Most Athletic Center of All Time? David Robinson or Dwight Howard

[whottt]

Remember that DROB, as great as he was, broke down physically early. Chamberlin NEVER did. He was playing professional volleyball in his 40s.

I'm pretty sure knee injuries were what forced Wilt to give up his NBA career, at a younger age than Drob retired. And volleyball? Wasn't Greg Ostertag a volleyball player too?

[whottt]

Lol what?!?!?!?!

Wow.

His arms are extremely cut, not extremely massive.

You are assuming he spent time lifting weights building up his arms...I haven't seen any proof he did. I'm not saying he didn't...but you are definitely assuming he did.

Gymnasts don't automatically build up their arms by lifting weights, they don't have too...again I'm not saying they don't, but chinups and rings and pommel horse and hand stands will give you a good developed set of arms. And IMO, much stronger arms than lifting weights will give you as well.

Next body builder I see do a human flag will be the first.

[Chieflion]

I'm pretty sure knee injuries were what forced Wilt to give up his NBA career, at a younger age than Drob retired. And volleyball? Wasn't Greg Ostertag a volleyball player too?

It wasn't. It was Chamberlain trying to go to the ABA and the Lakers sued him for it.

[JamStone]

You're out of your mind if you claim David Robinson's arms weren't extremely massive. They were absolutely defined/cut, but they were also huge. If they weren't extremely massive and they were just really cut, can we assume that Wilt was stronger in the upper body than David Robinson? You're digging yourself a hole by suggesting David Robinson did not have extremely massive arms. He absolutely did.

And, why would you talk about how gymnasts not building up there arms by lifting weights when you just specifically stated that David Robinson wasn't necessarily a gymnast, but merely "qualified" for the Naval gymnast team? You're counter-arguing your own arguments.

David Robinson lifted weights. I don't think that's news to anyone.

There may have been weights around during Wilt's time, but pro basketball players didn't lift weights back then. Now, pretty much every pro basketball player lifts weights. Again, it's something you have to consider, the era, the workout regimen of the time. For basketball players, it didn't involve lifting weights.

[whottt]

You're out of your mind if you claim David Robinson's arms weren't extremely massive.

His arms aren't extremely massive all things considered.

They were absolutely defined/cut, but they were also huge. If they weren't extremely massive and they were just really cut, can we assume that Wilt was stronger in the upper body than David Robinson?

There's plenty of room to assume Wilt was strong on the upperbody, the dude was a shotputter. They don't ask guys with weak upperbodies to do shotput.

Never said he wasn't....however the Admiral could walk the lenght of a basketball cout on his hands, that takes insane strength, and just using your arms to balance yourself will cut them to ribbons.

You're digging yourself a hole by suggesting David Robinson did not have extremely massive arms. He absolutely did.

I'm really not...because the handstand argument is a powerful one. And David look stronger in his upperbody, and Wilt, especially as he got older appears to have the stronger trunk.

And, why would you talk about how gymnasts not building up there arms by lifting weights when you just specifically stated that David Robinson wasn't necessarily a gymnast, but merely "qualified" for the Naval gymnast team? You're counter-arguing your own arguments.

Because he obviously could do gymnastic feats. Like walking the length of a freakin' basketball court on his hands.

David Robinson lifted weights. I don't think that's news to anyone.

You are just assuming that....you're also assuming that's why his arms look so good.

There may have been weights around during Wilt's time, but pro basketball players didn't lift weights back then. Now, pretty much every pro basketball player lifts weights. Again, it's something you have to consider, the era, the workout regimen of the time. For basketball players, it didn't involve lifting weights.

Robinson still looks stonger to me, naturally stronger. Wilt does look meaner though...then again everybody looks meaner than David.

[whottt]

Shoogar, you and Jam feel free to meet up with me, we can jump, we can run, try to dunk, see who can throw a shotput the furthest..

I guarantee you we will all come closer to Wilt in those areas than we will to David in walking the length of a basketball court on our hands.

Thanks for playing.

