is manu the best international player of all time?

[Findog]

The offense ran through Nash, not Dirk all those seasons that they played together.

Dirk has been the Mavericks best player since the 01-02 season. That's when he emerged as our #1 guy. Nash and Finley were still on the roster.

Fact of the matter is that Dirk has only been the No. 1 guy since Nash bolted for Phoenix....

Wrong. Dirk has been the #1 guy since early in the 01-02 season.

nd he has had very capable, all-star caliber players around him his whole career. The Mavs are still ringless.

And they would've never sniffed a Conference Finals appearance, much less a Finals, with Manu instead of Dirk.

[Phenomanul]

Yeah, I'm real impressed with Manu being the 2nd-best player on a le team. Or that he won a Gold with a stacked Argentinian squad. Swap out Dirk for Manu on any squad and they're better off.

Manu > LBJ I guess, since he has 3 more rings and was the best player on a Gold Medal Squad.

Talentwise, Team USA was far superior to Argentina's squad. It's not even debateable.

Manu singlehandedly willed his team to a Gold... you must not have seen his performances against the US both at the 2002 WC in Indianapolis or at the 2004 Athens games...

And since you like debating hypotheticals... swapping Manu with Dirk on that Argentinian squad would have resulted in a victory for the US Squad.... simple as that.

[Phenomanul]

And they would've never sniffed a Conference Finals appearance, much less a Finals, with Manu instead of Dirk.

Which is why Manu's win-shares are only second to Larry Legend's???

Try again.

[Findog]

And since you like debating hypotheticals... swapping Manu with Dirk on that Argentinian squad would have resulted in a victory for the US Squad.... simple as that.

Germany doesn't qualify for the Olympics with Manu instead of Dirk.

[ElNono]

LOL Dirk... He's as accomplished in the international stage as JJ Barea...

Nowinski needs to win something at ANY level to even take part in this thread...

[Findog]

Which is why Manu's win-shares are only second to Larry Legend's???

Try again.

Win shares? Win shares? What the is that? Are you citing Dave Berri as an authority figure, the same guy who said Dennis Rodman was a more productive player than Michael Jordan on the second run of Bulls le teams?

What exactly is your argument? Manu > Dirk?

[ElNono]

[Rogue]

LOL Dirk... He's as accomplished in the international stage as JJ Barea...

Nowinski needs to win something at ANY level to even take part in this thread...

NBA regular season MOST VALUABLE PLAYER

Even Mbenga has got a ring, and delfino has also got a Gold medal together with Manu.

[Findog]

LOL Dirk... He's as accomplished in the international stage as JJ Barea...

If Manu could take that German team farther than Dirk, then there would be something to your argument. It's like saying Amare is better than KG because the Suns were winning 55+ games and going to the playoffs while the Wolves were in lottery land.

Nowitski needs to win something at ANY level to even take part in this thread...

Dirk has 1 more Finals appearance than Manu does as the best player on his team. When the day comes that a team wins a le with Manu as the best player, then I'll concede Manu is a better player than Dirk.

[Phenomanul]

The Mavs wouldn't have gone that far in 06 without Dirk, not to mention winning the championship eventually.

But they didn't.

Of course, it's not a doable job for Manu to carry 14 jump shooters into the NBA finals.

How would anyone know for sure?

And I can pledge you that the Spurs would have won 5 championships in a row from 03-07 with Manu swapped for Dirk.

Derek Fisher's 0.4 and one mistake by Manu (which couldn't negate the incredibly horrid officiating in games 3, and 4).

Could have led to the same scenario.... except this one is far more plausible.

It simply wasn't meant to be... Nevertheless the 2004 and 2006 versions of the Spurs were still Championship Level Squads.

I would say Robert Horry is a better player than Manu if the rings are used as the only measurement to judge a player.

Robert is a unique and highly clutch player... his greatest gift however, was knowing how to pair up with the dominant big-men of his day.

[jag]

The Argies who come in here and attempt to convince everyone that Manu > Dirk make actual Spurs fans look re ed.

[Phenomanul]

Germany doesn't qualify for the Olympics with Manu instead of Dirk.

