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  1. #1
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Here's the ad they won't air because they say it's 'partisan'





    Here's an ad they're totally fine with.


  2. #2
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    Here's the ad they won't air because they say it's 'partisan'





    Here's an ad they're totally fine with.

    Another McCaughey backtrack: How many more before media discredit her?
    http://mediamatters.org/items/200908270022

    Serial misinformer Betsy McCaughey again backtracked on a false claim she made about health care reform, now writing in The Wall Street Journal that White House adviser Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel believes reform must include "redefining" the Hippocratic Oath; in May, Media Matters for America noted McCaughey had falsely claimed Emanuel wanted to "eliminate" the oath. McCaughey's claim is the latest in a series of instances in which she was caught making an outright false claim about health care reform and backtracked, but nonetheless continued to attack and distort progressives' policies without acknowledging her backtrack from her prior falsehood.
    McCaughey: Emanuel believes reform must include "redefining" the Hippocratic Oath
    From McCaughey's August 27 Journal column:

    Dr. Emanuel says that health reform will not be pain free, and that the usual recommendations for cutting medical spending (often urged by the president) are mere window dressing. As he wrote in the Feb. 27, 2008, issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA): "Vague promises of savings from cutting waste, enhancing prevention and wellness, installing electronic medical records and improving quality of care are merely 'lipstick' cost control, more for show and public relations than for true change."

    True reform, he argues, must include redefining doctors' ethical obligations. In the June 18, 2008, issue of JAMA, Dr. Emanuel blames the Hippocratic Oath for the "overuse" of medical care: "Medical school education and post graduate education emphasize thoroughness," he writes. "This culture is further reinforced by a unique understanding of professional obligations, specifically the Hippocratic Oath's admonition to 'use my power to help the sick to the best of my ability and judgment' as an imperative to do everything for the patient regardless of cost or effect on others." [Wall Street Journal, 8/27/09]

    Emanuel did not "blame" the oath for the "overuse" of medical care. Rather, as Media Matters noted, he argued in his June 18 JAMA piece, co-authored by Victor R. Fuchs, that the culture of health care "overuse" has led physicians to interpret the Hippocratic Oath "as an imperative to do everything for the patient regardless of cost or effect on others."

    McCaughey previously said Emanuel wanted to "eliminate" the Hippocratic Oath
    From the May 11 edition of Fox Business' Cavuto:

    McCAUGHEY: He said you hear all of these vague promises of savings from health information technology, from eliminating waste, from preventive care. He calls that "merely lipstick cost control" -- more for show and PR than for real.

    He said if you want to save money in health care, we're going to have to push doctors to eliminate the Hippocratic Oath and give more attention to costs when they're treating a patient. Don't be focused so much on the welfare of your own patient; think about where else the money could be spent -- maybe for prenatal care for the lady down the hall.

    McCaughey has a history of backtracking her attacks on Democrats' health care proposals when confronted
    CLAIM: Provisions in the economic recovery act would permit the government to dictate treatment.

    Discussing the health care information technology provisions on CNN's Lou Dobbs Tonight, McCaughey asserted, "It promises several things. It promises that whatever the system is, it's going to eliminate inefficient care, excessive care, duplicative care. It's going to eliminate disparities of care between one person and another." Responding to host Lou Dobbs' claim, "[T]he issue is, in whose opinion is it duplication?" McCaughey asserted, "Whatever the federal government deems unnecessary care. Take a look at page 442. And worse yet -- and now I'm speaking really to the physicians -- this bill gives the secretary of Health and Human Services the power to determine which doctors are, quote, 'meaningful users of this new system' -- it's against the rules not to be -- and empowers the secretary to use quote, 'increasingly stringent measures to enforce compliance.' " [2/10/09]
    On Fox News' Glenn Beck, McCaughey said the provisions "explain why every doctor in the United States and every patient will be required to use these records. It says that it will achieve elimination of waste, more cost-effective medicine, that it will eliminate disparities between what one patient gets and another" and that "[t]he secretary of Health and Human Services is empowered to determine which medical providers, doctors, and hospitals are, quote, 'meaningful users of this system,' and therefore, in compliance. And, the HHS secretary is also authorized to use 'increasingly stringent measures' -- that's the language in the bill -- 'to enforce compliance.' " [2/10/09]
    McCaughey backtrack: Legislation is vague enough to allow it to happen in the future. Indeed, CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen reported during the February 11 edition of CNN Newsroom, "I had a PDF of the bill up on my computer. I said, 'Show me where in the bill it says that this bill is going to have the government telling your doctor what to do.' And she directed me to language -- it didn't actually say that. But she said that it was vague enough that it would allow for that to happen in the future." Cohen added, "Now when we asked the folks who wrote this bill, 'Hey, is this bill going to allow the government to tell doctors what to do?" they used words like, 'preposterous' and 'completely and wildly untrue.' "

    CLAIM: The House health care reform bill would "absolutely require" end-of-life counseling.

