The GOP's Misplaced Rage by Bruce Bartlett

[ElNono]

And I have said he had bad advice in the past. Still, such spending bills originate in congress. Period. It's in the cons ution. Regardless who wanted the bailout, it's on them for starting the process. If President Bush had vetoes it, they would have submitted one to President Obmaba.

But he did veto other laws that effectively went to Obama and Obama enacted immediately. Like the Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008.
So that's definitely no excuse.

[Wild Cobra]

But he did veto other laws that effectively went to Obama and Obama enacted immediately. Like the Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008.
So that's definitely no excuse.

Wrong. The propaganda out there was the bailout was time sensitive.

[Wild Cobra]

It's unfortunate and I agree. The best conservatives could do is actually get themselves organized into a serious party again, that plays the actual role of constructive opposition.

That's the problem. Conservatives are a 3rd party. Between the two, they support republicans as the lesser of two evils. Conservatives are a large part of the voting block for republicans, so republicans lose when they ignore conservative principles.

I still haven't seen an actual counter-proposal for healthcare reform from the GOP. You know, it could be 100% contrary to what's being proposed, and it might be dismissed by the democrats, but at least it would allow conservatives to align to something and actually provide something constructive. Right now, besides the bickering and moaning, there's really nothing constructive coming out of them.

Why does their have to be a counter proposal? The problem is current regulations and laws, not the current health care system.

[clambake]

can't you admit that bush went full throttle bailout?

why does it hurt you so bad to admit to that?

[Findog]

Somebody needs to inform him that republicans have been completely voted out of power in washington. I think they've been held to the same standard.

Read that passage again.

[Wild Cobra]

can't you admit that bush went full throttle bailout?

why does it hurt you so bad to admit to that?

Me? I can admit that. I think he made a serious mistake. I said it then. Must I repeat myself? I even helped vote republican senator Smith out of the senate for his yes vote on the package and voted for my democrat representative in 2008 because he voted against the bailout.

[clambake]

Me? I can admit that. I think he made a serious mistake. I said it then. Must I repeat myself? I even helped vote republican senator Smith out of the senate for his yes vote on the package and voted for my democrat representative in 2008 because he voted against the bailout.

bush had to do it. you understand that, right?

[Wild Cobra]

bush had to do it. you understand that, right?

No he didn't, but like I said, he was dammed either way.

[ElNono]

Wrong. The propaganda out there was the bailout was time sensitive.

Bush was the number one instigator of rushing for a vote. Here's an article from that time: LINK

Maybe it will refresh your memory of who was pushing for what.

[Wild Cobra]

Bush was the number one instigator of rushing for a vote. Here's an article from that time: LINK

Maybe it will refresh your memory of who was pushing for what.

I don't care if he was or not. It was wrong, and I have disagree with him on that and other issues. Why do you believe I support everything he did? Please accept the fact that congress had to originate the thing for him to sign it.

[ElNono]

Why does their have to be a counter proposal? The problem is current regulations and laws, not the current health care system.

The current health care system will be bankrupt within the next 10 years. So there's most absolutely and definitely a problem with the current system. I don't even think Republicans deny that, because the numbers are all out there for everyone to see.
So since it's completely unavoidable not to reform it somehow, I'd like to see what the fiscally conservative and free market plan is to fix it. Unfortunately, they rather spend their time pandering and sitting in their asses instead of coming up with an actual proposition.

[Wild Cobra]

The current health care system will be bankrupt within the next 10 years.

Only without real tort reform if litigation successfully destroy it.

So there's most absolutely and definitely a problem with the current system. I don't even think Republicans deny that, because the numbers are all out there for everyone to see.

Everything they propose gets shot down, and is like a third rail. Serious tort reform is the necessary first step. Getting illegal aliens to self deprt so they aren't a burdern on our medical system is necessary too.

So since it's completely unavoidable not to reform it somehow, I'd like to see what the fiscally conservative and free market plan is to fix it. Unfortunately, they rather spend their time pandering and sitting in their asses instead of coming up with an actual proposition.

It had been explained several times in the several past years.

[ElNono]

I don't care if he was or not. It was wrong, and I have disagree with him on that and other issues. Why do you believe I support everything he did?

I didn't claim that you did. I actually remember you being opposed to it. That's exactly why I don't understand why you take the Bush apologist position when it comes to this.

Please accept the fact that congress had to originate the thing for him to sign it.

Actually, the original 3 page draft created by Paulson was sent from the White House to lawmakers overnight on Sept 19.
Here's the original text:

LINK

So the originator in the case was the executive asking lawmakers to create a bill as close to that draft as possible.

[ElNono]

Only without real tort reform if litigation successfully destroy it.

Tort reform involves, well, reform. Where's the tort reform bill and why aren't we hearing about it from our republican fellows at the town hall meetings?

