But what about also "best in FIBA game".
hmmm... you can't get to the Finals to beat a weaker Italian team without knocking out the Favorites... (Team USA)...
Ginobili, led them to that game even if he didn't crank it up a notch in the Final game itself... but against the US, he simply went ballistic... let's not forget his last second game-winning shot earlier in the tournament... He was afterall voted as the tournament's most valuable player...
Another thing, why must all your posts be so belligerent?
On any other team with an all star, dirk would be option 2 maybe 3. DN is nothing more than an offensive player. Plus, he's never won and probably never will.
You cannot say as some are that "he willed his team to gold by himself"
That is crazy when Scola was the by far best player in the gold medal game. When he has Scola and Nocioni with great tournaments also on his same team.
Some are making it sound like he was on a one man team which is ridiculous.
You're a Spurs fan? Have you ever watched Dirk play?On any other team with an all star, dirk would be option 2 maybe 3. DN is nothing more than an offensive player. Plus, he's never won and probably never will.
Also you forget something...........Italy was not the weaker team. Italy ALREADY defeated Team USA before Argentina did.
I hope this is a joke.
Manu is the only player to win the Euroleague, an Olympic gold medal, and an NBA le. Can you say that about the mighty dirk?
And yes I have watched dirk play, many a time actually. I do believe that his offensive skill is so much greater than Manu's but there is more to the game of basketball than filling up a stat sheet with points.
If dirk had any semblance of adequate defense and leadership, I would rank him higher than Manu. However, offense alone and one mvp (which could have easily gone to kobe) doesn't trump Manu's entire body of work and skill set.
I know you get defensive when people are dumping on your guy, but facts are facts. Manu just by what his teams have done and what he has contributed to those championship teams make him better than dirk.
The only joke around here is you. Until dirk proves than he can lead a team to a championship as the number one banana, he'll be just another good player that couldn't get it done.
1) Dirk was a good NBA player by the time he was 21. Manu didn't make his NBA debut till he was 25 while he honed his game in Europe. I could care less about what Alex Rodriguez, Vladimir Guerrero or Albert Pujols did in Double A or what minor league hardware they picked up along the way. I'm not impressed one bit by his Italian League bull or that he won a Gold Medal. If Dirk had played in Europe till he was 25, he'd had plenty of bling too.
2) Manu played on stacked Argentine squads in FIBA play while Dirk was surrounded by total scrubs on Germany. Who cares about Olympic play?
3) When Manu is the best player on a championship team, then I'll concede he's better than Dirk. Until then, he has one less Finals appearance as a #1 guy.
Dirk rebounds well for a PF and is a decent defender. He's also a matchup nightmare that creates opportunities for his teammates.And yes I have watched dirk play, many a time actually. I do believe that his offensive skill is so much greater than Manu's but there is more to the game of basketball than filling up a stat sheet with points.
Well, it's obvious now that you must follow the Spurs through box scores only. Dirk has worked himself into an adequate defender under Avery, and he's led his team to more success as a #1 guy than Manu has. If Manu is your best player, you're scrapping for that 8th seed. Dirk was the best player on a team that came within an inch of winning a le. You're not very good at this, are you?If dirk had any semblance of adequate defense and leadership, I would rank him higher than Manu.
Exactly. Dirk has much more team success as a franchise player than Manu does. It's like saying Horry or Michael Doleac > Dirk based on their rings. Horry is a role player; Dirk is a franchise player. Doleac is an end of the bench player; Dirk is a franchise player. Manu is a borderline All Star; Dirk is a franchise player. Is any of this sinking in for you?However, offense alone and one mvp (which could have easily gone to kobe) doesn't trump Manu's entire body of work and skill set.
I know you get defensive when people are dumping on your guy, but facts are facts.
I'm not getting defensive, I'm just shredding your arguments.
So Double A baseball championships trump World Series appearances. Got it.Manu just by what his teams have done and what he has contributed to those championship teams make him better than dirk.
Manu could have come to the NBA sooner... if it took him that long to make the "jump" it was partly a matter of choice but mostly because outside of Pepe Sanchez, Argentinians were considered "unknown" quan ies by NBA executives... no one in the US ever bothered to scout Argentina as a 'potential' basketball powerhouse... But Manu was able to prove to the Spurs that he belonged with the World's best simply by doing what he does best... WIN... after only one year, the NBA took notice.
In fact, Manu's efforts were transcendent in that it opened the door so that other Argentinians could also come to the NBA... that was no coincidence...