    On Fred Thompson's July 16 radio show, McCaughey claimed of the House tri-committee health care reform bill:
    McCAUGHEY: And one of the most shocking things I found in this bill, and there were many, is on Page 425, where the Congress would make it mandatory -- absolutely require -- that every five years, people in Medicare have a required counseling session that will tell them how to end their life sooner, how to decline nutrition, how to decline being hydrated, how to go in to ho e care. And by the way, the bill expressly says that if you get sick somewhere in that five-year period -- if you get a cancer diagnosis, for example -- you have to go through that session again. All to do what's in society's best interest or your family's best interest and cut your life short. These are such sacred issues of life and death. Government should have nothing to do with this. [fredthompsonshow.com, interview archives, 07/16/09]

    Following her appearance on Thompson's show, McCaughey made a similar claim in a July 17 New York Post op-ed, writing that "[o]ne troubling provision" of the bill "compels seniors to submit to a counseling session every five years ... about alternatives for end-of-life care," adding that the "mandate invites abuse, and seniors could easily be pushed to refuse care."
    McCaughey backtrack: Bill makes counseling mandatory "in so many words." According to a July 28 Politico article, when asked about criticism of her claim that the bill makes counseling "mandatory" -- a falsehood that earned a "Pants on Fire" status from PolitiFact.com -- McCaughey claimed that she was right about the effect (if not the literal wording) of the legislation. McCaughey stated that "[i]n so many words" the bill would make end-of-life counseling mandatory because "although it is presented in the bill as a Medicare service, when a doctor or a nurse approaches an elderly person who is in poor health, facing a decline in health, and raises these issues, it is not offering a service. It is pressuring them."

    New York Times: McCaughey "largely quot[ed]" Emanuel's "past writings out of context this summer"
    According to an August 24 New York Times article:

    Few people hold a more uncomfortable place at the health care debate's intersection between nuanced policy and cable-ready political rhetoric than President Obama's special health care adviser, Dr. Ezekiel J. Emanuel.

    Largely quoting his past writings out of context this summer, Betsy McCaughey, a former lieutenant governor of New York, labeled Dr. Emanuel a "deadly doctor" who believes health care should be "reserved for the nondisabled" -- a false assertion that Representative Michele Bachmann, Republican of Minnesota, repeated on the House floor.

    [...]

    Ms. McCaughey seemed to have evidence for her conclusion that "he explicitly defends discrimination against older patients" in a recent New York Post opinion article. She quoted from a paper he co-wrote for Lancet in January: "Even if 25-year-olds receive priority over 65-year-olds, everyone who is 65 years now was previously 25."

    But she did not report that the paper was addressing the allocation of "very scarce resources" like kidneys or vaccines, not the system in general.

    Dr. Emanuel's argument -- that young adults should take priority in vying for limited health resources because they will get more years of life from them -- is a fairly mainstream if unpleasant approach to a problem with only bad choices, ethicists and doctors of varying persuasions say.

    "These kinds of dilemmas go on every day in clinical practice," said Dr. Scott Gottlieb, a physician and scholar at the American Enterprise Ins ute, a conservative research group. "There's a very big leap to say his contemplations about how doctors contend with these issues extends to saying he believes government should take on these issues."

    Dr. Gottlieb opposes the administration's proposals, calling them too prescriptive, too expensive, and too open to eventual increased rationing.

    In a brief interview, Ms. McCaughey said that either way, because of its Medicare cost cuts, "the president's proposal will force hospitals to operate with scarce resources."

    The administration disputes that assertion.

    Ms. McCaughey, Ms. Palin and others have based accusations that Dr. Emanuel would direct treatment away from the disabled on a 1996 paper he wrote for the Hastings Center bioethics ins ute.

    In it, Dr. Emanuel did not assert that "medical care should be reserved for the nondisabled," as the critics have said.

    The paper laid out what he called a growing consensus among competing political philosophies about how a society should allocate health care services. In clinical terms, he said that consensus held that those who "are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens" should not be guaranteed the same level of treatment as others.

    He cited as an example, "not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia."

    Dr. Emanuel said he was simply describing a consensus held by others, not himself.

