Federal Govt set to Attack their compe ion...Insurance Companies

[antimvp]

I don't care about medicare, medicaid. koolaid whatever the

I want a public option

[antimvp]

here, here, ......i believe there are people who lead a life of service.....i just don't think any of them work for the goverment.

d.i.d.

[Yonivore]

I don't care about medicare, medicaid. koolaid whatever the

I want a public option

Yep, a 1st grader. Now, you're throwing a temper tantrum in the cereal aisle because you want Count Chocula instead of Life.

[Yonivore]

Rich Lowry writes:

The Obama team is saddled with a foundering health-care strategy. But it has a fallback plan — relying on the sheer dimwitted gullibility of the American public. How stupid do they think we are?

Stupid enough to think that a new $1 trillion health-care en lement is just the thing to restore the country to fiscal health.

Stupid enough not to know that almost every en lement known to man has cost more than originally estimated, with a congressional committee in 1967 underestimating by a factor of ten Medicare’s cost by 1990.

Stupid enough not to realize that it is through budget trickery — the taxes begin immediately, the spending is put off for a few years — that the program in the House shows “only” a $239 billion deficit over the first ten years.

Stupid enough not to focus on how the gap between the House plan’s revenue and spending steadily grows after the first ten years, making it a long-term budget buster.

Stupid enough to think increased preventive care will save the government money, just because Pres. Barack Obama constantly repeats it, despite all the independent studies to the contrary.

Stupid enough to believe that a program with no cost controls that can be discerned by the Congressional Budget Office will control costs.

Stupid enough not to worry that Obama’s proposed superteam of technocrats operating outside normal political controls — the so-called Independent Medicare Advisory Council — will resort to rationing when costs continue to spiral upward.

More here.

[boutons_deux]

"there are people who lead a life of service"

From what I read, a lot of doctors used to want to provide care, but the commercial pressure of med/grad/insternship school, paying back loans, fighting with insurance companies and the $250K overhead that averages per independent prac ioner force them to be patient-flippers and fee-for-service s, running up invoices as fast as they can. One report I read said 50% of docs wouldn't be a doctor again. Many who want to be independent, self-employed are forced into associate groups to share overheads and the staff for fighting insurance companies.

Solution? Kill fee for service, make the docs employees on comfortable salaries, and focus them of health results, and "evidence-based" medicine rather than invoices.

[antimvp]

"there are people who lead a life of service"

From what I read, a lot of doctors used to want to provide care, but the commercial pressure of med/grad/insternship school, paying back loans, fighting with insurance companies and the $250K overhead that averages per independent prac ioner force them to be patient-flippers and fee-for-service s, running up invoices as fast as they can. One report I read said 50% of docs wouldn't be a doctor again. Many who want to be independent, self-employed are forced into associate groups to share overheads and the staff for fighting insurance companies.

Solution? Kill fee for service, make the docs employees on comfortable salaries, and focus them of health results, and "evidence-based" medicine rather than invoices.

[boutons_deux]

Free Market Health Care, no more government controls on the commerce of health care; if my doctor wants to do house calls and provide care in exchange for fresh eggs, he should be able to do that. If he wants to be a "concierge" doctor in the Hamptons, like that silly new show, he should be able to do that. Go to school, get competent, receive a license to practice your trade and then, go out an do it.

Tort Reform, reduce the cost to doctor's and hospitals to actually do their jobs.

Privately-purchased a la carte Insurance (no more employer-based Group Insurance Programs), pay me a wage and let me buy my insurance; if I want only catastrophic, I only get catastrophic. If I want a $15,000.00 deductible, let me have it.

Tax-deferred/free health care savings accounts that I can continue to put money in and only use for health care expenditures. (but, if they'd just pass the Fair Tax, that wouldn't be necessary).

First four things off the top of my head.

What a bunch of ideological, talking-point, ideological bull , as stinkingly rotten, dishonest, deceptive, as "principled" as ideological bull from Wild Goober.

aka, EVERYTHING wrong with universe is the govt's fault.

[SouthernFried]

Most things "wrong" with the universe...ARE the govt's fault.

Walmart doesn't start wars...govt's do.
Sears doesn't jail people...govt's do.
Mexico isn't corrupt because of McDonalds...the govt is corrupt.
Ford didn't massacre people in Tianimin square...the govt. did.
Best Buy doesn't confiscate 30% of your paycheck...the govt does.
The holocaust wasn't done by Wendy's...it was done by the Nazi Govt.
Gulags weren't created by Exxon...they were created by the Soviet Govt.
The killings in Waco, or Ohio (if your old enough to remember the 60's,) weren't done by Valero...the were done by govt...

5,000 years of recorded human history is out there. The more power govts have...the more they abuse it.

It's insanity to wantingly and consistently give govt more power over you.