So does an Argentina squad with Dirk instead of Manu beat the US in both 2002 and 2004???

[Phenomanul]

The Argies who come in here and attempt to convince everyone that Manu > Dirk make actual Spurs fans look re ed.

I'm not Argentinian...

[jag]

I'm not Argentinian...

Even worse...

[Findog]

So does an Argentina squad with Dirk instead of Manu beat the US in both 2002 and 2004???

I'd like their chances...because if Dirk were born in Argentina, that means he'd be playing with the national squad and developing chemistry over a long span of time just like Manu did...whereas the US squads were thrown together in a haphazard fashion with little emphasis on what works in FIBA as opposed to the NBA.

[ElNono]

If Manu could take that German team farther than Dirk, then there would be something to your argument. It's like saying Amare is better than KG because the Suns were winning 55+ games and going to the playoffs while the Wolves were in lottery land.

You would have a point if those Argentina teams would have even won a single medal without Ginobili. He had talented teammates, but none a superstar, except himself. He doesn't play for Germany, so we won't know.

Dirk has 1 more Finals appearance than Manu does as the best player on his team. When the day comes that a team wins a le with Manu as the best player, then I'll concede Manu is a better player than Dirk.

That's actually very incorrect. Manu has 3 more Finals appearances than Dirk as the best player on his team, including winning 3 and being the tournament AND Finals MVP.

[Findog]

That's actually very incorrect. Manu has 3 more Finals appearances than Dirk as the best player on his team,

[jag]

That's actually very incorrect. Manu has 3 more Finals appearances than Dirk as the best player on his team, including winning 3 and being the tournament AND Finals MVP.

Manu has been on better teams and had better coaching...but as far as individual talent, i have no idea how anyone can argue that Manu is a better player.

[ElNono]

The Argies who come in here and attempt to convince everyone that Manu > Dirk make actual Spurs fans look re ed.

Career wise, it's not even up for debate: Manu > Dirk. If you're just talking innate basketball talent, then Dirk is the more talented player. T-Mac is arguably more talented than Manu too if you were to play a one on one game.
But we're talking basketball, where you have to consider much more than simply who scores more.

[Phenomanul]

If Manu could take that German team farther than Dirk, then there would be something to your argument. It's like saying Amare is better than KG because the Suns were winning 55+ games and going to the playoffs while the Wolves were in lottery land.

Dirk has 1 more Finals appearance than Manu does as the best player on his team. When the day comes that a team wins a le with Manu as the best player, then I'll concede Manu is a better player than Dirk.

Manu has been the best player on every team he's played for not named the San Antonio Spurs...

Result:

He's won with every team, at every level... it's not his fault he was paired up with someone greater (Tim Duncan) during the prime of his career... an event which would preclude the silly criteria you are gauging him by (not being the No.1 guy on an NBA team)...

[ElNono]

I'm not talking about his Spurs years...

[Findog]

Career wise, it's not even up for debate: Manu > Dirk. If you're just talking innate basketball talent, then Dirk is the more talented player. T-Mac is arguably more talented than Manu too if you were to play a one on one game.
But we're talking basketball, where you have to consider much more than simply who scores more.

Manu has more hardware. That doesn't mean he's had the better career. By that I reckon Robert Horry > Kobe Bryant.

[Rogue]

You would have a point if those Argentina teams would have even won a single medal without Ginobili. He had talented teammates, but none a superstar, except himself. He doesn't play for Germany, so we won't know.



That's actually very incorrect. Manu has 3 more Finals appearances than Dirk as the best player on his team, including winning 3 and being the tournament AND Finals MVP.

Manu was the MVP in 05 finals, but still not enough to beat Dirk who carried a jump-shooting team to NBA finals in the next year and got elected regular season MVP in the second season.

[Findog]

I'm not talking about his Spurs years...

I'm not aware of Manu making it to the Finals 3 times otherwise.

[ElNono]

Manu has been on better teams and had better coaching...but as far as individual talent, i have no idea how anyone can argue that Manu is a better player.

Dirk can make more shots more often. That's talent. There's much more to basketball than that.