Manu is one of the greats, and its hard to judge his career on its full merits since part of his prime was spent out of the NBA - but in the NBA, Dirk > Manu.
Manu did have a stretch of about 2 years there from 2005-2007 where he was probably a top 10 player in the NBA, but even in those years Dirk was arguably the best in the NBA, winning his MVP, and leading his team to the Finals.
Fixed.
I hope you know that if Kobe does win a ring this year then he officially becomes the Player of the decade and that same goes for Duncan and Shaq, whoever wins one more ring this year becomes the player of the decade but as of right now, they are tied..
Shaq was the best player early in the decade 2000-2002
Duncan then took the honor from 2003-2005.
Now Kobe has been the best player this decade from 2006-present.
Uh, they'll be getting a head start on 2010-2019 decade.
Kobe this year was kinda like that fat kid trying to get picked to play football. He barely did make it. Shaq was picked first.
best international player in the NBA:
1. nowitzki
2. Nash
3. Parker
4. ginobili
5. gasol
best international player (FIBA and NBA)
1.Ginobili
2.Sabonis
3. Petrovic
4. Gasol
5. Divac
best international player (FIBA)
1. KBP
2. KBP
3. KBP
4. KBP
5. david rivers !
Last edited by romain.star; 08-07-2009 at 01:50 AM.
With a list of players, choosing to play in the NBA instead of Europe, that includes: Dirk Nowitzki, Manu Ginobili, Hedo Turkoglu, Tony Parker, Jose Calderon, Roko Leni Ukic, Marko Belinelli, Andrea Bargnani, Rasho Nesterovic, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Ersan Ilyasova, Zaza Pachulia, Vladimir Radmanovic, Boris Diaw, DeSagana Diop, Yakhouba Diawara, Mickael Pietrus, Marcin Gortat, Luis Scola, Fabricio Oberto, Marko Jaric, Marc Gasol, Pau Gasol, Peja Stojakovic, Ian Mahinmi, Ronny Turiaf, Linas Kleiza, Darius Songaila, Thabo Sefalosha, Serge Ibaka, Nenad Krstic, Nicolas Batum, Andrei Kirilenko, Mehmet Okur, Kosta Koufos, Andris Biedrins, Sasha Vujacic, Beno Udrih, Goran Dragic, Leandrinho Barbosa, Sasha Pavlovic, Spencer Hawes, Andres Nocioni, Omri Casspi, and Sergio Rodriguez....
it is little wonder that players such as V-Span choose to play in Europe. A shallow pool provides greater opportunity to swim, survive, and be noticed.
With a list of players, choosing to play in the NBA instead of Europe, that includes: Dirk Nowitzki, Manu Ginobili, Hedo Turkoglu, Tony Parker, Jose Calderon, Roko Leni Ukic, Marko Belinelli, Andrea Bargnani, Rasho Nesterovic, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Ersan Ilyasova, Zaza Pachulia, Vladimir Radmanovic, Boris Diaw, DeSagana Diop, Yakhouba Diawara, Mickael Pietrus, Marcin Gortat, Luis Scola, Fabricio Oberto, Marko Jaric, Marc Gasol, Pau Gasol, Peja Stojakovic, Ian Mahinmi, Ronny Turiaf, Linas Kleiza, Darius Songaila, Thabo Sefalosha, Serge Ibaka, Nenad Krstic, Nicolas Batum, Andrei Kirilenko, Mehmet Okur, Kosta Koufos, Andris Biedrins, Sasha Vujacic, Beno Udrih, Goran Dragic, Leandrinho Barbosa, Sasha Pavlovic, Spencer Hawes, Andres Nocioni, Omri Casspi, and Sergio Rodriguez....
it is little wonder that players such as V-Span choose to play in Europe. A shallow pool provides greater opportunity to swim, survive, and be noticed.
You are smoking good stuff to put most of those players in the class of Spanoulis. I mean that is a joke. Some of them I mean you have got to be kidding.
lol spanoulis
Nash over Ginobili and Gasol?
hilarious
you mean RIGHT NOW right? Nash should be #5
if Manu has a great season he easily could be back to #2 by end of the season.
careerwise of the current players in NBA:
1. Dirk
2. Manu
3. Nash
4. Parker
5. Gasol
career wise in NBA ? are you kiddin' ? Nash, Parker and Gasol should be all three ahead of manu. Look at the stats, level, consistence, recognition (MVP, ASG or finals MVP).
