is manu the best international player of all time?

[anakha]

That's true, but the achievement could be different. Did Bradley won the Erouleague's MVP, Olympics' MVP and came one vote short of beign NBA finals MVP?

I really don't know. Did he won the MVP of any of those tournaments?

Was that the original argument?

The only statement put forward previously was that Manu was the first person to win Euroleague, Olympic and NBA les.

Sure, if you change the topic to cover MVPs, then Manu may indeed be the first person to do so. But that doesn't make the original statement any less wrong.

[ElNono]

Are you re ed?
Stop embarrasing yourself.

You still didn't answer the question, Gyro. You like to preach how much you know about the history of Europe basketball, well, here's your chance to shine: Was it called 'Euroleague' in 1965-66? Yes or No.

I do not know where some Spurs fans are getting this info that Manu was the only player to win NBA, Euroleague, and Olympics but it is certainly wrong information.

Bradley didn't win the Euroleague.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

That's true, but the achievement could be different. Did Bradley won the Erouleague's MVP, Olympics' MVP and came one vote short of beign NBA finals MVP?

I really don't know. Did he won the MVP of any of those tournaments?

He is not list in NBA finals MVP and neither is Manu. So neither of them have this.

As far as I know Olympics only had MVP award in 2004. None of the other Olympics ever had MVP award as far as I remember that was the first time and in 2008 the award was canceled. So I am not sure how to credit this. Also there was 2 MVP awards.

2004 Olympics had MVP award and Final MVP. Scola was final MVP. So there is only just those 2 in history of Olympics. So is hard for anyone else to have won the award because only players that were in 2004 games had the chance.

Euroleague did not have a MVP award in 1966. First time MVP award existed in Euroleague was in 1988 when they created Final Four for first time. When Manu won MVP of Final Four in 2001 there was 2 awards and so it is asterisk.

Half of the teams did not play in Euroleague that year, actually the two best teams of Europe then in that era was Maccabi and PAO and they both were not in the league. So Manu's Euroleague championship and MVP in Final Four is actually an asterisk le and MVP. Only time in history that half the league did not play.

I am not taking away from Manu's great accomplishments there but obviously NBA fans have exaggerated a lot of stuff about some of that.

[Admiral]

Sabonis is probably the most talented international basketball player, but most Americans did not get to see him during his prime. Still, he had some solid years in the NBA.

Although most here won't like my saying it, I don't see how Manu could be ranked ahead of Dirk Nowitzki. This isn't even close, guys.

Toni Kukoc came into the league with a lot of hype, and was obviously good in Europe, but I'm not convinced that he would be ahead of Manu. I give Manu the slight edge on this one.

[DAF86]

Was that the original argument?

The only statement put forward previously was that Manu was the first person to win Euroleague, Olympic and NBA les.

Sure, if you change the topic to cover MVPs, then Manu may indeed be the first person to do so. But that doesn't make the original statement any less wrong.

I don't know and I don't care what ElNono and KBP are arguing about, I just want to know if Bradley won the MVP of any of those tournaments, 'cause I'm looking the information and I can't find it, so if somebody knows and shares the knolowdge I'd appreciate it.

[ElNono]

Was that the original argument?

The only statement put forward previously was that Manu was the first person to win Euroleague, Olympic and NBA les.

Sure, if you change the topic to cover MVPs, then Manu may indeed be the first person to do so. But that doesn't make the original statement any less wrong.

How many NBA championships the Lakers have won? Do you count the ABA championships when posed with that question?
The Euroleague is no different. It changed names, formats, ownership and everything else throughout the years. It was a different league back then, and had a different name. Back then it was the most prestigious Euro le, not so today.
For all intents and purposes the two leagues are simply not the same.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

You still didn't answer the question, Gyro. You like to preach how much you know about the history of Europe basketball, well, here's your chance to shine: Was it called 'Euroleague' in 1965-66? Yes or No.



Bradley didn't win the Euroleague.

You are a moron. Euroleague's OWN WEBSITE:

http://www.euroleague.net/history

Notice it is called Euroleague.net and history on the web address?

