Times are different than back in 1929 but thankfully my grandfather is still alive from that era and has recounted many instances of growing up in that period.
His speculation is that if this country were to have to suffer through a depression like the 30's it would subcomb to another country either via physical invasion or fiscal manipulation.
Could this be the reason for the financial bailout of the banks?
Absolutely. Create a large enough debt, and other countries can no loner keep the dollar stable. Once it drops on the world marker, the democrats will cause another repression, and give them all the reason in the world to nationalize everything like the Nazi's did to Germany.
pffft
I'll interject another point my grandfather made regarding this. Back in the 30's there were government programs aimed at helping people who wanted to work...today there are government programs providing for those who don't want to work.
I'll gladly trade them for some Mexicans and Chinese that have work ethics.
This is probably the most profound point I've heard on this, or any other board...in a very, very long time.
to your grandfather.
dems need those programs to stay in business. their investment in the KKK kinda had a snag.
Last edited by Viva Las Espuelas; 08-24-2009 at 04:37 PM.
It'd definitely be different seeing as how no one in this day and age grows their own food save a few.
Invaded by another country though? No.
"today there are government programs providing for those who don't want to work."
There are millions of people right now who are out of work thanks to the banksters, people with good credit and prime rate mortgages, that want to work and can't find it, are losing their homes now or very soon.
but if Magic Negro tried to "make work" the way Roosevelt did, he would be shouted down by Repug-incited mobs and asshole Sentors like Grassly and similar ilk. The Repugs, and many here on this board, want Magic Negro to fail, no matter what he and Dems try to do, and no matter how much pain failure will inflict on millions of people. It's call All Politics, All The Time (and America).
People don't realize how very, very close the USA came to collapse or revolution during FDR's time. In the 1930's, a lot of people thought the Depression proved that capitalism and liberal democracy were failures, and were willing to turn to fascism or communism. For FDR to steer the country through was a major accomplishment.
If it were to happen today, we would simply descend into chaos.
"For FDR to steer the country through was a major accomplishment."
... and conservatives and Repugs think FDR was one of the worst presidents whose accomplishments must be undone (and dubya placed on Mt Rushmore).
Where are you getting that information...from my experience in talking to people (most conservatives included) think FDR was a savior for this country."For FDR to steer the country through was a major accomplishment."
... and conservatives and Repugs think FDR was one of the worst presidents whose accomplishments must be undone (and dubya placed on Mt Rushmore
By the way....FDR was more conservative in action than most moderate conservatives of today and definately more democratic than most democrats of today.
go look up what the neo-cons think about FDR
I think it really could balkanize the nation and people may want to opt out of the federal state thing.FDR didn't do our prosperity came after the war when we were they only industrial nation on the planet that wasn't bombed into rubble.
Another "Great Depression" only means the end of a government which is already ruined by a socialist and his claws, the 50 states are perpetual.
Govt spending is out of control...and the most out of control aspects of it, are a direct result of FDR.
If your upset at the dependency on Govt now, and people who look more and more to govt to take care of them. If you don't like the socialist, collectivist bent this country is taking away from the freedom and individual Liberty the founders of this country supported...
You have to look no farther than FDR. Who is the father of this movement in the US.
"but..but...he saved us during the great depression!"
Actually, he prolonged the Great Depression, just like Obama is prolonging and worsening this recession...
That's the stupidest wing-nut re-creation of history on the en planet
there also was no social net, so we had things like malnutrition of children, out-breaks of controllable disease, and soup kitchen - happy days!
If you listen to the left...we still have all those things.there also was no social net, so we had things like malnutrition of children, out-breaks of controllable disease, and soup kitchen - happy days!
plus the Trillions of debt
Do you think spelling it " en" is somehow less profane than spelling it correctly?
That's the stupidest wing-nut re-creation of history on the en planet
Just curious.
I think a great depression would be good for the country...basically we are a bunch of spoiled ass brats that have never known need or want in generations at the National level...Great depressions tend to force you to get in touch with what's really important. The generation that came out of the great depression was one of the most productive and in touch with reality in American history...I don't think that'd be a bad thing.
I don't think it'd be a bad thing if it forced the break up of the US either. States that want to be a part of the US should be able to do so and states that don't shouldn't have too.
If the country is growing apart it's just as much a factor of evolution as it is anything else...there's nothing positive abount forcing massing groups of people into some collective group they don't want to be in...it will only lead to conflict.
It's like trying to make bad marriage work...
I also don't think it would lead to civil war...depends on which group wants the secession...the Red states would actively celebrate the dissolution of the Uniion...it's the blue states that don't want it, and never did(except when Bush was President).
Hopefully Sarah will get elected President and when the big blue states want to secede...we can all just agree to go our separate ways.
I don't support the Iraqis being forced to be united in some geographical prison, so I damn sure don't support it for my own country.
Bring on the depression, and the dissolution of the union...we won't have to worry about carrying the burden of being the world leader anymore either, so maybe Russia, China and Usama will like us then and I know that's(world leader) a burden liberals have been wantiing to shed for a while now
Just split it up by political party...it already is idelogically anyway.
I pretty much despise all liberals at this stage, but I have absolutely no problem with them being allowed to go their separate way and have their own country...more power to them. Just make sure both side get the nukes....for a war deterrent.
Last edited by whottt; 08-25-2009 at 04:13 AM.
Uh, the epitome of facism is forcing people to stay together when they don't want to do so.
Yes & No. FDR was basically forced to take radical means to solve a dire situation. It was at this time that we first saw the marriage of big business and government intervention. Sure there were some business/government interaction before this time but not on the scale that was about to happen.
Not only was the economy in the pits...agriculture, farm and ranch, industry, everything associated with life in this country was affected by the depression.
Instead of withering and allowing facists, communist and socialist extremes take over the political system...FDR put people to work. Infrastructure programs, National Resources, Agriculture were all saved through the various programs deerived from the FDR administration.
It was truly a time when people HAD to work with each other. Was there discourse amongst some...sure. But these programs were never intended to become staple of America. They were developed to help a starving, deteriating country to get back on it's feet.
But the dynamics of this country changed at that time...people were forced to flock to tent cities, labor camps and migration groups. And big business was more than happy to supply it's new found customer...the U.S. Government.
Raw materials, food, labor and transportation all were in extreme demand now. And it had to happen so fast that labor laws were non-existent at that time. Fairness wasn't even thought about because people were just happy to keep their families fed and some sort of shelter over their heads.
FDR made sure private industry were "partners" in this endeavor. And in doing so he vehimanately refused to allow government to become socialistic or communist.
Of course there were risks, but to not do anything other than the programs he helped to establish as a temporary means to pull the country out of total colapse was better than the alternatives that were quickly setting foot across the nation. And though not single handedly...FDR made sure that free enterprise was going to be the one thing this country did not loose.
Cataclysm is the harbinger of humility.
I can understand such projects as the WPA, which people put to work...and even the Fair labor stuff...
But, SS is about as socialist as you can get. This was not a "temporary" make work program. It was designed to be socialist, and it was designed to last forever. Today, SS is our biggest drain on resources. This is FDR.
Remember, FDR wanted to put much, much more socialist stuff into govt. I don't know how many times his proposals were ruled "uncons utional" by the courts. He took us off Gold standard, started Fannie May, FDIC, etc...these were giant govt takeovers...these were not make work programs. And, many of these programs, are destroying the economic viability of the US, imho...
FDR is the father of modern day US socialism and big govt.
Whether or not you think he wanted to do it or not...he did. I think he wanted to myself. But, differing folks may...differ.
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