Reply With Quote
That's some assness right there. The dude is guessing using stockton as an example. Don't hate on one of the few great white players this league has ever had, and try to taint his name by guessing!!
In January 1997, the Lakers' Nick Van Exel handed out 23 assists in a 95-82 victory over Vancouver, a feat less attributable to his sharpshooting teammates than to the numbers-fudging Lakers fan working the Grizzlies' scorer's table.
Last month, someone on the APBRmetrics forum — an APBRmetrician, for the uninitiated, is a sabermetrician in a Wes Unseld throwback jersey — posted a friend's account of life as an NBA scorekeeper, mostly as an illustration of all the bias and sanctioned bull afflicting even the most straightforward basketball statistics. It's fascinating. This fellow says he was formerly the Grizzlies' head "stats ac ulation guy," and, to hear him tell it, the teams and the league see their official statisticians almost as an arm of their marketing departments. Plump up some numbers, and SportsCenter might just bring itself to show a Grizzlies highlight.
At one point, the guy reviewed his colleagues around the league. He found that the typical NBA stat crew averaged about 20 unintentional errors per game — "missing events, wrong players getting credit unintentionally."
Anyway...on top of that ~20 errors per game, you have over double that in intentional errors. By intentional errors, I mean events that never happened (eg. loose ball rebound is deflected out of bounds by visiting team, instead of correct call - team rebound home team - you award the rebound to a home player in the viscinity...or fake blocks - among the easiest things to make up, next to steals and assists)...or events that are awarded to the wrong player (rebounds, steals, turnovers are the most common). The intentional errors are organizationally sanctioned/encouraged - they increase national media coverage/interest and increase your franchise's and player's visibility. There is also league pressure to protect/enhance the stats of the elite players. For example, I would guess that Stockton got between 1 and 2 assists per game for free.Which is how, one night in Vancouver, Nick Van Exel nearly tied Magic Johnson's team record for assists in a game.
Partly because I disagreed with the blatant stat manipulation (that I did) and partly because I'm a Laker fan, I gave Nick Van Exel like 23 assists one game. If he was vaguely close to a guy making a shot, I found a way to give him an assist. Afterwards, I fully expected someone to talk to me about it. Indeed they did. A senior management guy - "great job Alex, that'll get this game on Sportscenter tomorrow morning!" We (VAN) lost badly, of course.This went both ways. The anonymous scorekeeper reports that he once penalized Dikembe Mutombo simply because he didn't like him. Man does not block in the house of the vindictive scorekeeper.
I also got ed out by an Atlanta management guy because he felt I hadn't hooked Mutombo up enough w/ blocks in a particular first half. (I hadn't - I didn't like him because he was partly responsible for beating the Sonics and because I thought he was a bit of a punk so I made sure he didn't get a singly block that I wasn't sure he'd gotten - which was one in that half.) I told the management guy that the box score reflected the game and if Mutombo wanted more blocks, he needed to earn them. About 5 minutes later, Deke walked out for pregame warmups, asked the official scorer (the person who enters fouls and points in the archaic official scorebook) who does stats, she kindly pointed him to me, and he proceeded to glare at me for about a minute (which is, imo, a really long time for a gigantic man to glare at you). I want to say he blocked three 2nd-half shots and after each one, he made a point of, um, ensuring that I'd gotten them.Now, if any of this is true and as widespread as the guy suggests, it's obviously a problem for a league working assiduously to convince fans it's not some rigged carny game. Otherwise, everything gets called into question. Did Scott Skiles really hand out 30 assists? Did Elmore Smith really block 17 shots in a game? Did Don MacLean really have an NBA career, or was he just some scorekeeper's generous fudge?
Scorekeeper story [APBRmetrics Forum]
That's some assness right there. The dude is guessing using stockton as an example. Don't hate on one of the few great white players this league has ever had, and try to taint his name by guessing!!
Nothing like home cooking.
Reminds me of some fake assists I've seen Chris Paul get.....
