I got a new ride. 2009 Toyota Matrix XRS.

[DarkReign]

you know DR....it would have helped if the big 3 had offered something other than a platter.

i hear you, but i wonder if they can ever reclaim any consumer confidence. they had the world 50 years ago.

50 years ago, the President was shot, Cuba was housing Russia's nuclear weapons, our country was 6 years away from being the closest to revolution it has ever been and man hadnt yet landed on the moon.

The world changed, so did the American people. I honestly dont buy the consumer confidence line. Its $$$, plain and simple. Its image, plain and simple.

Its socially acceptable now in 2009 to drive foreign cars, when 50 years ago it wasnt. Its cool and trendy now to drive a Lexus now, when only the rich drove a foreign car 50 years ago.

Blame gloablization, blame the Big 3 and their absolute cars they produced in the late 70s and 80s (those same decades that ATRAIN, myself and Heath have no recollection of), blame anything you want...

But dont blame the American Idiot. Dot blame states that 90-100% subsidize foreign corporations, dont blame foreign countries who tariff and tax our exports when we do not do the same to them. Dont blame the legislature that allows this practice to continue or the people pretending that it doesnt matter only because the effects of an eroding manufacturing base takes decades to feel. Thats just the free market at work.

I am sure the Romans saw nothing wrong with a slave population that outnumbered Romans. I am sure the Romans saw nothing wrong with an increasingly easy lifestyle sustained by past conquests and the subjugation/vassalage of foreign peoples. I am also quite certain, when the end came, nearly all of the Romans didnt know how it happened or what could have prevented it.

Ignorance is truly bliss.

[DarkReign]

LOL gawd damn man!! Well either way my last 3 cars were chevy and I decided to go with Toyota and im happy with my purchase but thanks for the lesson .

Its funny and humorous for you because it doesnt affect you or your state. But it will.

Why doesnt the rest of the country just start, I dont know...

Closing Texas military bases left and right so we can buy our military strength from foreign nationals, right?

Same thing, difference is, car companies arent a federal en y. But whoa whoa whoa...they received bailout money!!

So did the banks, so did your (and my) state. We're all living in fantasyland one way or the other.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

[clambake]

blame the Big 3 and their absolute cars they produced in the late 70s and 80s

this.

[ATRAIN]

Its funny and humorous for you because it doesnt affect you or your state. But it will.

Why doesnt the rest of the country just start, I dont know...

Closing Texas military bases left and right so we can buy our military strength from foreign nationals, right?

Same thing, difference is, car companies arent a federal en y. But whoa whoa whoa...they received bailout money!!

So did the banks, so did your (and my) state. We're all living in fantasyland one way or the other.

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

I hate to tell you this but im prob never buying American made again so thanks for playing

[DarkReign]

this.

Sooo, that explains under 30 year old ATRAIN buying foreign?

[DarkReign]

I hate to tell you this but im prob never buying American made again so thanks for playing

Then move, thanks for staying!

[DarkReign]

Whats next, a "kthxbai", too?

Or no, no, no...I got it.

"lol big3"

That'd be original.

[clambake]

Sooo, that explains under 30 year old ATRAIN buying foreign?

maybe atrain never experienced the earlier quality of these products.

my first day here after moving to the states, i bought a 65 GTO.

shoulda kept that car.

[ATRAIN]

Then move, thanks for staying!

NO thanks but thanks for being concerned. Dont blame me for the problems of the big 3. Blame them, they ed themselves.

[DarkReign]

maybe atrain never experienced the earlier quality of these products.

my first day here after moving to the states, i bought a 65 GTO.

shoulda kept that car.

My point is, the majority of people buying cars now have no concept of the poor quality of American cars in the 70s and 80s.

Thats me included. I am 30 years old. Statistically, I am 8 years from my maximum earning potential, then its all downhill.

The 20-40 age group is buying cars in this country and they buy foreign over domestic by quite a margin.

So, my question is, why? What about foreign vehicles is more appealing than domestics? Because "poorly engineered" applies strictly to that era of automotive design and lets be honest, unless youre 50, you dont know about it (not you, CB).

I honestly cant explain it. Price isnt the difference. Performance might be because Toyota and nearly every other foreign car manufacturer have dedicated racing/performance companies (TRD), while domestics usually go 3rd party (Tenneco/SLP/Salene).

The look? I can buy that, I guess. Cant speak for people's taste, thats for sure.