[Cry Havoc]

Free Market Health Care, no more government controls on the commerce of health care; if my doctor wants to do house calls and provide care in exchange for fresh eggs, he should be able to do that. If he wants to be a "concierge" doctor in the Hamptons, like that silly new show, he should be able to do that. Go to school, get competent, receive a license to practice your trade and then, go out an do it.

Tort Reform, reduce the cost to doctor's and hospitals to actually do their jobs.

Privately-purchased a la carte Insurance (no more employer-based Group Insurance Programs), pay me a wage and let me buy my insurance; if I want only catastrophic, I only get catastrophic. If I want a $15,000.00 deductible, let me have it.

Tax-deferred/free health care savings accounts that I can continue to put money in and only use for health care expenditures. (but, if they'd just pass the Fair Tax, that wouldn't be necessary).

First four things off the top of my head.

Free market health care is a pipe dream and you are living in a fantasy. You cannot begin to fathom what's wrong with it, and I'm not going to bother to explain it to you, because even if I did, you'd spin my words and turn it into a I-said you-said confrontation about how I'm just a stupid liberal (I'm not) and anything I espouse will lead to socialism, exactly has every false conservative has been doing on the board since the presidential elections.

[DarrinS]

Most things "wrong" with the universe...ARE the govt's fault.

Walmart doesn't start wars...govt's do.
Sears doesn't jail people...govt's do.
Mexico isn't corrupt because of McDonalds...the govt is corrupt.
Ford didn't massacre people in Tianimin square...the govt. did.
Best Buy doesn't confiscate 30% of your paycheck...the govt does.
The holocaust wasn't done by Wendy's...it was done by the Nazi Govt.
Gulags weren't created by Exxon...they were created by the Soviet Govt.
The killings in Waco, or Ohio (if your old enough to remember the 60's,) weren't done by Valero...the were done by govt...

5,000 years of recorded human history is out there. The more power govts have...the more they abuse it.

It's insanity to wantingly and consistently give govt more power over you.

[DarrinS]

What a bunch of ideological, talking-point, ideological bull , as stinkingly rotten, dishonest, deceptive, "principled" as ideological bull from Wild Goober.

aka, EVERYTHING wrong with universe is the govt's fault.

If there were a couple hundred people in a room who were just like you, would that cons ute an angry mob?

[Yonivore]

What a bunch of ideological, talking-point, ideological bull , as stinkingly rotten, dishonest, deceptive, "principled" as ideological bull from Wild Goober.

aka, EVERYTHING wrong with universe is the govt's fault.

No, but if you look back at just the last 100 years, much of what is wrong is due to liberals, progressives, or socialists...except that caused by Islamic extremists.

[Cry Havoc]

Most things "wrong" with the universe...ARE the govt's fault.

Wow. Let's just see about your quotes there, chicken.

Walmart doesn't start wars...govt's do.

You're right. They don't start wars. They just enslave and oppress people overseas to create a monopoly on getting a cheaper product. Beautiful example.

Sears doesn't jail people...govt's do.

Since Sears is a merchandising company, I fail to see the comparison here. So putting people in jail is bad now? Interesting take.

Mexico isn't corrupt because of McDonalds...the govt is corrupt.

Mexico is corrupt because they're an extremely poor country with little to no resources to export to the world at large, and the government doesn't have enough money to suppress large scale mafia warfare. You're bordering racism here.

Ford didn't massacre people in Tianimin square...the govt. did.

Again, this comparison is stupid. It's against company interests to start wars when they are making money hand over fist, but that does not mean they are treating the consumer or their workers within the bounds of human rights.

Just because a corporation would rather make money than shoot someone does not automatically make their motives pure and free of abuse.

Best Buy doesn't confiscate 30% of your paycheck...the govt does.

And then Best Buy confiscates the other 70% when we as a nation think we need 4 LCD TVs in our house and a refrigerator with a television.

The holocaust wasn't done by Wendy's...it was done by the Nazi Govt.

You're right. There has never been a case of a corporation enslaving or killing a group of people.

Do yourself a favor and read about the storied history of British Petroleum. I know, it's easy to point the finger at the government 100% of the time and blame it for every failing, but just educate yourself for once before you open your mouth. Please.

Gulags weren't created by Exxon...they were created by the Soviet Govt.

Exxon? You're bringing Exxon into this as a model for why we should trust companies/free market over government? Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exxon_Valdez

Have a nice day, sir.

5,000 years of recorded human history is out there. The more power govts have...the more they abuse it.

No. The more power HUMANS have, the more they abuse it. This is not regulated to just governments, although making them out to be a scapegoat is a pretty popular tactic.

It's insanity to wantingly and consistently give govt more power over you.

Would paying $700 for a simple doctor's visit consist and $3000 for a couple of routine scans consist of "me having the power" in the situation? How about $300 for medication that costs pennies to make? Sure, I could refuse if I want to possibly not see 60 years old.

I love that you're using corporations as your "good side" in this argument. They are easily the most corrupt, power hungry, anti-human rights factions in existence. They care about one thing -- money and making more of it.