    Contact:
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    Wall Street Journal
    WSJ Editorial Staff: [email protected]
    WSJ Feedback: [email protected]




    When you stop being a hypocrite and denounce complete mistruths then maybe you may gain some credibility.

  3. #3
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    When you stop being a hypocrite and denounce complete mistruths then maybe you may gain some credibility.

    If my company suddently got 50 million new customers and we didn't add a ton of people to our payrolls, we'd have to offer limited and/or lower quality services. This is just common sense.


    But, you're en led to your opinion.

  4. #4
    United Autodidact Society Shastafarian's Avatar
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    Oooooooo I like uneven analogies too! Plus the seniors. I mean, who cares if that statement about medicare is true or not. We can live without 'em.

  5. #5
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Oooooooo I like uneven analogies too! Plus the seniors. I mean, who cares if that statement about medicare is true or not. We can live without 'em.

    That was brilliant.


    As for seniors --> http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133917

  6. #6
    United Autodidact Society Shastafarian's Avatar
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    That was brilliant.
    Oh, do you work in the medical field or a similar field when it relates to structure of employment and services rendered?

  7. #7
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Oh, do you work in the medical field or a similar field when it relates to structure of employment and services rendered?

    No, but I have family members that are doctors. But, that's really besides the point.

  8. #8
    United Autodidact Society Shastafarian's Avatar
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    If my company suddently got 50 million new customers and we didn't add a ton of people to our payrolls, we'd have to offer limited and/or lower quality services. This is just common sense.


    But, you're en led to your opinion.
    No, but I have family members that are doctors. But, that's really besides the point.
    It's MY point.

  9. #9
    The D.R.A. Drachen's Avatar
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    I absolutely am critical of these two networks for not airing this ad if the only reason is for it being "partisan." Now if it was because they thought they would lose other sponsorship by airing it, I would have no problem with it.

  10. #10
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Pros of Obamacare:

    1. Insure 50 million who are currently uninsured
    2. ?

    Can people name some more? Don't even say lower cost because the CBO has already indicated it will cost a fortune.


    Better quality? Based on what?


    Anyone?

  11. #11
    United Autodidact Society Shastafarian's Avatar
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    those 50 million. They'll probably be ok.

  12. #12
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    those 50 million. They'll probably be ok.

    I listed that as a pro.

  13. #13
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    those 50 million. They'll probably be ok.
    Don't tell Darrin but they already receive healthcare now..

  14. #14
    United Autodidact Society Shastafarian's Avatar
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    I listed that as a pro.
    Yes I know. But clearly them getting healthcare wouldn't be enough to sway your vote. So 'em I say.

  15. #15
    this isn't long enough polysylab1k's Avatar
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    Oooooooo I like uneven analogies too! Plus the seniors. I mean, who cares if that statement about medicare is true or not. We can live without 'em.
    I wish you'd insist till you become a senior.

  16. #16
    Veteran ratm1221's Avatar
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    Don't tell Darrin but they already receive healthcare now..
    Keep the facts to a minimum please. Lets keeping sticking to "there won't be enough doctors to help everyone, look at England and Canada!"

  17. #17
    this isn't long enough polysylab1k's Avatar
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    Foxnews has played these ad multiple times on air anyways, regardless of the possible accusation of 'partisan'. The fair&balanced foxnews is frankly the only stream I trust and respect, ABC and NBC.

  18. #18
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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    Yes I know. But clearly them getting healthcare wouldn't be enough to sway your vote. So 'em I say.
    The Dems control BOTH houses and the Presidency; if they want to cover those 50 million people, they ought to do it.

    THEY are putting that goal in jeopardy by not making it THE goal.

    A "Public Option" is THE goal; isn't that obvious,now? - not covering the uninsured.

    Demanding the public option is WHAT is fomenting all of the negative reaction from voters around the country. Drop that, or vastly restructure it, without the Draconian mandates (the structure of the "marketplace" - a 5 year phase out of current plans ("Sure you can keep your current plan for 5 years")

    The Dems could pass "Universal Coverage" - and get some Republicans on board, but that's not what they REALLY want. They want a path to Single Payor, and they know that if we get to Universal Coverage WITHOUT that framework in place, or being placed on that path, they will never have the stick to beat opponents of Single Payor over the head with:

    "50 MILION UNINSURED, 50 MILLION UNINSURED!!!!!!"

    Is a big stick; wouldn't want to "Waste It", would we?

