is manu the best international player of all time?

[Rogue]

If this helps you can see the Euroleague started in 1988

http://www.euroleague.net/news/i/11836/180/item

As you can see no award until 1988 year when they began the Final Four. Also once again you can see El Nono is an idiot.

The idiot calling ElNono an idiot is actually the real idiot.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

That Kinder Bologna team was the best of Europe that year, they would have won it either way.

And I didn't know about the MVP thing on the olympics, in fact I think I read of some players that got MVP distinction on the Olympics but I guess I may have missread that.

In Greece they made it just for there. I guess I could be wrong but pretty sure it was just Greece that gave the MVP. If not who was MVP in China?

[ElNono]

If this helps you can see the Euroleague started in 1988

Now we just need you to see it and we'll be all set.

[MmP]

In over 50 years of time Manu's Euroleague le and MVP was the only one where all the clubs were not in the League. Think if half the NBA teams boycotted the league next season. Yes there is an asterisk there.

Well if half of the teams and didn't play next season. Would you still be exited in June if Spurs win it all? I don't know about you, but it's not like the Spurs made the other teams not playing. So in the end you're still a champion.
Same with EuroLeague. I see your point but Kinder Bologna didn't make the other teams not to play. And even if the play what tells you that they'd still didn't win?
What I say you can put an asterisk but when the years pass in the end you won a tle, and nothing else matters cause if you starting thinking in conditionals well then every champion in the history of sports has to be asterisked.
What if Horry 3 pointer with Lakers did fall in that game 5 in 2003?
What if Manu didn't foul Dirk? Never mind, cause Miami won and they don't fill a bit bad thinking "Man, If the spurs had gotten to the finals we would have been screwed" cause they are the 2006 champions. And so on with every single NBA championship.

Also the Olympics MVP was not the first it was actually the only one, even in 2008 the award was removed. So of course Manu's accomplishments are amazing but it is a little bit funny to say "well he is the ONLY one to do such and such" when actually some of these things were not even possible for others.

I agree it's bad to say "He's the only one in the history of olympic bball to win an MVP award". But that still doesn't make it bad to call him the 2004 MVP tournament. That doesn't downgrade Manu's performance because he was the proven best of that tournament.

Olympic MVP would not be such a unique accomplishment if every Olympics instead of just one had the award. Sure it is wonderful to be champion of world and MVP by winning Olympics but the MVP thing is like almost not important since no other time they gave one.

It is unique accomplishment because Manu won an MVP of a tournament that it's played every four years. And Kobe would have been last years MVP I think, but that doesn't make Manu's accomplishment less valuable or anything. And it's not his responsability he won it, then FIBA took it out but it's still in his resume. You could say that Kobe deserved last year's and probably add it to his resume. That doesn't downgrade Manu's performance at all..

Just my opinon, I see what your say but I don't agree. I respect your opinion.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Did the Final Four exist in 1965? Yes or No.
Did the MVP award exist in 1965? Yes or No.
Did the ownership of the league remained the same since 1965? Yes or No.
Did the name remained the same since 1965? Yes or No.

Stop dodging the questions. Answer.

You are simply re ed. Unreal.

[ElNono]

So the myth he was only person to win all started with you I guess then?

You still haven't answered the question(s).
And no, I didn't start any myths nor wrote his wikipedia entry.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Now we just need you to see it and we'll be all set.

You are a funny guy. Even your own argument is a lie. It was not named Euroleague in 1988 dumb ass but now you claim it started in 1988 after you already claim it could never exist if it was not called Euroleague.

ING IDIOT you cannot even get your own lies right.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

You still haven't answered the question(s).
And no, I didn't start any myths nor wrote his wikipedia entry.

Oh i see it came from a lie on wikipedia that someone make up and you take it as fact it was true?

Just like on Spanoulis page some ing fool put that he said he was T-Mac in Greece and people believed it when it never even happened.

The wikipedia thing is wrong. Is this really this hard for you to understand?

[ElNono]

You are simply re ed. Unreal.

What are you afraid of? Just answer the damn questions.
I don't give a what you think about me. What we really want to know is if you know what you claim to know.
So, stop beating around the bush and answer the questions.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

The idiot calling ElNono an idiot is actually the real idiot.

What the ? Euroleague MVP final four started in 1988 I PROVE it with link.

I have given several official links from Euroleague official website proving everything I say. El nono is obviously a liar and everyone can see this.

[Rogue]

You are a funny guy. Even your own argument is a lie. It was not named Euroleague in 1988 dumb ass but now you claim it started in 1988 after you already claim it could never exist if it was not called Euroleague.

ING IDIOT you cannot even get your own lies right.

isn't it what you were once en led by Kori?

[ElNono]

You are a funny guy. Even your own argument is a lie. It was not named Euroleague in 1988 dumb ass but now you claim it started in 1988 after you already claim it could never exist if it was not called Euroleague.

ING IDIOT you cannot even get your own lies right.