Everything they propose gets shot down, and is like a third rail. Serious tort reform is the necessary first step. Getting illegal aliens to self deprt so they aren't a burdern on our medical system is necessary too.

Can you point me to anything they actually have proposed? You know, like an actual bill they've introduced? Talk is cheap. We pay their salaries for action, not merely talking. Plus if they had something to show, at least when it gets shot down they can claim they actually proposed something and tried to be constructive. Right now, it's all criticism and nothing else.

It had been explained several times in the several past years.

Explained is not enough. , they even had full control of congress and the executive not 4 years ago, and only managed to pass Medicare Part D? Not even a single proposal to overhaul this system that's going under?

[Wild Cobra]

I didn't claim that you did. I actually remember you being opposed to it. That's exactly why I don't understand why you take the Bush apologist position when it comes to this.

Is making a statement acknowledging understanding an apology?

Wow... Twisted you are...

[Wild Cobra]

Tort reform involves, well, reform. Where's the tort reform bill and why aren't we hearing about it from our republican fellows at the town hall meetings?

I don't know what they're saying. Do you? In the past, every time it was talked about, they were shot down by propaganda and fear. The democrat pundits must protect their favored trial lawyers.

Can you point me to anything they actually have proposed? You know, like an actual bill they've introduced?

If I spent enough time, I'm sure I could. I remember past attempts took place. It would take too long to find the specifics.

[ElNono]

I don't know what they're saying. Do you? In the past, every time it was talked about, they were shot down by propaganda and fear. The democrat pundits must protect their favored trial lawyers.
If I spent enough time, I'm sure I could. I remember past attempts took place. It would take too long to find the specifics.

Well, now would be a good time. You know, so you can show all those democrat pundits how real americans fix problems with real american solutions. However, all I hear is crickets chirping...

[Wild Cobra]

Well, now would be a good time. You know, so you can show all those democrat pundits how real americans fix problems with real american solutions. However, all I hear is crickets chirping...

Except there are maybe only a half dozen democrats that would support them and too many republicans that won't. It's been tried. Until we unelect the politics that let special interests grease their palms, there never will be a solution that truly benefits us, from either party.

Anyone who thinks government is the answer is pretty damn ignorant.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The crux of the matter for me is that I too doubt that all that many people calling themselves "conservatives" are up in arms about Obama's spending out of some principled kind of fiscal conservatism, as opposed simply to his being a Democrat and the Republicans' being out of power.

I am a fiscal conservative. Bush was a up, and was anything but conservative. Obama has been far far worse in his short time in power.

Thanks for attempting to speak on my behalf though.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The current health care system will be bankrupt within the next 10 years. So there's most absolutely and definitely a problem with the current system. I don't even think Republicans deny that, because the numbers are all out there for everyone to see.
So since it's completely unavoidable not to reform it somehow, I'd like to see what the fiscally conservative and free market plan is to fix it. Unfortunately, they rather spend their time pandering and sitting in their asses instead of coming up with an actual proposition.

They've come up with several proposals, but none have seen the light of day with the media in the tank for the Messiah.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

They've come up with several proposals, but none have seen the light of day with the media in the tank for the Messiah.

Then how exactly is it you know about them? Just asking

[ElNono]

They've come up with several proposals, but none have seen the light of day with the media in the tank for the Messiah.

They don't need the media. They just need to put it on a piece of paper and present it as the official GOP bill. So guys like InsHannity can start singing that tune.

Hasn't happened, and I'm not holding my breath...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Then how exactly is it you know about them? Just asking

Because I don't rely on the MSM for my news.

Shocking concept... you can go out to places that report bills and amendments online and read them. There is also local coverage over some of what the reps have proposed from their hometown district if you look for it.

Don't have time right now but will try to run some of it down this weekend.

[LnGrrrR]

And I have said he had bad advice in the past. Still, such spending bills originate in congress. Period. It's in the cons ution. Regardless who wanted the bailout, it's on them for starting the process. If President Bush had vetoes it, they would have submitted one to President Obmaba.

You're aware that Bush supported it, and that McCain did as well, right? So even if Obama wasn't elected, that bill was going to pass.

[LnGrrrR]

It's unfortunate and I agree. The best conservatives could do is actually get themselves organized into a serious party again, that plays the actual role of constructive opposition. I still haven't seen an actual counter-proposal for healthcare reform from the GOP. You know, it could be 100% contrary to what's being proposed, and it might be dismissed by the democrats, but at least it would allow conservatives to align to something and actually provide something constructive. Right now, besides the bickering and moaning, there's really nothing constructive coming out of them.

You and I both know that, if they were to actually put out a plan, it could be criticized. Far easier to throw stones at this one, and keep the base misdirected, than to put out a policy and have it being torn apart too.