  19. #19
    this isn't long enough polysylab1k's Avatar
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    Keep the facts to a minimum please. Lets keeping sticking to "there won't be enough doctors to help everyone, look at England and Canada!"
    I have to concede that it really sucks wet monkey balls for the world's greatest country to have 47m uninsured people in border, but honestly, it's even more ruthless to leave the patients grieving in queue and announce their deaths ultimately, which is commonly happening in England and Canada.

    The government does foot the medical bills in England and Canada, but you have to wait a a long time before the doctors toss a glimpse towards you and probably when you gets your turn to get checked, your illness will have already turned inoperable and incurable. At least in America, most of the 300 million citizens are insured and the affordable treatments are accessible to them at first hand when they get sick, despite the rumored irresponsibility of doctors and hospitals.

  20. #20
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    WSJ Feedback: [email protected]
    When you stop being a hypocrite and denounce complete mistruths then maybe you may gain some credibility.
    Ok. You can get started on that bogus 50 million figure.

  21. #21
    They hate us - but they want to be us!
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    Ok. You can get started on that bogus 50 million figure.
    Yeah - you can go to the Census Bureau information and see the breakdown and that number is grossly misleading. When all is said and done, it's actually about 10 million people who should have healthcare and can't get it.

    So - the dems want to blow up the entire healthcare industry for a FRACTION of the population. How about we just work on getting that 10 million covered and then see how things stand.

  22. #22
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Well, anyone with half a brain knows the main stream media has a strong liberal bias.

  23. #23
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    From its glass house, Fox News attacks ABC, NBC for refusing to run anti-health reform ad
    http://mediamatters.org/items/200908280012

    A FoxNews.com article reported that the "refusal by ABC and NBC to run a national ad critical of President Obama's health care reform plan is raising questions from the group behind the spot -- particularly in light of ABC's health care special aired in prime time last June and hosted at the White House." Fox News, however, previously refused to air ads critical of the Bush administration, to which it had "unprecedented access."
    Fox News: Ad refusal is "raising questions"
    Article quotes Morris on ABC's "chutzpah." Fox News contributor Morris also said of ABC's refusal to air the ad: "It's the ultimate act of chutzpah because ABC is the network that turned itself over completely to Obama for a daylong propaganda fest about health care reform." From the August 27 FoxNews.com article:

    The refusal by ABC and NBC to run a national ad critical of President Obama's health care reform plan is raising questions from the group behind the spot -- particularly in light of ABC's health care special aired in prime time last June and hosted at the White House.

    [...]

    Morris, a FOX News political analyst and the League of American Voters' chief strategist, conceptualized the advertisement and said its purpose was to "refocus" the debate on health care reform.

    "I feel the whole debate on health care reform needed to be refocused on the issue of Medicare," he told FOXNews.com. "Most of the debate had been on issues of socialized medicine and cost. I felt that the impact of the legislation in cutting the Medicare program and enforcing rationing needed to be addressed."

    Morris, a onetime advisor to former President Bill Clinton, said he was particularly troubled by ABC's decision not to air the spot.

    "It's the ultimate act of chutzpah because ABC is the network that turned itself over completely to Obama for a daylong propaganda fest about health care reform," he said. "For them to be pious and say they will not accept advertising on health care shuts their viewers out from any possible understanding of both sides of this issue." [FoxNews.com, 8/27/09]

    Fox News refused to air anti-Bush ads, boasted of White House access
    Ads criticizing torture, Alito were refused. As Media Matters for America noted, Fox News previously refused to air an ad produced by the Center for Cons utional Rights (CCR) that criticized the Bush administration for "destroying the Cons ution" through the use of renditions, torture, and other tactics. In an email provided to Media Matters by CCR, Fox News account executive Erin Kelly told the center's e-communications manager that Fox would not run the ad, but said that "[i]f you have do entation that it [the Cons ution] is indeed being destroyed, we can look at that." Additionally, in 2005, Fox News refused to run an ad critical of Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito, who then-President Bush had nominated to succeed retiring Justice Sandra Day O'Connor.

    Fox News boasted of its "unprecedented access" to Bush White House. Morris is just the latest Fox News personality to attack ABC for its June 24 exclusive prime-time special, "Questions for the President: Prescription for America. During the Bush years, however, Fox News made much of its "unprecedented access" to the White House, using that access to ask softball questions of Bush administration officials and run specials about the administration.