Notice it says at the page "The Euroleague History Archive"

Notice on the right it says "Through The Decades"

The Fifties
The Sixties
The Seventies
The Eighties
The Nineties



You are just dumb. I guess according to you if tomorrow the NBA changes the name or someone besides Stern and them take over then according to you officially the Spurs will have "never won any championships" So then you can erase Manu from this list because no more championships with the Spurs then either.

Stop being a dumb ass.

[DAF86]

He is not list in NBA finals MVP and neither is Manu. So neither of them have this.

As far as I know Olympics only had MVP award in 2004. None of the other Olympics ever had MVP award as far as I remember that was the first time and in 2008 the award was canceled. So I am not sure how to credit this. Also there was 2 MVP awards.

2004 Olympics had MVP award and Final MVP. Scola was final MVP. So there is only just those 2 in history of Olympics. So is hard for anyone else to have won the award because only players that were in 2004 games had the chance.

Euroleague did not have a MVP award in 1966. First time MVP award existed in Euroleague was in 1988 when they created Final Four for first time. When Manu won MVP of Final Four in 2001 there was 2 awards and so it is asterisk.

Half of the teams did not play in Euroleague that year, actually the two best teams of Europe then in that era was Maccabi and PAO and they both were not in the league. So Manu's Euroleague championship and MVP in Final Four is actually an asterisk le and MVP. Only time in history that half the league did not play.

I am not taking away from Manu's great accomplishments there but obviously NBA fans have exaggerated a lot of stuff about some of that.

Thanks.

[MmP]

To me it's stupid to put an asterisk on Manu's Euro MVP and Olympics MVP cause it was the first time. Maybe Im getting u wrong, but that doesn't underrated anything. It means Manu was the best of that tournament, it doesn't matter that theres an award in the middle, or that some teams were out of the tournament. Anybody who watched that tournaments knows that by far he was the best player of it. Same as the euroleague of 2001.

It's the same thing to put an asterik saying that Spurs won 2007 cause the Pho series was tainted with Amare not playing in game 5. Spurs won, and that's only what matters and nobody can downgrade it. It's a le, either Amere played or not doesn't matter. Manu was the best of 2004 olympics, over TD, Lebron, Bodiroga and many more. So why use those conditionals?

Just my opinion.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

I don't know and I don't care what ElNono and KBP are arguing about, I just want to know if Bradley won the MVP of any of those tournaments, 'cause I'm looking the information and I can't find it, so if somebody knows and shares the knolowdge I'd appreciate it.

I told you.

Euroleague did not have a MVP award until 1988.

Olympics only had MVP awards in 2004. Never before and it was removed also for 2008.

Scola was final MVP and Manu tournament MVP. No other Olympics has MVP awards.

So when Bradley played in Olympics and Euroleague there was no MVP award. Hope that helps.

[anakha]

I don't know and I don't care what ElNono and KBP are arguing about, I just want to know if Bradley won the MVP of any of those tournaments, 'cause I'm looking the information and I can't find it, so if somebody knows and shares the knolowdge I'd appreciate it.

Good luck finding those, then.

I don't think MVP awards were being given out in that time.

[anakha]

How many NBA championships the Lakers have won? Do you count the ABA championships when posed with that question?
The Euroleague is no different. It changed names, formats, ownership and everything else throughout the years. It was a different league back then, and had a different name. Back then it was the most prestigious Euro le, not so today.
For all intents and purposes the two leagues are simply not the same.

Yes, the NBA counts the Lakers' Minneapolis les while that team was part of the BAA.

So your argument holds no water.

[DAF86]

Good luck finding those, then.

I don't think MVP awards were being given out in that time.

That's why I couldn't find it

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

To me it's stupid to put an asterisk on Manu's Euro MVP and Olympics MVP cause it was the first time. Maybe Im getting u wrong, but that doesn't underrated anything. It means Manu was the best of that tournament, it doesn't matter that theres an award in the middle, anybody who watched that tournaments knows that by far he was the best player of it. Same as the euroleague of 2001.

In over 50 years of time Manu's Euroleague le and MVP was the only one where all the clubs were not in the League. Think if half the NBA teams boycotted the league next season. Yes there is an asterisk there.

Also the Olympics MVP was not the first it was actually the only one, even in 2008 the award was removed. So of course Manu's accomplishments are amazing but it is a little bit funny to say "well he is the ONLY one to do such and such" when actually some of these things were not even possible for others.