[whottt]

It wasn't. It was Chamberlain trying to go to the ABA and the Lakers sued him for it.

Yeah, that explains his scoring average dropping by about 25ppg.

[JamStone]

I would really like to know if anyone on earth shares the opinion that David Robinson didn't really have extremely massive arms. I think you'd be in an extreme minority who share that belief.

There are plenty of pro athletes that have the strength to walk on their hands the length of the basketball court but don't have the balance. It's a testament as much to his sense of balance as it does his upper body strength. Of course it requires strong arms, but making some sort of suggestion that he's unique in that regard for his strength is misplaced, in my opinion. He's unique in that regard because of his sense of balance. You and I would probably agree that Shaq in his earlier NBA days (when he was thinner) was still probably about as strong in the upper body as David Robinson if not perhaps stronger. If he couldn't walk the length of the court on his hands, it wouldn't be for lack of strength, but lack of balance.

Being able to do gymnastic feats does not mean David trained as a gymnast trained. That's an assumption on your part.

I assume David Robinson lifted weights. I'm pretty sure someone could find evidence for it, an interview or something where he talks about lifting. But, I'm pretty sure it's a safe assumption. I'll ask you this now. Are you suggesting David Robinson did not lift weights? Is that what you're implying?

[JamStone]

Shoogar, you and Jam feel free to meet up with me, we can jump, we can run, try to dunk, see who can throw a shotput the furthest..

I guarantee you we will all come closer to Wilt in those areas than we will to David in walking the length of a basketball court on our hands.

Thanks for playing.

I 12 year old girl gymnast has a better chance of walking the length of a basketball court on her hands than an NFL lineman.

12 year old gymnasts must be stronger than NFL lineman.

[whottt]

I 12 year old girl gymnast has a better chance of walking the length of a basketball court on her hands than an NFL lineman.

12 year old gymnasts must be stronger than NFL lineman.

A 12 year old girl who is the same size as an NFL lineman won't be able to walk further.

Drob and Wilt are pretty much the same size. I've met Shoogar, I'm not really sure how big he is but we're both definitely bigger than 12 year old girls and smaller than NFL lineman. And that 12 year old girl might be a better athlete than that lineman anyway, if she can walk the lenght of a court on her hands I'm inclined to say she would be. She can probably do 30 things he can't do, he can probably do 2 or 3 that she can't.

And finally, I'd argue that that 12 year old girl gymnast can walk futher on her hands than a lineman anyway, women don't generally have much upperbody strength at all, it's usually in their legs, especially gymnasts.

[Chieflion]

Yeah, that explains his scoring average dropping by about 25ppg.

You also forgot to mention that he had set the record for FG% that year of 72.7% from the field, a record yet to be broken and still was the top rebounder of the league that year. He left the NBA after the 1972-1973 season because he wanted to join the San Diego Conquistadors of the ABA as player-coach.

[whottt]

I would really like to know if anyone on earth shares the opinion that David Robinson didn't really have extremely massive arms. I think you'd be in an extreme minority who share that belief.

There are plenty of pro athletes that have the strength to walk on their hands the length of the basketball court but don't have the balance. It's a testament as much to his sense of balance as it does his upper body strength. Of course it requires strong arms, but making some sort of suggestion that he's unique in that regard for his strength is misplaced, in my opinion. He's unique in that regard because of his sense of balance. You and I would probably agree that Shaq in his earlier NBA days (when he was thinner) was still probably about as strong in the upper body as David Robinson if not perhaps stronger. If he couldn't walk the length of the court on his hands, it wouldn't be for lack of strength, but lack of balance.

Being able to do gymnastic feats does not mean David trained as a gymnast trained. That's an assumption on your part.

I assume David Robinson lifted weights. I'm pretty sure someone could find evidence for it, an interview or something where he talks about lifting. But, I'm pretty sure it's a safe assumption. I'll ask you this now. Are you suggesting David Robinson did not lift weights? Is that what you're implying?

Uh, balance is definitely a part of atheleticism.