[Wild Cobra]

Personally, I'm all for insurance companies imploding. They are the leading reason health care sucks in this nation, they produce no service or product and they take money.

insurance companies in any way possible the way I see it (and those who support them). It's to the point that we have to completely crash this system to fix it, there are too many greedy hands in line.

They are more efficient at getting the money to the doctors than the government is at administrating things. Think it's bad now, wait till the government's doing it.

[Wild Cobra]

I don't care about medicare, medicaid. koolaid whatever the

I want a public option

Then quit work and sign up for medicaid.

Actually, you might already qualify for it.

[SouthernFried]

Wow. Let's just see about your quotes there, chicken.

Well, o to you too.

You're right. They "walmart" don't start wars.

Well, there you have it.

They just enslave and oppress people overseas to create a monopoly on getting a cheaper product.

Walmart buys a lot from China now (you probably have a few chinese products,) Walmart doesn't enslave or oppress the Chinese people any more than you do. The Chinese GOVERNMENT does.

Beautiful example.

Thank you.

Since Sears is a merchandising company, I fail to see the comparison here.

We are, and have been, comparing corportaions to govt. Sears is a corporation.

So putting people in jail is bad now? Interesting take.

Never said putting people in jail was a bad...or good idea. I said business doesn't have the power to do it...GOVT does.

Mexico is corrupt because they're an extremely poor country with little to no resources to export to the world at large, and the government doesn't have enough money to suppress large scale mafia warfare.

Mexico has TONS of resources. An oil exporting country, ariable land, huge offshore/fishing resources, larger supplies of resources than most countries and a hardworking, willing workforce. With all the resources Mexico has, there should be absolutely no reason they should be poor. They should be one of the richer countries in the world. The one thing that is holding them back...corruption at almost every level of GOVT

You're bordering racism here.

I was talking about countries and govts'. I've used many countries in my analogies. Haven't mentioned race in any of them. The fact you chose Mexico and decided to label me a racist for using that country...dunno what to say.

Again, this comparison is stupid. It's against company interests to start wars.

I am not sure how you could miss this...that is my point!

when they are making money hand over fist,

A principle I generally support.

but that does not mean they are treating the consumer or their workers within the bounds of human rights.

Well, if you think a Company is NOT "treating the consumer within the bounds of human rights" (???)...then shop somewhere else. The wonder of Free Markets allows that, choice. Try shopping somewhere else under Govt Health Care if you think they are not "treating the consumer within the bounds of human rights." Same with the way workers are treated. Workers have choices under Free Markets...workers have less choices working for the Govt. Under Govt health care...you will be working for the govt.

If you haven't figured it out, Choice = Freedom.

"People who don't like or fear Free Markets...fear Freedom itself"

Just because a corporation would rather make money than shoot someone does not automatically make their motives pure and free of abuse.

Never said anyone is "pure and free of abuse." But given 2 greedy and corrupt people, side by side...I prefer the one that "Would rather make money than shoot someone."

And then Best Buy confiscates the other 70% when we as a nation think we need 4 LCD TVs in our house and a refrigerator with a television.

Do you consider buying something you want or need...confiscation? I think we may have 2 different definitions here.

Exxon? You're bringing Exxon into this as a model for why we should trust companies/free market over government? Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exxon_Valdez

Exxon had an oil spill. Do you realize the biggest polluter in the US...is the US govt? Do you even know about all the govt pollution going on? We know all about Exxons accident...do you know about the govts? Who is more trustworthy? Do you think the govt is more trustworthy then Exxon?

Have a nice day, sir.

Thanks, you too.

No. The more power HUMANS have, the more they abuse it. This is not regulated to just governments, although making them out to be a scapegoat is a pretty popular tactic.

If it's "not regulated to just govts." What en ies have more power than govts?

Would paying $700 for a simple doctor's visit consist and $3000 for a couple of routine scans consist of "me having the power" in the situation? How about $300 for medication that costs pennies to make? Sure, I could refuse if I want to possibly not see 60 years old.

In the govt option, you won't even have the freedom to "refuse." Like car insurance now, it will be illegal to not have it..."for your own good, of course."

If you don't like prices, what is the best, most tried and true method throughout history...to keep prices lower. Increased competion...not less. The govt intrusion in the Health care marketplace is the 1 reason prices have escalated. Wage and price controls don't work...we tried them in the 70's under Nixon. Govt interference into marketplaces distorts them. Govt's don't know what they are doing...so screw up anything to do with marketplaces and competetion.

Govt Interference ALWAYS increases prices and costs....always.

I love that you're using corporations as your "good side" in this argument. They are easily the most corrupt, power hungry, anti-human rights factions in existence. They care about one thing -- money and making more of it.

If you truely believe business's are the "most corrupt, power hungry, anti-human rights factions in existence," after 5000 years of human history showing what govts do to each other and to their people...there is nothing more I can say except...Go Spurs!

Oops, Spurs are a corporation too...my bad