Ginobili made an instant impact on the Spurs despite a lack of minutes (and because he was recovering from a serious injury imparted by Nowitzki's team, no less) but mostly because he had to earn Popovich's trust... Nevertheless, Pop is on record stating that it was he who had to adapt to Ginobili's game, and not the other way around; that "the leash he had placed on Ginobili was too short"... that he had erred with respect to letting him come on to his own.
Ginobili, much like Scola, could have come into the league years before they actually did... Again, you are holding another hypothetical against him... Ginobili simply played the hand that was dealt to him.... but he won nonetheless.
I shudder to think what would've happenned if Ginobili had made the jump to the NBA in 2001. The Lakers wouldn't have swept the Spurs that season, when Derek Anderson was mauled by a dirty Maverick (sorry couldn't resist).
Who knew league MVP awards were just handed to 2nd and 3rd options nowadays?
Whatever. Dirk was taken 9th overall as an 18 year old and the Mavericks did not want to let him season up in Europe. Manu was like the next to last pick of the entire draft...and if he had shown what Dirk had, not only would he have gone much higher, but Popovich would've been on the first plane to Argentina to convince him to come to the NBA and buy him out from whatever obligation he had in Europe.
If Duncan were his teammate, or Shaq in his day, or Kobe, or Lebron, would you consider DN the first option??? I sure as wouldn't. The guy is a 7 foot shooting guard, with little play making ability. That was my point.
Ummm, o guys, Steve Nash is the best. Obviously.
Well then I guess that means there's only 4 first options in the entire league, because no one in would be moved ahead of those guys. Who knew the Celtics won the 08 championship without a first option? Or the Heat. Or the Pistons.
Find anybody in this thread who says Dirk is better than those guys. Those are ALL franchise players. Dirk is still a Top 10 player. At worst there are 20 teams that don't have a player as good as him.
Dirk is a seven footer... if you don't understand the significance of that difference, and how it impacts the NBA draft... then you don't know much about the draft process... By NBA standards Olowakandi, Swift, Bynum and most other seven footers have always been sought after commodities... (see Thabeet). The jury is still out on Oden. 6'-7" guards, on the other hand, are a dime in a dozen. And maybe this hasn't really sunk... But Ginobili is from Argentina... the fact that he was drafted at all, is a testament that he was turning "heads"... (a fortunate flip of a coin made sure of that).
That is significant because "Argentina" and "basketball" were probably two words you never heard together in a draft room prior to Manu's arrival to the league... after 2003, that was no longer the case. As for Pepe Sanchez, he wasn't a completely unknown commodity because he played at Temple.
I could care less what Ginobili's draft position was... He was the "guinea pig" player that opened the floodgates for his fellow countrymen to even be considered... Your argument against his age and when he entered the league holds very little worth... again, Manu simply played the hand that was dealt to him...
Manu had to prove to the NBA that he belonged... check out his clips in the Italian league... he was quicker, and far more athletic than at any point in his NBA career.
He's always been gifted with that unorthodox style that is unique only to him... and a playmaking ability that few can surpass...
You're unintentionally making my argument for me. Dirk was gifted and big. Manu was not as tall and came across as a project. The fact that Dirk's height has a great deal to do with his dominance (high-release point on jumper) is irrelevant. He is better, period.
No... way to side-step the argument altogether...
You're the one holding the cir stances of Ginobili's arrival to the league against him... not me.
By your standards the choice to select Michael Olowokandi as the No. 1 overall pick of his draft class was justified simply based on his height and potential talent. "High" draft busts are far more common than draft gems selected 57th overall. Ginobili was the steal of the decade.
BTW I always felt that Jordan made a huge mistake as GM for the Wizards when he passed over Pau Gasol in order to take Kwame Brown. Why was Gasol passed over? 'Cause much like Argentinians, Spaniards were completely unknown commodities as far as basketball decisions were concerned. The only difference was that Gasol was a legit seven footer... And unlike Dirk, Pau garnered ROY honors.
Clippers. Enough said.
So? Dirk is a better player. He kicked Pau's teeth in the only time they met in the playoffs. And that was a 50-win team with a lot of good players that Gasol was surrounded with.he only difference was that Gasol was a legit seven footer... And unlike Dirk, Pau garnered ROY honors.
A decision which Popovich is on record as having lamented. FACT
The Grizzlies. Enough said.
Try to keep up.
Bad basis of comparison.
That was because Gasol came into the league a lot more polished than Dirk. Doesn't necessarily mean he's the better player overall.
Again, bad basis of comparison.The Grizzlies. Enough said.
Try to keep up.
Those Grizzlies were nowhere near the pathetic excuse of a team they are nowadays.
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