Should the Spurs Be Shopping Tony Parker?

[portnoy1]

Let's assume for the moment that everything you say in this post is true.

Wouldn't the problem, as you see it, be with the coaching, the offensive schemes and the complementary players available and not necessarily with the point guard?

In the hypothetical scenario in which Parker is swapped for Rondo, are you really that sure that the Spurs offensive production would increase while the Celtics would see a drop in team offense?

Its not all Parkers fault. In another post I explained that half the problem in the Mavs series was Parkers. The other half was Pops. When Parker is asked to be just a distributor ( all supporting players from parkers era included ) Parker has lots of trouble. He has a hard time balancing Scoring and Passing, thats why I dont really say to much about Pop's coaching in the Mavs series. If he were to start calling every-play that would limit Parkers abilities to a large-degree. If you were to send Rondo to the spurs and he was given the current to command Minus Jefferson, I'm sure he would get better production from the role-players if Pop gave him the same freedom as Parker. If you put Parker on the C's minus Wallace then you would see significantly less scoring from Allen, but more scoring from the PG position ( Parker ) if Doc allowed Parker the same freedom as Rondo.

[SpurNation]

When Parker is asked to be just a distributor ( all supporting players from parkers era included ) Parker has lots of trouble. He has a hard time balancing Scoring and Passing,

Could this be because there was nobody else that could make something happen?

Next season will be a different situation with the new players (RJ) and a healthy Manu.

By the way...if Parker had the players that Rondo has to distribute to...he would have the same numbers also.

Rondo is a product of his environment more so than just being Rondo.

[kace]

apg is an overrated stat.


let's look at the teams with great assists PG.

we all know that, obviously, the teams with an assist first PG aren't winning the le the last years. that fact only should lead to the statement that a high apg PG isn't as great as some people say or think.

if you take two of the greatest assist PG in the league, often included and compared with TP in the top 3 nba PG rankings, D-Will and CP3, you see that when they're not on the court, their team have almost the same amount of assists per game.

for Utah, it's 24,6 with D-Will and 24 without him (14 games missed in 08-9)

for NOH, it's 20,2 apg with CP3, 19.5 without him (even if it's a small sample of 4 games in 08-09).



let's now look at the percentage of points assisted of the 6 teams whom PG have more than 8 apg and are considered as assists first PG/ "floor generals":
NOH (55%), Mavs (57%), Suns (56%), Utah (64%), toronto (60%) and Boston (55%).

LA is at 58% and the Spurs at 57%, which means with or above most of these teams (except maybe Utah that is a little ahead).

let's be clear, i think that CP3, Dwill and most of these PG are great and useful players.

but, again, the APG stat alone is an overrated stat IMO.


PS: stats from NBA.com and 82games.com

[Macca76]

Its not all Parkers fault. In another post I explained that half the problem in the Mavs series was Parkers. The other half was Pops. When Parker is asked to be just a distributor ( all supporting players from parkers era included ) Parker has lots of trouble. He has a hard time balancing Scoring and Passing, thats why I dont really say to much about Pop's coaching in the Mavs series. If he were to start calling every-play that would limit Parkers abilities to a large-degree. If you were to send Rondo to the spurs and he was given the current to command Minus Jefferson, I'm sure he would get better production from the role-players if Pop gave him the same freedom as Parker. If you put Parker on the C's minus Wallace then you would see significantly less scoring from Allen, but more scoring from the PG position ( Parker ) if Doc allowed Parker the same freedom as Rondo.

Honestly, only a few can bring the PO games against Dallas as a case against TP !
Unbelievale ! The guy had the best series of his life, and he was the only reason this series vaguely looked like one. We would have been spanked by 20 pts each game if it was not for TP. No one could hit a shot and of course it was because TP wouldn't want to share the ball! He averaged 6.9 assts in the series, exactly the same as reg. season. Do you remember when what happened when TP tried to involve everyone (like a assist first PG) or when he was out of the game? Spanked each time !

When I hear you, saying " we've got good scorers, we need an assist first PG !", I can't help but think Suns or Warriors => good idea, wreally should change our game philosophy which brought 4 les (3 with TP as you know). What we need is a PG who scores because the team is designed for this.

One last thing, look at the above stats (2009 PO efficiency) , and look for the eff. , TP is 8th and 5th / 48 min, for what it's worth

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player...DD=All%20Teams

[spurs10]

Anyone who thinks we should shop Tony has got to be a Lakers fan. He's a horrible match-up for L.A. and will give them much grief in the coming season.

[Blackjack]

How did this get to 5 pages?

The Spurs go all-in, throw caution to the win in regards to luxury-tax, and do so with the sole purpose of trying to get another ring while Tim and Manu are still capable of completeing the Big 3, but they should entertain trading Parker?

Again.