If you just want to break this down to running, jumping and lifting, we get to look at all the available visual evidence, it's going to be fairly easy to conclude the Admiral as Wilt's equal or better in 2 of the 3 categories(upperbody, and speed).

[JamStone]

Wilt in his prime played somewhere around 285-300 lbs. David Robinson in his prime played around 250-260 lbs. There's enough of a difference to give good reason to believe Wilt's mass would give him an advantage in strength.

Again, my point about walking on hands remains the same, it's just as much about balance as it is about strength. There are people, athletes, who have the upper body strength and arm strength to walk on their hands the length of the court but cannot do it because of a balance issue, not a strength issue. You are applying his ability to walk on his hands as an argument to solely explain his strength. I still think it's misplaced if you use it only to suggest strength.

This also goes back to what I was talking about before about "natural" athletic ability. Walking on your hands isn't something people just do, wake up one morning, and just start walking on their hands. People practice it before being adept at doing it. You give an athlete enough time to practice walking on their hands, most good athletes would be able to do it. There is absolutely a measure of strength in walking on your hands. But, it's also about practice and balance.

[JamStone]

Uh, balance is definitely a part of atheleticism.

If you just want to break this down to running, jumping and lifting, we get to look at all the available visual evidene, it's going to be fairly easy to conclude the Admiral as Wilt's equal or better in 2 of the 3 categories(upperbody, and speed).

Completely agree that balance is part of athleticism. You were using his ability to walk on his hands to basically explain how strong he was. We cannot conclude what you just contended with certainty, particularly the upperbody strength category. That would be a guess. I wouldn't say with certainty at all that David Robinson was "as" strong or "stronger" than Wilt in the upper body. I mean, David Robinson didn't even have extremely massive arms after all.

[whottt]

Wilt in his prime played somewhere around 285-300 lbs. David Robinson in his prime played around 250-260 lbs. There's enough of a difference to give good reason to believe Wilt's mass would give him an advantage in strength.

Absolutely not conclusive at all....

Again, my point about walking on hands remains the same, it's just as much about balance as it is about strength. There are people, athletes, who have the upper body strength and arm strength to walk on their hands the length of the court but cannot do it because of a balance issue, not a strength issue. You are applying his ability to walk on his hands as an argument to solely explain his strength. I still think it's misplaced if you use it only to suggest strength.

This also goes back to what I was talking about before about "natural" athletic ability. Walking on your hands isn't something people just do, wake up one morning, and just start walking on their hands. People practice it before being adept at doing it. You give an athlete enough time to practice walking on their hands, most good athletes would be able to do it. There is absolutely a measure of strength in walking on your hands. But, it's also about practice and balance.

I've known people that could walk on their hands after trying it a couple of times. I'm not one of them, and neither are you either based on your coments and I bet most people in this thread aren't either, that doesn't mean it's not a feat of athleticism. Gymnastics takes all around athletecism...

As evidenced by the fact that David Robinson is unquestionbly a fantastic athlete, and natural gymnast.

[JamStone]

Absolutely not conclusive at all....

As conclusive as suggesting you can look at old videos and each of their respective physiques and simply conclude Robinson is as strong or stronger than Wilt.

I've known people that could walk on their hands after trying it a couple of times. I'm not one of them, and neither are you either based on your coments and I bet most people in this thread aren't either, that doesn't mean it's not a feat of athletecism.

Never said or even suggested it wasn't a feat of athleticism. What I am suggesting is that if someone can walk on their hands the length of the basketball court, it doesn't necessarily mean that person is stronger than a person who cannot. And, it doesn't mean that person is more athletic than a person who cannot.

[whottt]

As conclusive as suggesting you can look at videos and conclude Robinson is as strong or stronger than Wilt.





Never said or even suggested it wasn't a feat of athleticism. What I am suggesting is that if someone can walk on their hands the length of the basketball court, it doesn't necessarily mean that person is stronger than a person who cannot. And, it doesn't mean that person is more athletic than a person who cannot.

I see what you are saying...

