only way you can say Manu is if you are talking about having him for one big game or one quarter ... and even that remains a homer take. If you are talking about a whole season or a whole playoff run, it absolutely has to be Dirk.

It becomes even more true if you add TD to the equation. Imagine the nightmares of a team trying to defend Duncan in the blocks while their second bigman needs to be glued to Dirk. TD thrives when paired with a perimeter shooting bigman and Dirk is the best perimeter shooting bigman of all-time.

Now that I think about it, the better case can be made for Manu over Kobe than Manu over Dirk. There just isn't a legit argument for Manu over Dirk ... especially when factoring in Duncan.

**IronMexican** · 08-06-2009

Definitely Dirk. The fact that Dirk is winning on a Spurs message board says it all.

**Nathan Explosion** · 08-06-2009

Originally Posted by timvp

Now that I think about it, the better case can be made for Manu over Kobe than Manu over Dirk.

The only case to be made for that is Kobe may not accept a role as second banana to Duncan. However, knowing Duncan, he may sacrifice his stats for the sake of winning, so the point may be moot as well.

**ElNono** · 08-06-2009

Originally Posted by timvp

As much as I like Manu, it takes a homer to pick Manu over Dirk. The only way you can say Manu is if you are talking about having him for one big game or one quarter ... and even that remains a homer take. If you are talking about a whole season or a whole playoff run, it absolutely has to be Dirk.

It becomes even more true if you add TD to the equation. Imagine the nightmares of a team trying to defend Duncan in the blocks while their second bigman needs to be glued to Dirk. TD thrives when paired with a perimeter shooting bigman and Dirk is the best perimeter shooting bigman of all-time.

Now that I think about it, the better case can be made for Manu over Kobe than Manu over Dirk. There just isn't a legit argument for Manu over Dirk ... especially when factoring in Duncan.

Then comes the last free throw in the NBA Finals game that could decide the series. One of those guys is going to make it, and the other won't.
One will proceed to become a giant vajeje for the rest of the series, the other will lead to a championship.
When Duncan gets triple teamed, and you know it's going to happen, one will create for himself and others, the other player will hide behind the SJAXs of this league.
One will make a key steal and dunk to change the momentum of a game, the other will gladly provide a direct line to the basket in the middle of the paint.

Call me a homer. I'm taking the guy with balls to the wall.

**dirk4mvp** · 08-06-2009

Originally Posted by ElNono

Then comes the last free throw in the NBA Finals game that could decide the series. One of those guys is going to make it, and the other won't.
One will proceed to become a giant vajeje for the rest of the series, the other will lead to a championship.
When Duncan gets triple teamed, and you know it's going to happen, one will create for himself and others, the other player will hide behind the SJAXs of this league.
One will make a key steal and dunk to change the momentum of a game, the other will gladly provide a direct line to the basket in the middle of the paint.

Call me a homer. I'm taking the guy with balls to the wall.

That's funny cuz Dirk made the free throw after Manu helped send his own team packing in 06.