50 players better than Pippen?

[LnGrrrR]

Pre-injury Grant Hill was better than Pippen at every aspect of the game, including defense. Pippen was highly overrated, and most people cant give you even on highlight of his career after Jordan left the Bulls, and Pippen was in his prime.

Yeah, but is it fair to put "pre-injury' Grant Hill on the list? I mean, usually I take a player and consider his whole career, but this is almost an exception I think. The dropoff was considerable, and it was an injury, not just that he didn't keep himself in shape or anything.

[Goran Dragic]

He's had remarkable coaches and plenty of talent to get the job done. The problem for a long time was a lack of commitment, both individually and as a team, to defense.

What remarkable coaches has he had?

[LnGrrrR]

Not if Dwhistle was on that Miami team.

Speaking of D-whistle... I'm leaning towards putting him on this list, for offensive firepower mostly. And his ability to draw fouls.

[Goran Dragic]

Pre-injury Grant Hill was better than Pippen at every aspect of the game, including defense. Pippen was highly overrated, and most people cant give you even on highlight of his career after Jordan left the Bulls, and Pippen was in his prime.

Pippen wasn't in his prime once MJ retired.

[Greg Oden]

When's the last time Marion was an allstar? you're using that as an example of playing with one?

[Dunc n Dave]

Duncan would've held Wade? That's news.

No, Bowen would have...

[Greg Oden]

What remarkable coaches has he had?

avery johnson was an immaculate coach and he made that baskeeetbawl team play transishun defense.

[Greg Oden]

No, Bowen would have...

You're contradicting yourself, assbag. You said if Duncan was on that Dallas team.

Get your story straight.

[Goran Dragic]

No, Bowen would have...

ass, z0sa said if you replace Duncan with Dirk on the 2006 Mavs, last I checked Bowen wasn't on that team.

[Greg Oden]

Who the does dunc n dave think he is?


Continue eating yogurt out of your boyfriend's ass.

[Dunc n Dave]

When's the last time Marion was an allstar? you're using that as an example of playing with one?

2 seasons ago...

Marion is still a capable double-double guy who isn't far removed from his last All Star game in 2007. His stats drop off in a half court offense, but he is still an All Star quality player, especially in a run-n-gun system like Phoenix and Dallas this season.

[anakha]

No, Bowen would have...

I can't even defend this one.

[Greg Oden]

I can't even defend this one.

You didn't know Bowen played for Dallas in 06?

[Goran Dragic]

2 seasons ago...

Marion is still a capable double-double guy who isn't far removed from his last All Star game in 2007. His stats drop off in a half court offense, but he is still an All Star quality player, especially in a run-n-gun system like Phoenix and Dallas this season.

You obviously didn't watch either Suns Spurs series in 2005 or 2007 the way you're glorifying Marion. Marion is a one dimensional player who's only way to score is fast breaks and pick and rolls.

[anakha]

Let me re-phrase that. Most superstars are playing their best ball between 28-32. After that, they take that gradual plunge towards retirement. Pippen on the other hand was a total scrub when he left the Bulls, and he was not old. Just look at his numbers and you'll see.

IIRC, Pippen could barely even play in the '98 playoffs because of his back problems, and I wouldn't be surprised if that hampered him the rest of his career.

[Goran Dragic]

Let me re-phrase that. Most superstars are playing their best ball between 28-32. After that, they take that gradual plunge towards retirement. Pippen on the other hand was a total scrub when he left the Bulls, and he was not old. Just look at his numbers and you'll see.

Pippen was 33 the season after MJ retired. Also keep in mind his career game total would be relatively high at that point given the long seasons he had his entire career.

[Dunc n Dave]

You're contradicting yourself, assbag. You said if Duncan was on that Dallas team.

Get your story straight.

My bad, getting my posters mixed up. I screwed up. Let me start over.

Duncan would provide MUCH better help defense on Wade's drives than Dirk.

When Wade sees Dirk patrolling the paint, he doesn't even blink. Wade sees Duncan and he thinks twice. Even if he doesn't block it, he alters the shot attempt.

And Haslem and Posey may have been able to slow down Dirk, but they would get abused by Duncan in 2006. Mavs + Duncan win in 5 games.

[dirk4mvp]

My bad, getting my posters mixed up. I screwed up. Let me start over.

Duncan would provide MUCH better help defense on Wade's drives than Dirk.

When Wade sees Dirk patrolling the paint, he doesn't even blink. Wade sees Duncan and he thinks twice. Even if he doesn't block it, he alters the shot attempt.

And Haslem and Posey may have been able to slow down Dirk, but they would get abused by Duncan in 2006. Mavs + Duncan win in 5 games.

You keep thinking that in your fairly land.

[ambchang]

Pre-injury Grant Hill was better than Pippen at every aspect of the game, including defense. Pippen was highly overrated, and most people cant give you even on highlight of his career after Jordan left the Bulls, and Pippen was in his prime.

Pippen was All NBA 1st and All D 1st team in 94 and 95, the two years Jordan went play baseball, finishing #3 in MVP voting in 94, and #7 in 95.

Grant Hill was fantastic pre injury, but he was no Pippen, especially on the defensive end.

[LnGrrrR]

Here's an interesting tool as well.... Hall of Fame predictor: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ob_career.html

[Dunc n Dave]

You obviously didn't watch either Suns Spurs series in 2005 or 2007 the way you're glorifying Marion. Marion is a one dimensional player who's only way to score is fast breaks and pick and rolls.

And what will Dallas have to do to score this year? It ain't gonna be with dominating post play in a half court set...

[Goran Dragic]

And Haslem and Posey may have been able to slow down Dirk, but they would get abused by Duncan in 2006.

You're in stupid to think Haslem and Posey woulda been the ones guarding Duncan.

[Goran Dragic]

And what will Dallas have to do to score this year? It ain't gonna be with dominating post play in a half court set...

What's your point?

[dirk4mvp]

It's obvious dunc n dave stopped watching the playoffs in 06 after Dirk sent his team home.

[Dunc n Dave]

You keep thinking that in your fairly land.

Great response. Lots of info there to back up your opinion...