But if you give me a bunch of guys within 30lbs of each other that are the same height I guarantee you the ones that can walk the length of a basketball court on their hands more often than not will be stronger than the others that can't.


Advantage David.

[whottt]

Wilt in his prime played somewhere around 285-300 lbs. David Robinson in his prime played around 250-260 lbs. There's enough of a difference to give good reason to believe Wilt's mass would give him an advantage in strength.

Since pretty much the consensus is that Wilt didn't lift weights, there's no way you can prove he's stronger, he could just be fatter. Without weightlifting that is the obvious conclusion, especially as he gained that weight later in his career.

[whottt]

As conclusive as suggesting you can look at old videos

Video is more conclusive than folktales.

[whottt]

You also forgot to mention that he had set the record for FG% that year of 72.7% from the field, a record yet to be broken and still was the top rebounder of the league that year. He left the NBA after the 1972-1973 season because he wanted to join the San Diego Conquistadors of the ABA as player-coach.

Depends on who you listen to...some said Wilt's knees were gone(including one of his coaches), Wilt never admitted it, but he certainly didn't play much basketball after that.

In any case, David playd the same number of years and to an older age, and his scoring decline wasn't automatically due to breaking down either, but also Mr. Duncan joining the Spurs.

[Cry Havoc]

And finally, I'd argue that that 12 year old girl gymnast can walk futher on her hands than a lineman anyway, women don't generally have much upperbody strength at all, it's usually in their legs, especially gymnasts.

You are out of your MIND.

Gymnasts both male and female are incredibly strong. They have an absolutely insane amount of core strength and extremely well-developed upper bodies as well as their legs. I have a friend who is just a level 10 gymnast (on the fringe of elite), isn't even considered a "power" gymnast, and her arms are incredibly defined and look very strong.

Suggesting that a gymnast "doesn't have much strength" in ANY part of their body shows a complete lack of knowledge about gymnastics as a whole.

[whottt]

You are out of your MIND.

Gymnasts both male and female are incredibly strong. They have an absolutely insane amount of core strength and extremely well-developed upper bodies as well as their legs. I have a friend who is just a level 10 gymnast (on the fringe of elite), isn't even considered a "power" gymnast, and her arms are incredibly defined and look very strong.

Suggesting that a gymnast "doesn't have much strength" in ANY part of their body shows a complete lack of knowledge about gymnastics as a whole.

I said women generally don't have much upperbody strength, their strength is usually concentrated in their legs, espcially gymnasts.

I can see why you took it the way you did, but I didn't really say what you think I did.


Let me put it another way..

Female gymnasts definitely have more upperbody strength than the typical woman, as evidenced by the handstands they can do on the balance beam among other things, but they still don't have much upperbody strength compared to a typical man, and they are absolutely beyond all doubt stronger in their legs than their upperbody.

[elbamba]

Half of his blocks were goal tending in the wilt video.

[newacc]

There's this.



And the Big 8 isn't a high school division, but rather a major college conference (that merged with the SWC to form the Big 12). Again, showing your ignorance there.

And as for the 300 lbs remark that I made, there's this from his NBA.com bio:

I know the Big 8 wasn't a high school division. I said high school remembering one of whott's posts where he referenced high school.

And just because you don't have a verticle leap of 50 doesn't mean you can't jump. What I am saying is if you look at the video evidence, Wilt doesn't elevate as high or effortlessly as David. 50 inches my ass. Vince Carter who was the best dunker the NBA has ever seen couldn't even get up 50 inches on a vertical jump.

Wilt is big on himself and I'm sure he had no problems enhancing his reputation in any way, shape, or form.

As far as strength, I'm not so sure David was the stronger of the two. Wilt looked like he had a stronger torso/legs and as noted was notably heavier than David. I don't think David's arms are massive either. They were cut and definitely muscular, but I wouldn't classify them as massive.

[newacc]

All I know is that Wilt wouldn't have been put to sleep by Karl Malone.

You would have. Wilt would have. And probably just about anyone else. Getting knocked unconscious isn't about being a tough guy. You get caught with an elbow on the wrong place on your head and you're going down.