Gee, all this time, I though scorekeeping was foolproof
Damn
Ok then. Lets say Stockton got 2 free assists a game. That's a total of 3,008 free assists during his career. He's still the all-time leader in assists by almost 2,500.
FAIL!!
I'd like the league to compare home vs. away stats for players like CP3, and when they discover the GROSS inconsistency, have neutral league stat crews review the game films and use the rulebook to correct to box scores. If they did that for a season or two, this would stop.
I hate to indict Stockton of a Sunday evening, but, that bas was one of the most selfish players I've ever seen. I watched that SOB time & again pass up point blank layups, or, wide open jump shots (from very reasonable lengths) in order to coax an assist to goose his total. It was so awful & blatant and I'm quite confident a major factor in your inability to get off the O snide.
Gee, a Spurs Fan with a cogent post.
It's like a miracle.
If this is true it's pretty ridiculous. There's nothing worse than what basically amounts to observer's trying to influence the game. It's not as bad as the refs forcing themselves to be apart of the game after all these are only stats.
Link?
Oh, I'm mistaken, I thought you were going to back up your statement.
It's re ed of you to say the officiating work doesn't have an equal impact on the games as the observers do. You shouldn't so negligible to the ugly, actually nothing is perfect in the world. The 06 finals and 07 first round were both rigged badly, which is the truth that you can't pretend not existing simply by ignoring them. Similarly your butt looks nice but you can never deny there exists a hole in the middle of the precipice.
Lol that's like a huge compliment to Stockton.
How did you get that from what I said? I said the exact opposite of what you took from my post. Jesus Christ man. I can see your case for 06 but 07? Lol, you simply got outplayed and embarrassed.
Yeah let's not get carried away. Stats mostly just effect fans and players' egos, no sense in comparing it to bad officiating.
Teams themselves don't necessarily rely on the official stats either, and are smart enough to account for half-court desperation shots from in fg% and such. And of course there's the stat systems that don't even use the box score to measure a player's contributions...
It's one thing for a fan to care about inflated or short-changed stats, because fans care about inconsequential things all the time. Mutumbo has more important things to worry about the guy getting sweat-mop-boy level money and a front-row seat to promote his team by cooking the books a bit. What's he need a box score for he was there. About 5 minutes later, Deke walked out for pregame warmups, asked the official scorer (the person who enters fouls and points in the archaic official scorebook) who does stats, she kindly pointed him to me, and he proceeded to glare at me for about a minute
I second that!
Do they accept bets on how many assists a player will dish out a game?
Still waiting for proof..........
You should have known that it was inevitable that Spurs/Mavs fans would claim that Paul benefited from fake assists, as if the only point guard in the NBA who gets assists wrongly credited to him is Chris Paul.Still waiting for proof..........
In the Scott Skiles 30-assist game, he probably only really had like 22, but the scorekeeper got caught up in the excitement. That probably is why league officials don't make a big deal about that record -- they know it isn't legit.
It certainly wasn't intended as such.
4 of 5 are legitimate assists. The 2nd one was the only one that wasn't. Here's the definition of an assist:
The player receiving the pass must score a basket before dribbling the ball three times before an assist will be scored.
Two of them contained a pass by paul followed by one dribble and a basket
Two of them contained a pass by paul followed by two dribbles and a basket.
The 2nd one shouldn't have been awarded seeing as there was a pass by paul followed by four dribbles and a basket.
I'm guessing you think Paul is the only one who benefits from the scorer's mistakes.
The official definition of an assist say nothing about the amount of steps that can be taken.
The player receiving the pass must score a basket before dribbling the ball three times before an assist will be scored.
Two of them contained a pass by paul followed by one dribble and a basket
Two of them contained a pass by paul followed by two dribbles and a basket.
The 2nd one shouldn't have been awarded seeing as there was a pass by paul followed by four dribbles and a basket.
I'm guessing you think Paul is the only one who benefits from the scorer's mistakes.
Thanks BananaHammock for the analysis. Saved me some time indeed
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
