CIA staged mock executions

[LnGrrrR]

How many of those psychiatrists/psychologists have ever been put in a situation of having to decide whether or not lives could be saved by their ability to extract information from someone? One thing to just sit back in the academic world and define torture as forcefully subjecting someone to situations they'd prefer not to be in and then decide that you'd never do something like that. Quite another to be in a situation where you know that lives are at stake. Or worse yet, to be in a situation where you don't know, and it's your job to find out whether or not lives really are at stake.

Surely, I don't need to have my arm cut off to see that it's painful, correct?

In the same manner, one doesn't need to be tortured in order to see the effects on one's patients.

And I'm never saying that torture won't occur, or even that in a miniscule number of cases, it shouldn't. I'm saying that we shouldn't enshrine that capability, to 'enhanced interrogate' anyone, PRECISELY due to reasons like this. If people think waterboarding is ok, but they REALLY want information, then they'll take the next step.

Again, if you knew lives were on the line, what's wrong with REAL torture in the case you cited? What's wrong with pulling off toenails and fingernails, burning the man, or cutting off fingers? I mean, LIVES ARE AT STAKE!

Or is there a line you wouldn't cross either?

[LnGrrrR]

No I wouldn't support this because we would be interogating the wrong person if we KNEW the suspect had information. You can KNOW a person has information doesn't mean they are willing to divuldge that information.




Again...you could KNOW the person has information because of surveilance, proof of their being at a location and to what degree the person would be involved etc...But it doesn't mean they will voluntarily give up that information.

You don't think they would be cautious about that possibility? Do you think the people doing this are rookies? I'm sure they hold all precautions top priority knowing who they are dealing with.

If they weren't rookies, then why did they break the law and stage mock executions? If you read the article, you'd see that administration officials admit that these were over the line and totally contrary to the administration's aim. Obviously, the people performing these interrogations were either A) not experts or B) didn't care about the law.

[SpurNation]

If they weren't rookies, then why did they break the law and stage mock executions? If you read the article, you'd see that administration officials admit that these were over the line and totally contrary to the administration's aim. Obviously, the people performing these interrogations were either A) not experts or B) didn't care about the law.

C) Given authority but are now scape goats due to public knowledge.

I'm really curious to know what was learned and in what was learned how many innocent lives were saved. That's a fact that will never become public knowledge.

[LnGrrrR]

C) Given authority but are now scape goats due to public knowledge.

I'm really curious to know what was learned and in what was learned how many innocent lives were saved. That's a fact that will never become public knowledge.

You're missing my point.

Tell me, how many lives need to be saved to make torture acceptable? What's the number?

[sabar]

I'm going to be bold and say that the cost of maintaining prisons and paying the whole system is more than just bearing the cost of a possible terrorist attack. What exactly have we prevented? Terrorists have all been terrorizing europe and the U.K. the past several years, what are we looking for? If it's to help them, then they can do it themselves. And what business does the CIA even have in this field? Leave the whole thing to the military, not a civilian agency.

[sabar]

C) Given authority but are now scape goats due to public knowledge.

I'm really curious to know what was learned and in what was learned how many innocent lives were saved. That's a fact that will never become public knowledge.

You could just read the hundreds of studies that show that torture produces a bunch of false confessions that just murk the waters.

I know for a fact that I would lie about a crime I didnt commit if I was about to get executed or shocked or told my family was gonna die.

[SpurNation]

You're missing my point.

Tell me, how many lives need to be saved to make torture acceptable? What's the number?

I guess we will agree to disagree though I do understand your point about any "innocent" person being mentally tortured. But I guess you will never understand my point.

By the way...how many innocent lives need to be lost because one person known to have information would not be pushed to divuldge the information?

[clambake]

they were all known to have information.......u get it?

[SpurNation]

You could just read the hundreds of studies that show that torture produces a bunch of false confessions that just murk the waters.

I know for a fact that I would lie about a crime I didnt commit if I was about to get executed or shocked or told my family was gonna die.

Again...I'm not talking about just possibilities...I'm saying if they know a person would have information.

[LnGrrrR]

I guess we will agree to disagree though I do understand your point about any "innocent" person being mentally tortured. But I guess you will never understand my point.

By the way...how many innocent lives need to be lost because one person known to have information would not be pushed to divuldge the information?

I understand your point; I just disagree.

Since you are the one arguing for it, you tell me: how many potential innocent lives would YOU be willing to torture for? Hm?

[SpurNation]

they were all known to have information.......u get it?

got it...and apparently so did they...and how many lives were saved?

[SpurNation]

I understand your point; I just disagree.

Since you are the one arguing for it, you tell me: how many potential innocent lives would YOU be willing to torture for? Hm?

I'm not the only one arguing a point...so are you.

[LnGrrrR]

I'm not the only one arguing a point...so are you.

Ok fine, I'll answer first. None.

Your turn!

[SpurNation]

Ok fine, I'll answer first. None.

Your turn!

Torture for? - If I knew they had info that would help save innocent lives -any of them that fell into that category.

To innocently kill to retrieve info...none.

[LnGrrrR]

Torture for? - If I knew they had info that would help save innocent lives -any of them that fell into that category.

To innocently kill to retrieve info...none.

So, you'd be willing to torture someone to save one innocent life?

[SpurNation]

So, you'd be willing to torture someone to save one innocent life?

If torturing (not killing) one "known" individual to be an enemy and it would save one innocent person...yes. Especially if that innocent person is a child.

[jack sommerset]

People have problems with mock executions. ing classic

Personally I'm for watrerboarding over pretending to kill people in other rooms. If it works then more power to them. I support torture to save even one american life.

[Jacob1983]

If torturing terrorist suspects would have saved everyone on 9/11, would you be for or against it? Sometimes you have to do whatever it takes to saves people lives. You may not like it and it may be wrong but people's lives are more important than whether or not torture is right.

[ChumpDumper]

There has been nothing beyond third hand anecdotal evidence that torture worked.

[Clandestino]

Terrorists kill our people after they torture them..

We subject them to a bit of stress and act like we killed someone in the next room.. umm... what's worse?

[jack sommerset]

There has been nothing beyond third hand anecdotal evidence that torture worked.

That and common sense is good enough for me.

[clambake]

Terrorists kill our people after they torture them..

We subject them to a bit of stress and act like we killed someone in the next room.. umm... what's worse?

this is not the right thread for you.

[ChumpDumper]

That and common sense is good enough for me.

Common sense tells me that torture worked to get false confessions in the past. That's all that has proved.

[jack sommerset]

Common sense tells me that torture worked to get false confessions in the past. That's all that has proved.

That is also true. Life sucks.

[hope4dopes]

Before you go and say, "What's so bad about mock executions?", please, look at the data, especially those that have survived such incidents.

Is it the new feeling of conservatives that the ONLY thing that defines torture is permanent physical disfigurement? Is there no such thing as torture that is mental in nature?

I'm not paying good tax money to scare some head, I want the real executions damn it.