What I dont understand is the open hostility to American cars younger people seem to have. They dont even have a good reason, just regurgitate old thats been said for years that isnt even true anymore.

Is it because modern image of a well-to-do, successful young person glorify everything foreign? Rap music for damn sure, BMW and Mercedes associated with success and sophistication of the popular celebrity.

Thats what I dont understand. Older people I get, they lived and probably bought a K-Car era vehicle and will never drop the grudge. 30-somethings?

You dont have an excuse to hold such a grudge. None. You can say you dont like them, werent for you, cost too much, whatever. But to say, like ATRAIN, "I'll never buy American!" and be proud of such a statement?! That is a socially and culturally acceptable statement? To "hate" American made goods and be proud of it? For no good reason?

ing bizzaro country, I tell ya. Did you know Canadians have more loyalty as a buying populace to the Big3 than Americans?

ing weird. As in, this-isnt-going-to-last-much-longer-at-the-rate-we're-going weird.

[clambake]

kids absorb their parents ing like a sponge. i'd guess all the hate was handed down, or grandfathered in, if you prefer.

[DarkReign]

kids absorb their parents ing like a sponge. i'd guess all the hate was handed down, or grandfathered in, if you prefer.

Hmm, maybe. Might explain my loyalty in its own way, I guess.

Still, you drive a foreign car, you dont park in my driveway. Thats the rule my dad had, thats the rule among my friends. Dont like it? Dont come over, I really dont give a either way.

[clambake]

Hmm, maybe. Might explain my loyalty in its own way, I guess.

Still, you drive a foreign car, you dont park in my driveway. Thats the rule my dad had, thats the rule among my friends. Dont like it? Dont come over, I really dont give a either way.

that is serious loyalty.

could have used you in belfast.

[benefactor]

My car is American, but it has a Toyota motor in it...but that wasn't why I bought it. I bought it because my car is a 2009 GT model, a used rental with only 13k, a Consumer Reports Best Buy and I got it for almost 4K below blue book.

Win.

[Heath Ledger]

Dark Reign there is happiness outside of Michigan you seem very bitter like many o my friends, family, and people in general. I had to get away from all of that misery and pessimism and depression 12 yrs ago and have been much happier ever since.

Michigan is a great place to visit but ty place to live these days

[DarkReign]

I honestly wouldnt know any other way to be.

[Supreme_Being]

I'll get an American car when they finally know how to make one (ie. get round corners).

[Fillmoe]

fam how gay is u?

[SonOfAGun]

I used to be diehard GM, but now....not so much.

My truck is 4k away from 100k miles and has had 0 problems though.

[DarkReign]

My dad worked at GM for 30 years, and I am a Ford man myself.

[phxspurfan]

I interned @ GM and can tell you their quality is way better than it used to be. They have sent most of their factory managers (ops) people to Japan to learn Kaizen and all the efficiency stuff that the Toyota people learned from Ford. Problem is the brand. It's tarnished beyond repair and they just need to scrap the brand and give it another go.


Also getting rid of the stupid 1 mill right for the whole 10,000 acre plant who sits on his ass and hides in teh basement while you wait for him to screw in a bolt UAW needs to get the boot as well.

[benefactor]

I interned @ GM and can tell you their quality is way better than it used to be. They have sent most of their factory managers (ops) people to Japan to learn Kaizen and all the efficiency stuff that the Toyota people learned from Ford. Problem is the brand. It's tarnished beyond repair and they just need to scrap the brand and give it another go.


Also getting rid of the stupid 1 mill right for the whole 10,000 acre plant who sits on his ass and hides in teh basement while you wait for him to screw in a bolt UAW needs to get the boot as well.

It's good that GM and Toyota are working together. I had no idea that the Matrix/Vibe was a joint venture until I started doing some research. I can remember having friends in high school that had Pontiacs and they all said they were pieces of crap. I never would have bought one if I hadn't educated myself a little bit.

[angelbelow]

Nice

[Das Texan]

GM and Dodge are ing morons.


I wish they had been allowed to go bankrupt for their total stupidty.


At least Ford woke up a few years ago and were able to avoid utter collapse essentially.


I cry no tear for GM. I cry even less tears for Dodge.


Idiot companies that deserve all they get and then some.

[mookie2001]

american and foreign auto makers have been working together for years

mazda navajo or b2600, the eagle talon, dodge stealth









the matrix is a nice car but in general small SUVs, carSuvs, vancars, suvsedans are stupid

theyre all going to look like jokes of a car in a few years