    For instance:

    During an exclusive interview with Bush on the June 8, 2005, edition of Fox News' Your World, host Neil Cavuto asked Bush questions such as: "Almost any objective read tells you that we're still doing very, very well. ... Do you think you get a bum rap in the media on the economy?" and "Do you ever get mad at your fellow Republicans?" As Media Matters noted at the time, Media Research Center president L. Brent Bozell III defended Cavuto from criticism that he had lobbed "softball" questions to Bush, asserting that Bush was asked "some challenging questions" and that the interview "was no puff job."
    Similarly, Cavuto's July 31, 2006, exclusive interview with Bush also featured softballs, false assertions, and a failure on Cavuto's part to ask any substantive questions regarding the Iraq war, as Media Matters do ented. In addition, Cavuto rarely challenged Bush's answers, including Bush's claim that "I think about Al Qaeda every day" -- even though he previously asserted that he was "not that concerned" about Osama bin Laden. After the interview, Cavuto repeatedly praised the president and his ability to withstand the Miami humidity, telling Fox News' Brian Wilson that Bush "was dry as toast" and "looked great."
    On February 16, 2006, then-Vice President Cheney granted his first interview after accidentally shooting a hunting companion in the face to Fox News' Brit Hume. As Media Matters noted, in airing the interview, Fox omitted Cheney's comments about drinking a beer the day he shot his hunting companion, Harry Whittington, and even excluded the comments from what it said was the "full interview" posted on its website. Yet, on the February 19, 2006, edition of Fox Broadcasting Co.'s Fox News Sunday, Hume gave himself high marks for the manner in which he had conducted the interview, saying, "The last thing in the world that Cheney needed on that day was a soft interview," and "my job was to simply sit there and walk through this episode with him and ask all the relevant questions."
    Moreover, Hume neglected to ask a number of "relevant" questions, as Media Matters noted. For example, Cheney appeared to accept responsibility for shooting Whittington ("Well, ultimately, I'm the guy who pulled the trigger"), but Hume failed to ask Cheney why he allowed surrogates -- without challenging or correcting them -- to publicly blame Whittington for the accident.

    On September 30, 2006, Fox aired a special on then-Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, led "Why He Fights," which promised to "examine why President Bush stands behind him and what drives the 73-year-old Rumsfeld to soldier on." In a "Reporter's Notebook" entry on the do entary, Bret Baier, who interviewed Rumsfeld, wrote: "[F]or me, Rumsfeld continues to be one of the most fascinating figures in President Bush's war cabinet." He continued: "At 74 years old, he is a self-made millionaire many times over. He once served as the nation's youngest defense secretary --- now he's the oldest. So what keeps him going? What makes him continue to fight?"
    Baier further described the special as a "series of one-on-one interviews with Rumsfeld that took place over the course of several months," adding: "I traveled with Rumsfeld to Iraq numerous times, spoke with him at the Pentagon, and even rode along with him as he traveled to and from the White House."

    On the October 16, 17, and 18, 2006, editions of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor, host Bill O'Reilly aired portions of his October 16 interview with Bush, which consisted of such "tough questions" as whether then-Sen. Hillary Clinton is "soft on terrorism," whether "the anti-Bush press" is responsible for popular opposition to the war, and whether Bush was aware that critics "are trying to destroy you." O'Reilly also asked Bush: "[Y]ou work hard, right?"
    In his introduction to the October 16 interview segment, O'Reilly stated that "[b]ecause every presidential interview is finite," he would concentrate on "what is happening now." Absent from the interview, O'Reilly stated, would be any questions that "look back," because, "[w]hat good does it do to rehash WMDs?" According to the onscreen text, "Looking back doesn't do anybody any good."

    On October 13, 2007, Fox News aired " Cheney: No Retreat," which was described as "an exclusive interview" with Cheney and teased as "a rare glimpse into the life of the vice president."
    On February 2 and February 3, 2008, Fox News aired a do entary led, "George W. Bush: Fighting to the Finish," after, as Fox itself described, Baier "was granted unprecedented access by George W. Bush as the president begins the final year of his extraordinarily consequential tenure


    but, but,but Fox news is fair and balanced..they are the only news source that i watch ..yada.. and you dead enders claim libs are lemmings..

    why do i think that you righties were all in agreement with fox not running that ads..seems there's lots of hyperbole in the ad they wouldn't run..but now they hyperboles about healthcare are d by fox news...

  24. #24
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    but, but,but Fox news is fair and balanced..they are the only news source that i watch ..yada.. and you dead enders claim libs are lemmings..

    why do i think that you righties were all in agreement with fox not running that ads..seems there's lots of hyperbole in the ad they wouldn't run..but now they hyperboles about healthcare are d by fox news...

    Is Fox refusing to air the AARP ad?

  25. #25
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    Is Fox refusing to air the AARP ad?
    I don't know darrins. are they?

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