Olympic MVP would not be such a unique accomplishment if every Olympics instead of just one had the award. Sure it is wonderful to be champion of world and MVP by winning Olympics but the MVP thing is like almost not important since no other time they gave one.

[ElNono]

You are a moron.

There's no need to insult me. Just answer the question. Yes or No.

You are just dumb. I guess according to you if tomorrow the NBA changes the name or someone besides Stern and them take over then according to you officially the Spurs will have "never won any championships" So then you can erase Manu from this list because no more championships with the Spurs then either.

Stop being a dumb ass.

What's dumb about it? If the NBA would be renamed to the KBP league tomorrow, both Manu and the Spurs would have exactly zero KBP les. It's actually logical.
Nobody is claiming Bradley didn't win that Euro championship. He just didn't win the Euroleague.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

How many NBA championships the Lakers have won? Do you count the ABA championships when posed with that question?
The Euroleague is no different. It changed names, formats, ownership and everything else throughout the years. It was a different league back then, and had a different name. Back then it was the most prestigious Euro le, not so today.
For all intents and purposes the two leagues are simply not the same.

WTF? Lakers never played in ABA.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

It changed names, formats, ownership and everything else throughout the years. It was a different league back then, and had a different name. Back then it was the most prestigious Euro le, not so today.
For all intents and purposes the two leagues are simply not the same.

You are just an idiot. WTF is this "different league" ? It is the SAME league idiot.

[DAF86]

In over 50 years of time Manu's Euroleague le and MVP was the only one where all the clubs were not in the League. Think if half the NBA teams boycotted the league next season. Yes there is an asterisk there.

Also the Olympics MVP was not the first it was actually the only one, even in 2008 the award was removed. So of course Manu's accomplishments are amazing but it is a little bit funny to say "well he is the ONLY one to do such and such" when actually some of these things were not even possible for others.

Olympic MVP would not be such a unique accomplishment if every Olympics instead of just one had the award. Sure it is wonderful to be champion of world and MVP by winning Olympics but the MVP thing is like almost not important since no other time they gave one.

That Kinder Bologna team was the best of Europe that year, they would have won it either way.

And I didn't know about the MVP thing on the olympics, in fact I think I read of some players that got MVP distinction on the Olympics but I guess I may have missread that.

[anakha]

If the NBA would be renamed to the KBP league tomorrow, both Manu and the Spurs would have exactly zero KBP les. It's actually logical.

That would only be true in that scenario if the KBP league itself did not recognize any of the previous championships at all.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

It's the same thing to put an asterik saying that Spurs won 2007 cause the Pho series was tainted with Amare not playing in game 5. Spurs won, and that's only what matters and nobody can downgrade it. It's a le, either Amere played or not doesn't matter. Manu was the best of 2004 olympics, over TD, Lebron, Bodiroga and many more. So why use those conditionals?

Just my opinion.

Maybe I am not being clear. There was 2 MVPs and 2 champions the year Manu was champion and MVP.

So yes it is officially a asterisk. I mean it is listed officially even that way.

[ElNono]

WTF? Lakers never played in ABA.

I meant the NBL...

[anakha]

i meant the nbl...

BAA, not NBL.

Edit: Just double-checked my history. My mistake. Carry on.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

That's why I couldn't find it

If this helps you can see the Euroleague started in 1988

http://www.euroleague.net/news/i/11836/180/item

As you can see no award until 1988 year when they began the Final Four. Also once again you can see El Nono is an idiot.

[ElNono]

You are just an idiot. WTF is this "different league" ? It is the SAME league idiot.

Did the Final Four exist in 1965? Yes or No.
Did the MVP award exist in 1965? Yes or No.
Did the ownership of the league remained the same since 1965? Yes or No.
Did the name remained the same since 1965? Yes or No.

Stop dodging the questions. Answer.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

There's no need to insult me. Just answer the question. Yes or No.



What's dumb about it? If the NBA would be renamed to the KBP league tomorrow, both Manu and the Spurs would have exactly zero KBP les. It's actually logical.
Nobody is claiming Bradley didn't win that Euro championship. He just didn't win the Euroleague.

So the myth he was only person to win all started with you I guess then?