[portnoy1]

The bottom line is that we'll have to wait and see. I dont think Parker will effectively Run the offense, Especially sense he'll have no excuse not to give up the ball. He have a healthy Manu Tim and Richard as oppose to Mason, Finley and Bonner. However maybe with the right pieces in place now, he will run a flawless offense With a deron williams type approach, LIKE - Take your shots here and there, but make sure you run the offense kinda thing. Deron Williams take his share of shots but still manages to keep J.Sloan happy. If Parker can do that+Pop adds in more diverse plays in the offense ( Involving Jefferson ofcourse. Back-cuts / lobs ) Then we'll go all the way. If not, Try to trade before it gets to close to the Deadline, that way whoever you bring in will have a decent time to adjust.

[honestfool84]

The bottom line is that we'll have to wait and see. I dont think Parker will effectively Run the offense, Especially sense he'll have no excuse not to give up the ball. He have a healthy Manu Tim and Richard as oppose to Mason, Finley and Bonner. However maybe with the right pieces in place now, he will run a flawless offense With a deron williams type approach, LIKE - Take your shots here and there, but make sure you run the offense kinda thing. Deron Williams take his share of shots but still manages to keep J.Sloan happy. If Parker can do that+Pop adds in more diverse plays in the offense ( Involving Jefferson ofcourse. Back-cuts / lobs ) Then we'll go all the way. If not, Try to trade before it gets to close to the Deadline, that way whoever you bring in will have a decent time to adjust.

it's hard to take anything you say seriously when you show how stupid you are with EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR POSTS full of animosity towards tony parker.

[FkLA]

Did YOU watch the playoffs last year? He only put up 3 trip-doubles, and the only reason his averages were what they were was because of having one or two games with outlandish single category stats based on the fact no one else on that Celts team could do anything. He has no jumper, and the only reason he got to the rim as much as he did, was poor defending by the opposition.

He was at or near a triple-double very often during the playoffs, thats impressive regardless of how u try to spin it. He has no jumper? Its better than Tony's thats for sure, and stop it with the poor defending bull ...so I guess everytime Tony blows by someone its poor defending as well? Give credit where credit is due, Rondo was a beast in the playoffs.

So does Parker, that is scary.

You cant really compare 23 to 27, Parker still has room to improve no doubt but nowhere near as much as Rondo.

Perkins didn't even average a double-double last year. And the only reason he did in the playoffs is because Garnett was out. Are you suggesting Perkins would be our #1 big man.

And your main argument for Rondo is that he is young. Are you trying to say Mahinmi is old and can't improve?

I said he's very capable of being a double-double guy...he averaged like 9 and 9 in the reg season last yr and he's 24. Im not saying he should be our #1 big man, Im saying he could contribute now and if he developes as planned should be a solid 15-10 guy.

Mahinmi is an unknown, as much as u guys want to play him up...he is raw and we have no idea what he will do this season. I hope he does great but u really cant predict how well he'll do.

Rondo's a fluke, headcase that was actually getting shopped. Tony is a much better scorer, penetrator, and (after this year will show ) better General then Rondo will ever be.

This is getting so overplayed, one small outburst by Rondo and he's a headcase? So I guess Tony is a headcase for speaking out against the Spurs during the French NT injury?

And Parker is the better player at the moment, dont get this idea that I think Tony is trash or that I dont like him....but Rondo can hold his own and is only 23. I just had a problem with all these Spurs fans viewing the trade like it was laughable or something when in reality its not a bad trade proposal at all. Youre getting Rondo who is already a good player and has tons of upside and Perkins who is proven and a better guarantee than Mahinmi. Its actually not a bad trade if u dont let the homerism blind, not that its actually going to happen though. I dont think either team is even remotely considering this trade.

[DPG21920]

TP's jumper >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rondo's jumper.

[Chieflion]

TP's jumper >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rondo's jumper.

I don't think the Spurs paid Tony to shoot jumpers, do you? I don't think the Celtics pay Rondo for his shooting, do you?

[DPG21920]

What? Yes. The Spurs pay TP to score. That is not the point. The guy above said Rondo's jumper was better than TP's. That is false.

[Macca76]

I don't think the Spurs paid Tony to shoot jumpers, do you? I don't think the Celtics pay Rondo for his shooting, do you?

Actually, I do think that in a way, the spurs pay TP to shoot jumpers, that's why they Hired Chip Engelland. A part of TP's salary is due for his improved jumper, because that's what makes him a nightmare for opposite defenses.

[Darkwaters]

The author's logic is flawed. Just because cap situations were that way in the past doesn't mean that they MUST continue that way. This whole offseason has been unusual when it comes to salary figures. But the FO has stated that they're doing this intentionally. Now this poster is stating that we're going to flip it all back around? Don't think so.

hes not even in his prime yet and he is a veteran in our system.

Seriously? The dude is 27. When is he going to be in his prime if not now? In 3 years people will be talking about him breaking down because hes 30. No, hes in his prime NOW.

[Darkwaters]

I don't think the Spurs paid Tony to shoot jumpers, do you? I don't think the Celtics pay Rondo for his shooting, do you?

