The Second Banana: Dirk vs. Manu

[weebo]

You lost all credibility when you said you would wanted a known choke artist to get you a win if you needed one tomorrow.

[Nathan Explosion]

You lost all credibility when you said you would wanted a known choke artist to get you a win if you needed one tomorrow.

Umm, who?

[Findog]

You lost all credibility when you said you would wanted a known choke artist to get you a win if you needed one tomorrow.

Dirk's not a choker. You would think a Spurs fan that has watched Dirk rape his team time and time again would get that. Besides, if he is, he's got company:

[ohmwrecker]

Your opinion sucks and is completely false. Duncan and Dirk's games together make them about 10 times as deadly as Duncan and Manu.

My opinion sucks because it's not the same as yours?

I'm not saying Manu is a better player than Nowitzki, I am just saying having two post players that just naturally demand a lot of offensive touches are better served complimented by players who can create, penetrate and pass. Nowitzki has better long range shooting than Duncan, but Duncan is undeniably the superior defensive player. Whatever offensive deficiencies Duncan has, Manu makes up for. That's why I think they compliment each other.

What's so difficult to understand?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Duncan and Nowitzki are both franchise players and both are 7 ft post players with a similar skill set.

...and 31 better than dirk

Nope.

[Findog]

Umm, who?

The guy who can't beat the Spurs or come through in the clutch EVER to save his life




If I wanted to, I could spend lots of time on youtube pulling videos of game-winners and clutch plays from Dirk. It just boggles the mind that Spurs fans would take that tack. It would be like me trashing Chris Paul, Dwyane Wade, Baron Davis, Steve Nash or any of the other guys that have owned Dallas in the playoffs.

[ohmwrecker]

Nope.

Yep. I didn't say exactly the same, I said "similar". Dirk plays the post or the 3 pt line. His mid range game comes from screens and pick and rolls, just like Duncan. There are some subtle differences in shot preferences (Dirk likes that turn around fader, while Duncan either backs down his defender for that hook shot or isolates for that baseline glass shot), but other than the 3 point shot, Duncan and Nowitzki take their shots from the same spots on the floor.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Yep. I didn't say exactly the same, I said "similar". Dirk plays the post or the 3 pt line. His mid range game comes from screens and pick and rolls, just like Duncan. There are some subtle differences in shot preferences (Dirk likes that turn around fader, while Duncan either backs down his defender for that hook shot or isolates for that baseline glass shot), but other than the 3 point shot, Duncan and Nowitzki take their shots from the same spots on the floor.

Except that Duncan plays more close to the rim than he does the midrange, while Dirk plays more midrange and 3PT than close to the rim. Dirk is like a shooting guard in a power forward's body. They would play incredibly well with each other.

[Findog]

Yep. I didn't say exactly the same, I said "similar". Dirk plays the post or the 3 pt line. His mid range game comes from screens and pick and rolls, just like Duncan. There are some subtle differences in shot preferences (Dirk likes that turn around fader, while Duncan either backs down his defender for that hook shot or isolates for that baseline glass shot), but other than the 3 point shot, Duncan and Nowitzki take their shots from the same spots on the floor.

Who would you rather have, a Twin Towers of Hakeem and David Robinson, with some scrub to play shooting guard, or David Robinson, some spare at PF and Dale Ellis at SG?

[dirk4mvp]

What's funny is spur fans who are usually quick to say Dirk's lacking in his inside game are now all of a sudden saying he wouldn't fit with Duncan because there would be too much clogging in the paint

Reaching much?

[dirk4mvp]

Duncan and Nowitzki are both franchise players and both are 7 ft post players with a similar skill set,

Since when?

[benefactor]

My opinion sucks because it's not the same as yours?

No...it sucks because you are being dishonest.

I'm not saying Manu is a better player than Nowitzki, I am just saying having two post players that just naturally demand a lot of offensive touches are better served complimented by players who can create, penetrate and pass.

That would be all well and good if Dirk were a post player. Dirk is a perimeter player. We have a guy that is one of the best penetrating guards in the league, so there is your creator. Nathan Explosion wrote an excellent post on it....go back a few responses and read it.

Nowitzki has better long range shooting than Duncan, but Duncan is undeniably the superior defensive player. Whatever offensive deficiencies Duncan has, Manu makes up for. That's why I think they compliment each other.

Again...you are just saying stuff to say stuff and aren't making any real point that suggests Manu is a better fit than Dirk next to Duncan. Sure Manu and Duncan compliment each other...but Dirk and Duncan compliment each other better and this is not really refutable without being a homer.

What's so difficult to understand?

You are.

[benefactor]

What's funny is spur fans who are usually quick to say Dirk's lacking in his inside game are now all of a sudden saying he wouldn't fit with Duncan because there would be too much clogging in the paint

Reaching much?

I think that the combination of Mavs hate and Manu love has them blinded. It's really sad because they just wind up looking ignorant.

[Findog]

I think that the combination of Mavs hate and Manu love has them blinded. It's really sad because they just wind up looking ignorant.

Dirk's a classy guy, is team-oriented, has no ego and plays the game the right way. In other words, he's very Spur-like. I think it's proxy hate for Mark Cuban.

[dirk4mvp]

I think that the combination of Mavs hate and Manu love has them blinded. It's really sad because they just wind up looking ignorant.

I knew there was that 'church of manu' thing people here like to call themselves members of, but I didn't think they'd go to and back trying to defend an argument that just isn't true.