If we talk about overall career, at every stage, manu has simply one of the best career of any player ever. Euroleague (MVP), Italy championship, Italy cup (x2), Gold and bronze medals at the Olympics (MVP), Silver medal at the world championship, 3 times NBA champion (1 ASG, 1 NBA 3rd team and 1 6MOY).
right now, in the world, i can't see any current player having a greatest career. and even in the past, it could be hard to find. Having won, being the main man or one of them, in every stage. wow.
but still, as long as we're talking ONLY about NBA career from non us players, manu has several players ahead of him.
sorry I was including international achievements. yes, Manu could even be #1 in that case.
but only NBA career:
1. Dirk
2. Nash
3. Gasol
4. Parker/Manu tossup
Minor League
Minor LeagueItaly championship,
Minor LeagueItaly cup (x2),
FIBAGold and bronze medals at the Olympics (MVP),
FIBASilver medal at the world championship,
Who would those be? Since minor league basketball should not enter into the equation, his Euro hardware makes no impression on me.but still, as long as we're talking ONLY about NBA career from non us players, manu have several players behind him.
Dirk and Nash have had better NBA careers than Manu. Making a Finals as a #1 guy and winning two MVP awards as a #1 guy trumps being a 3-time champion as a #2 guy. If Manu were capable of winning a championship as a #1 guy or took home 3 MVP awards as a #1 guy, then you could argue he's had a better NBA career than Nash or Dirk.
We'll never know 100% certain what Manu would do as a #1 guy with his own team, but he's a Top 30 player. That strikes me as him leading his team to an 8th seed at best.
LOL FIBA? Manu beat a USA team full of NBA allstars regardless of FIBA rules.
I agree, I guess...
Manu had a better career overall than Nash, Tony or any other international player if we are talking about accomplishments.
But strictly in the NBA, Nash and Tony > Manu. Gasol? I donīt know.
Under FIBA rules and with a stacked team besides him. Those national teams practice and play together for years on end, whereas the US has thrown their international comp squads together in a haphazard fashion without much understanding of what it takes to win in FIBA. If the Argentinian National Team was inducted into the NBA as the 31st team, they'd struggle to adapt to NBA rules.
I'm more impressed with Dirk getting Germany to qualify for the Olympics when his supporting cast was a bunch of dudes that couldn't hold the court at a 24 Hour Fitness. Manu couldn't have done that.
yep. if we're talking about current players. add some of the great former international players, and manu could drop 3 or 4 ranks lower IMO.
you make it sounds like the compe ion level is fair. you fail to realize USA players >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> international players in talent. yeah, these days international teams have 1,2,3 decent NBA level players but team USA has 12! not to mention 2 or 3 of the top 5 players in the world
whatever the rules or length of practice. Beating a USA team full of NBA allstars is an amazing achievement.
It's nice to see some Spurs fans can look at things objectively. Aside from the flopping, I like Manu's game and watching him play. I'm not a Manu hater. But he's not better than Dirk. No way, no how.
well, as long as you consider that anything outside the NBA is BS, any discussion is useless.
as for the last quote, sorry, i used "behind" instead of "ahead of". i've corrected it immediately but not soon enough for your quoting obviously. so, on the last point, we agree.
It's a combination of things. Certainly the rest of the world has erased a large part of the gap when the Dream Team assraped everybody in 92. Still, the NBA is the premier men's professional basketball league and has the best talent. That said, the only reason the US won this last time around is because they had Kobe, LBJ and Wade together and Team USA learned their lessons as to what works in FIBA and what doesn't. Manu is a more effective player in FIBA than he is in the NBA.
Of course it is. That doesn't make him a better player than Dirk though.whatever the rules or length of practice. Beating a USA team full of NBA allstars is an amazing achievement.
Why should I consider what he did in minor league basketball? Should I list what Alex Rodriguez did at Double A?
nobody on this thread is saying he is.
I'm pretty sure quite a few people in this thread have.nobody on this thread is saying he is.
no dirk is a better player, but manu has accomplished more in his international career and that is about it. So when we judge the best international player, we pretty much compare resumes, and see Manu has a better international career.
But if the question is NBA then obv its Dirk.
If the question is Dirk as a player, against Manu as a player in general, I would go with Dirk because he has been a franchise player in the toughest league, whereas for manu we would have to guess how he would have adapted had he entered the NBA as a draft pick from college. Fact > Speculation.
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