Being a good jump shooter makes you a better slasher. People have to respect your jump shot and that gives you more room to take it hard to the rack.

So, yes, the Spurs do pay tony to shoot jumpers.

[Chieflion]

Being a good jump shooter makes you a better slasher. People have to respect your jump shot and that gives you more room to take it hard to the rack.

So, yes, the Spurs do pay tony to shoot jumpers.

Not really. I mean Rondo still gets to the rack easily. They say it is easy to if you have Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett with you, but you will still have a guy sticking to you at all times.

I do agree that Parker is paid to shoot a little, but basically take every chance to attack the rim primarily. It would make me sick to see Parker chucking jump shots all day.

Parker did it well before in 2004, 2005 when his jump shot was terrible. That was how he was paid based upon.

[Muser]

He was at or near a triple-double very often during the playoffs, thats impressive regardless of how u try to spin it. He has no jumper? Its better than Tony's thats for sure, and stop it with the poor defending bull ...so I guess everytime Tony blows by someone its poor defending as well? Give credit where credit is due, Rondo was a beast in the playoffs.




You cant really compare 23 to 27, Parker still has room to improve no doubt but nowhere near as much as Rondo.




I said he's very capable of being a double-double guy...he averaged like 9 and 9 in the reg season last yr and he's 24. Im not saying he should be our #1 big man, Im saying he could contribute now and if he developes as planned should be a solid 15-10 guy.

Mahinmi is an unknown, as much as u guys want to play him up...he is raw and we have no idea what he will do this season. I hope he does great but u really cant predict how well he'll do.



This is getting so overplayed, one small outburst by Rondo and he's a headcase? So I guess Tony is a headcase for speaking out against the Spurs during the French NT injury?

And Parker is the better player at the moment, dont get this idea that I think Tony is trash or that I dont like him....but Rondo can hold his own and is only 23. I just had a problem with all these Spurs fans viewing the trade like it was laughable or something when in reality its not a bad trade proposal at all. Youre getting Rondo who is already a good player and has tons of upside and Perkins who is proven and a better guarantee than Mahinmi. Its actually not a bad trade if u dont let the homerism blind, not that its actually going to happen though. I dont think either team is even remotely considering this trade.

[SonOfAGun]

Parker is the best player on the Spurs. The offense quit running through TD years ago.

I don't like him, but that is truth.

[MrFundamental]

He was at or near a triple-double very often during the playoffs, thats impressive regardless of how u try to spin it.

No, he wasn't. I'm not spinning anything. He had a few outstanding games that exaggerated his stats.

He has no jumper? Its better than Tony's thats for sure,

You have got to be ing kidding me. It's even a Boston joke that he needs shooting lessons.

and stop it with the poor defending bull ...so I guess everytime Tony blows by someone its poor defending as well?

Yes, you think it's good defending to let Parker drive by you?

, if you even think about it, the times Rose felt like defending, Rondo couldn't get a shot off.

You cant really compare 23 to 27, Parker still has room to improve no doubt but nowhere near as much as Rondo.

That is true, Rondo is really ty, so his ceiling is much higher.

I said he's very capable of being a double-double guy...he averaged like 9 and 9 in the reg season last yr and he's 24. Im not saying he should be our #1 big man, Im saying he could contribute now and if he developes as planned should be a solid 15-10 guy.

http://kneejerknba.blogspot.com/2009...hael-cage.html

Mahinmi is an unknown, as much as u guys want to play him up...he is raw and we have no idea what he will do this season. I hope he does great but u really cant predict how well he'll do.

Of course not, just like you can't predict that Perkins will be anything but a 5/5 guy when not the #1.

This is getting so overplayed, one small outburst by Rondo and he's a headcase?

You really think one small outburst made Ainge want to get rid of such "a beast in the playoffs"?

[Sissiborgo]

He's one of the best PG in the leauge! did one of a job last season!

[portnoy1]

Parker and Rondo arent in the same category. Parker is a big gun on the team who gives you 22-30pts/ 7ast a night. However Rondo is SOLID role player around Pierce/Garnett/Allen. If you put Rondo on the spurs and tell him to score 20-25pts like Parker then he would struggle. If you put Parker on the C's and tell him to run the offense and score when nessecary, then Parker would struggle. With the acquisition of RJ, I fail to see how that will make the spurs that much better. Instead of adding a big 4, they should have just continued adding Solid role-players around the big 3. This makes me think that RJ's game will suffer. Just like Parkers game would suffer if he went to the C's. The only reason I would trade Parker for Rondo/Perkins is because we have RJ. That way the big 3 of Tim/Manu/RJ can put up numbers while Rondo solely runs the offense, scoring when nessecary and Perkins grabs rebounds and gets blks to help Tim. With the big 3 of Tim/Manu/Tony, RJ now is gonna be a role-player with shadows of his former self like Finley, unless the spurs tweak their system.