YOU claimed it started in 1988, not me. Can you get your straight before posting, or is it too much to ask?

BTW, you have a bunch of unanswered questions...

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Well if half of the teams and didn't play next season. Would you still be exited in June if Spurs win it all? I don't know about you, but it's not like the Spurs made the other teams not playing. So in the end you're still a champion.
Same with EuroLeague. I see your point but Kinder Bologna didn't make the other teams not to play. And even if the play what tells you that they'd still didn't win?
What I say you can put an asterisk but when the years pass in the end you won a tle, and nothing else matters cause if you starting thinking in conditionals well then every champion in the history of sports has to be asterisked.
What if Horry 3 pointer with Lakers did fall in that game 5 in 2003?
What if Manu didn't foul Dirk? Never mind, cause Miami won and they don't fill a bit bad thinking "Man, If the spurs had gotten to the finals we would have been screwed" cause they are the 2006 champions. And so on with every single NBA championship..

Once again there was not one champion in 2001 and one MVP. There was TWO champions and TWO MVPs

So it is fact that it is wrong to say it like "the MVP" and such. There was 2 champions and 2 MVPs. Ia m sure that in NBA any time there is 2 league MVPs and champions that there will be asterisk.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

YOU claimed it started in 1988, not me. Can you get your straight before posting, or is it too much to ask?

BTW, you have a bunch of unanswered questions...

Euroleague MVP AWARD started in 1988. Can you read?

[Rogue]

Oh i see it came from a lie on wikipedia that someone make up and you take it as fact it was true?

Just like on Spanoulis page some ing fool put that he said he was T-Mac in Greece and people believed it when it never even happened.

The wikipedia thing is wrong. Is this really this hard for you to understand?

yeah, wikipedia contains tons of bullcrap info. For example, Spanoulis has got a brilliant career which by far is much more glorious than T-Mac's, but Greek people only consider him a T-Mac level player.

Obama was born in Hawaii, I hope this info isn't wrong on wikipedia.

[ElNono]

Oh i see it came from a lie on wikipedia that someone make up and you take it as fact it was true?

Just like on Spanoulis page some ing fool put that he said he was T-Mac in Greece and people believed it when it never even happened.

The wikipedia thing is wrong. Is this really this hard for you to understand?

Why won't you answer the questions? I've dumbed them down so even you can answer. This would have been over for a while now if you simply answered the 4 or 5 simple questions I asked. Instead, you keep on dodging them and insulting me instead.

Next thing we know you're going to claim the Greek league is worth a damn...
Just answer the ing questions and let's put this sucker to rest...

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

2001 MVP =

Manu Ginboli
Ariel McDonald

2001 Champions =
Maccabi
Virtus

Since there are 2 Euroleague champions and 2 MVPs for this and just one for all other years, yes it seems like asterisk to me.

[MmP]

I don't get this asterisk thing and why affects a player's resume.
Too much for, I go to bed probably something better there than in here.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Why won't you answer the questions? I've dumbed them down so even you can answer. This would have been over for a while now if you simply answered the 4 or 5 simple questions I asked. Instead, you keep on dodging them and insulting me instead.

Next thing we know you're going to claim the Greek league is worth a damn...
Just answer the ing questions and let's put this sucker to rest...

You are wrong. It was proven long ago. Why are you still arguing? Is it so horrible that Manu was one of 2 players in history instead of just 1 to do this? It is OK to be 1 of just 2.

[ElNono]

Euroleague MVP AWARD started in 1988. Can you read?

I can read. Can you answer really simple questions?

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

yeah, wikipedia contains tons of bullcrap info. For example, Spanoulis has got a brilliant career which by far is much more glorious than T-Mac's, but Greek people only consider him a T-Mac level player.

Obama was born in Hawaii, I hope this info isn't wrong on wikipedia.

Spanoulis does have a brilliant career. He is by far greatest European player of all time after just 3 years of experience. Not any player after just 3 years of career time can even come close to what he has done in such short time.

[ElNono]

You are wrong. It was proven long ago. Why are you still arguing? Is it so horrible that Manu was one of 2 players in history instead of just 1 to do this? It is OK to be 1 of just 2.

So it wasn't called Euroleague in 1965? Is that what you're trying to tell me?
There was no Final Four in 1965? Is that what I read here?

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

So it wasn't called Euroleague in 1965? Is that what you're trying to tell me?
There was no Final Four in 1965? Is that what I read here?

I am put you in my ignore box.

[ElNono]

LOL... blessing in disguise...

[mystargtr34]

I think Dirk is arguably a top 5 play of his generation.

1. Duncan/Shaq
3. Kobe
4. KG
5. Dirk

Thats probably a pretty fair list IMO. You could argue Paul Pierce, who has the numbers and Finals MVP. Maybe Jason Kidd or Allen Iverson could be in the discussion too - but none of those guys consistantly had their teams at around 60 wins like Dirk did.