[Kermit]

Dirk's a classy guy, is team-oriented, has no ego and plays the game the right way. In other words, he's very Spur-like. I think it's proxy hate for Mark Cuban.

I believe the only "bad" thing you can say about Dirk is that he has horrible taste in women.

[resistanze]

LMAO @ people thinking a Manu-led team could make it to the finals. Not even when the East was weak.

[ohmwrecker]

No...it sucks because you are being dishonest.

That would be all well and good if Dirk were a post player. Dirk is a perimeter player. We have a guy that is one of the best penetrating guards in the league, so there is your creator. Nathan Explosion wrote an excellent post on it....go back a few responses and read it.

Again...you are just saying stuff to say stuff and aren't making any real point that suggests Manu is a better fit than Dirk next to Duncan. Sure Manu and Duncan compliment each other...but Dirk and Duncan compliment each other better and this is not really refutable without being a homer.

You are.

I think you are reading a little too much into what I am saying. I'm not being dishonest. I am being completely honest. You can say Nowitzki is a better compliment to Duncan (and he may be), but you don't know. No one knows because they don't play together. It's all just conjecture and opinion. None more or less valid than the next.

I'm actually giving Nowitzki more credit than you by saying he has a post game instead of just saying he is only a perimeter player. Tony Parker isn't part of the equation in this dopey little fantasy scenario you guys are geeking over. Remember the original question?

I don't know what you mean by "saying stuff just to say stuff". What are you, thirteen? You are argumentative just to be argumentative. You are extremely immature and you are just trying to pick a fight.

[bigfan]

As much as I like Manu and appreciate his efforts, Id take Dirk over Manu.

[Sdayi135]

Dirk's not a choker. You would think a Spurs fan that has watched Dirk rape his team time and time again would get that. Besides, if he is, he's got company:

Explain his performance in the 2006 Finals after game 2.

Explain his shooting performance in the three losses at GS in '07

Explain his performance in 2008 vs. NO when he got slapped around (in many ways) by an average Xavier character called "David West"

[Sdayi135]

He's a fringe All Star. Dirk is a franchise player.

And this franchise player won you how many chanionships?

[dirk4mvp]

Explain his performance in 2008 vs. NO when he got slapped around (in many ways) by an average Xavier character called "David West"

You might want to check that again. Dude averaged 27/12/4 that series.

[Findog]

Explain his performance in the 2006 Finals after game 2.

29 points and 15 rebounds in the penultimate Game 6. A tough clutch runner over Shaq at the end of Game 5 before Wade got bailed out by Salvatore.

Explain his shooting performance in the three losses at GS in '07

Well, if Spurs fans get to complain about Timmy not being 100% and hobbled when the Spurs go fishing, why are Dallas fans not allowed to reference the fact that Dirk was hurt and still put up 19/10 a game against the Warriors?

Explain his performance in 2008 vs. NO when he got slapped around (in many ways) by an average Xavier character called "David West"

Explain his performance? You mean when he got tapped on the cheek and decided not to retaliate and risk a suspension? And that same David West that was "guarding" Dirk when he "held" him to 27/14/4 on 47% shooting? Yeah, you're right, Dirk got slapped around "in many ways" alright by David West. Bottom line is that the 08 Hornets were much better than the 08 Mavs. Just like Timmy is a better player than Dirk, but the 09 Mavs were much better than the 09 Spurs. You're saying 27/14/4 on 47% shooting is something that has to be "explained" and made excuses for? Your arguments are and you're a ing idiot.

[Findog]

And this franchise player won you how many chanionships?

One Finals Appearance. That's 1 more Finals Appearance as a #1 guy than Manu has. LeBron James, Dwight Howard and Chris Paul don't have rings, so I guess they're not franchise players either.

[benefactor]

I think you are reading a little too much into what I am saying. I'm not being dishonest. I am being completely honest. You can say Nowitzki is a better compliment to Duncan (and he may be), but you don't know. No one knows because they don't play together. It's all just conjecture and opinion. None more or less valid than the next.

There is this thing call an educated guess. Basketball front offices use them all the time when building a team. You choose to got back to the "no one knows because they don't play together" argument because you have no facts to stand on that support Manu being a better compliment to Duncan than Dirk would be. If you were a GM building a championship team and you had Dirk and Manu to choose from to place around Duncan you would be foolish not to pick Dirk. If you think this is wrong then please supply something with a little more meat to support your position.

I'm actually giving Nowitzki more credit than you by saying he has a post game instead of just saying he is only a perimeter player. Tony Parker isn't part of the equation in this dopey little fantasy scenario you guys are geeking over. Remember the original question?

Ok...but his game is mostly perimeter based and he is most effective from there, so it is a pretty far reach to suggest that Dirk would somehow hinder what Duncan does in the post.

I don't know what you mean by "saying stuff just to say stuff". What are you, thirteen? You are argumentative just to be argumentative. You are extremely immature and you are just trying to pick a fight.

You said this:

Nowitzki has better long range shooting than Duncan, but Duncan is undeniably the superior defensive player. Whatever offensive deficiencies Duncan has, Manu makes up for. That's why I think they compliment each other.

What the do those two statements have to do with each other? Your statements make no sense in regards to the topic at hand. You said nothing in support of Manu over Dirk and you made no argument that suggests Dirk would be a bad fit with Duncan. If anything all you did was compare Dirk to Duncan and Manu to Duncan...which has nothing to do with this thread. Again, you are just saying stuff and none of it has anything to do with anything.