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  1. #26
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Nobody in here is going to say anything more intelligent on the interplay between state involvement in the economy and its effect on personal liberty than Friedrich Hayek did in The Road to Serfdom, insofar as he eventually got the Nobel Prize, so just read that book and quote him.
    I looked it up, and I'm tempted to go buy and read it myself.

    Powell's Search: The Road to Serfdom

    Thanx.

  2. #27
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    What a stupid ing thread.

  3. #28
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    You guys never miss a chance to feel oppressed, do you?

  4. #29
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    One word:

    No.

  5. #30
    NBAChamp..to be Continued SpurNation's Avatar
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    Would you agree with this statement?

    But like all slavery, like all domination, like all exploitation, it came to the point that the people got tired of it. And that seems to be the long story of history. There seems to be a throbbing desire, there seems to be an internal desire for freedom within the soul of every man. And it’s there—it might not break forth in the beginning, but eventually it breaks out, for men realize that freedom is something basic. To rob a man of his freedom is to take from him the essential basis of his manhood. To take from him his freedom is to rob him of something of God’s image. To paraphrase the words of Shakespeare’s Ot o:
    Who steals my purse steals trash; ‘t is something, nothing;
    ‘T was mine, ‘t is his, has been slave to thousands;
    But he that filches from me my freedom
    Robs me of that which not enriches him
    But makes me poor indeed.
    I wish to be free to to make my own decisions regarding all decisions in my life. That is being (year by year, generation by generation) taken away by a government who would want to controll our fiscal earnings in order to enslave us to the servitude of their own agendas.


  6. #31
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    You're not as much a slave as antebellum blacks in America.

    Not even close.

    Trying to paint yourself as such makes it easy to dismiss any point you might have out of hand.

    Frankly, it's insulting and embarrassing at the same time.

  7. #32
    NBAChamp..to be Continued SpurNation's Avatar
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    You're not as much a slave as antebellum blacks in America.

    Not even close.

    Trying to paint yourself as such makes it easy to dismiss any point you might have out of hand.

    Frankly, it's insulting and embarrassing at the same time.
    Some of my ancestors were as much enslaved. And color of skin wasn't the issue.

  8. #33
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Some of my ancestors were as much enslaved. And color of skin wasn't the issue.
    You weren't talking about your ancestors. You were talking about us today.

  9. #34
    NBAChamp..to be Continued SpurNation's Avatar
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    There are governments far worse than the US at taking things away, in fact most of it has been given to you rather than taken. This entire country (with all resources) belonged to Native Americans. If you want complete freedom from the income tax you can move to Monaco, that is a decision you're free to make.
    Point is this is becomng a government that is taking more and more away and reducing the freedoms which we have to give according to what we as individuals would give if not enslaved by the fiscal demands made by the federal government.

    And it's not income tax I'm opposed to. It's the government's seemingly unbridled ability to allocate that money.
    Last edited by SpurNation; 08-28-2009 at 02:45 PM.

  10. #35
    NBAChamp..to be Continued SpurNation's Avatar
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    You weren't talking about your ancestors. You were talking about us today.
    I know Chump. I know it's brutal and to many unexeptable to use that part in our history as a support to a platform. But many political activists (especially liberal activists) have been doing that for years.

    Look...I give what I can to help people. If I can do it...I will help anybody in need. My wife often critisizes me for being overly helpful especially when it means I'm taking away from our needs to do so.

    But I feel that we are rewarded in the future for our giving of today. And it's come back to haunt me sometimes and sometimes it comes back with gra ude I never expected.

    But if the government keeps pursuing mandated procedures which we are to abide...then the freedom of giving to whom we choose to help will quickly deminish to who someone else dictates where we give.

    What's wrong in allowing the people of this nation to give to who or what they deem as appropriate to give? And if the government through mandated regulation keeps taking more and more away...we have less to offer to those we want to help.

  11. #36
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    You aren't as much a slave as antebellum blacks in America.

    You are free to publicly about your current situation, which is in itself more than they could do. Your analogy failed as soon as you made it because you could make it.

  12. #37
    NBAChamp..to be Continued SpurNation's Avatar
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    You aren't as much a slave as antebellum blacks in America.

    You are free to publicly about your current situation, which is in itself more than they could do. Your analogy failed as soon as you made it because you could make it.
    That is the point. We are slowly becoming a nation that will not have the ability to change unjust government procedures no matter how much we because government is gaining too much controll.

    Yes...I am free now to do so...and so are you...and so is the rest of the nation...but being free to " " about something doesn't mean our freedoms can't be taken away. I'm sure the proponents of slavery of the time thought that all the people against it were nothing but " ers" too.

  13. #38
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    No, the point is you aren't as much a slave as antebellum blacks in America.

    You asked the question and it has been answered.

  14. #39
    Veteran Mel_13's Avatar
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    That is the point. We are slowly becoming a nation that will not have the ability to change unjust government procedures no matter how much we because government is gaining too much controll.

    Yes...I am free now to do so...and so are you...and so is the rest of the nation...but being free to " " about something doesn't mean our freedoms can't be taken away. I'm sure the proponents of slavery of the time thought that all the people against it were nothing but " ers" too.
    1. Read the question posed in the your thread le.

    2. Read the bolded portion of your post.

    3. You have answered the question posed in the negative.

  15. #40
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    you're supers ious?

  16. #41
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    . Yeah, that whole ing thing sort of works if you have a good argument.
    don't make fun. he said "things have come back to haunt me".

  17. #42
    Student of Liberty Galileo's Avatar
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    Black slaves had no legal remedy for their freedom.

    People today have many legal outlets to gain more freedom:

    1) voting

    2) freedom of press to make political opinions known & right to pe ion government

    3) right to serve on juries and grand juries = opportunity to oppose tyrannical laws

    4) right to run for public office or join political parties

    5) you can use the court system to fight the government

    6) state legislatures can pass amendments to Cons ution

    The sad fact is, a lot of people have been duped into our current condition.
    Last edited by Galileo; 08-28-2009 at 04:11 PM.

  18. #43
    NBAChamp..to be Continued SpurNation's Avatar
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    Answering questions? I'm sure Jews during Hitler's terror asked the same but nothing was done until millions were killed.

  19. #44
    "We'll do it this time" Bartleby's Avatar
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    The greatest threat to the freedom of Americans today is financial debt i.e. it's the banks who own your ass, not the state.
    Last edited by Bartleby; 08-28-2009 at 05:09 PM.

  20. #45
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    hitler! finally someone said it!

  21. #46
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Answering questions? I'm sure Jews during Hitler's terror asked the same but nothing was done until millions were killed.
    I had to figure Godwin wouldn't be far behind. Kudos for holding out this long, I guess.

  22. #47
    NBAChamp..to be Continued SpurNation's Avatar
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    Liberals!!!

    Don't use your somewhat viable arguement regarding Bush's policies to become that of which you destained during his administration as a defense for Obama.

    Both were/are looking to controll the American public through manipulation of government.

  23. #48
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    I'm not talking about either president. I'm talking about your preposterous premise.

  24. #49
    CDs Nuts. resistanze's Avatar
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    But the principle of the civil war was to ensure that all people regardless of race have pursuant to themselves the ability to live free without physical bondage.
    And WWII was fought to prevent German imports of BMWs into America.

    How ing dumb can you be?

  25. #50
    Where Everything Happens The Franchise's Avatar
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    what a stupid ing thread.
    +2

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