Respectfully disagree. Elliott was a much better offensive player than Bruce and a two time all star. Bruce was a better defender but not by much in my book. I do agree that Bowen is better than AJ and Moore. I still am not sure why Moore got his jersey retired. There are better spurs who have not been considered.
and if Bowen was on their team it would be different.500 + mostly hating responses on ESPN's article about Bruce retiring...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4442293
are celebrating...
Bruce was one of those guys that you loved on your team and hated on someone else's.
Bowen>Elliott?Give me a ing break.
If Im the Spurs I honor Bruce and give him a huge ceremony, but I dont retire his jersey. Bruce was a role player an important one but a roleplayer nontheless. There have to be some standards for retiring a players jersey, only franchise-type players and some all-stars should be up there. I agree that AJ and Moore were average, but the Spurs organization wasnt what it is today when those two players played here. We've become the 3rd winningnest franchise in terms of % and the 4th winningnest in terms of les. Celtics and Lakers dont retire just any teams jersey, think of it this way...will the Lakers retire Fisher's, Horry's, or Fox's? All very important to their sucess but no way will they get their numbers retired. The Spurs shouldnt retire Bowen's either.
And Bruce has played some of the best perimeter defense in NBA history, not to mention been a reliable 3 shooter, for just about all that time they've been making that climb.
Bruce has been named to 8 All NBA D Teams , including 6 First Teams, in a row.
That's very uncommon, especially for a purely perimeter player and something matched only by a handfull of players in NBA history.
Condsder this, Ben Wallace is arguably the defensive player of the decade(regardless of position), he made 6 All NBA D teams.
Ron Artest? He's made 4.
The only perimeter defenders with more than Bruce?
Miichael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Jason Kidd, and Gary Payton all have 9...
Scottie Pippen has 10.
And that's it...and everyone of those guys is going to have their jersey hanging...they'll also be in the HOF.
And unlike them, people weren't putting Bruce on that team because of his offensive numbers, or because they loved him, he was on there entirely for his defense and nothing else.
Bruce is deserving of having his jersey retired by the Spurs, especially because they won with defense and he's on the shortlist of the greatest perimeter defenders ever.
Ah a true 2003 and on Spurs fan.
Walk into the middle of 410.
Is that where you were for the $25 draft?
No Bowen, no les (outside of 99 of course). Can the same be said for Elliott?
MDM killed the Blazers, so he was key in 99.
Dont get me wrong, Bruce was an a great great defensive player but he was also put into the perfect system...a defensive system that has always been anchored by Timmy btw and in which Timmy has always been the best defensive player. Bruce didnt make the Spurs a defensive team, he simply came in and played a big role in our system. That 99' was arguably our best defensive team and there was no Bruce in it. He was a huge part of our defensive schemes but he wasnt what made it run people need to quit acting like thats the case, Timmy is what has made the Spurs be the best defensive team over the last 10 yrs.
As far as comparing him to other great defensive players who have had their jersey retired, Bowen was way too limited offensively to even be compared to those guys...basketball is played on two sides of the ball. Outside of his corner shot Bowen had no offensive game whatsoever, those players you brought up were some of the best in their respective pos ions on both sides of the ball.
Point is Bowen was a role player, an important one yes...but a role player nonetheless. With their run the last 10 yrs the Spurs have become one of the most historic franchises in the NBA, standards have to be held for retiring of jerseys. Boston and the Lakers dont retire a role player's jersey today I assure u that much. Fisher has been absolutely huge for the Lakers and has been a starter for four les this decade...thats more than Bowen. Do you think he even has a remote chance of getting his #2 retired? no.
What a moron, wouldnt a 2003+ Spurs fan be more inclined to want Bruce in? You know since he's been a part of every le team since than...and because theyll probably buy into the notion portrayed by Bowen-nuthuggers that Bruce is what made the Spurs such a great defensive unit. Completely ignoring the fact that the 99' team was probably the best defensive unit this Spurs team has had (no Bowen) and the fact that this team was a great defensive team even before Bruce.
Spurs were a great defensive team before Bruce, he held alot of stars to subpar numbers and Im not denying his contributions...but u cant just assume like this. The 99' Spurs had no great defensive stopper like Bowen and they still played stiffling defense. What made the Spurs such a great defensive unit was not solely Bruce, the system anchored by Timmy was what made this possible.
Here is why we won 3 les with Bruce.......
2003...the Kobe stopper...Kobe worked his a off to get his shots...Also the record 3's he hit in Game 2 of the 2nd Round.
2005 Bruce's block on Billups pull-up shot in Game 7 of the Finals in the waining mins....(many fans... forget this)
2007 Lebron plays like Crap in the Finals...and who defended him... resulting in a sweep? Don't forget the clutch 3 he hit vs Phx in the 2nd round of Game 5
....This gave the Spurs a mental edge...when he kicked Allen, racked Nash, and gave other players misery.....
NUFF Said....Retire his Jersey.....he earned it!!!!!
Worst starting small forward in the league.
The 99 Spurs shut down Kobe in 4 games.
I am good with retiring his jersey. Bruce was a great player. But he was not the best SF in Spurs history. There are several players that should have their jersey retired. How about Gilmore and Kenon?
Really? You're going to compare 1999 Kobe with 2003 Kobe? Really?
Its just a matter of time. Bruce epitomized Spurs basketball and was an outstanding civic personality. Some things are best savored after the passage of time.
They should name the DPOY after him! Like that will ever happen...
Bowen played exquisitely to type
Steve Aschburner
There is an old saying about Hollywood, career arcs and directors' casting demands that goes something like this: "Get me Denzel Washington! Get me a Denzel Washington-type! Get me a young Denzel Washington!" I'm reminded of that today, in the wake of Bruce Bowen's decision to retire after 12 proud (for him and his) and punishing (for opponents) NBA seasons.
Bowen, 38, won't make it into the Hall of Fame. He might have to wait to see his jersey number retired by the Spurs, the team he helped to championships in 2003, '05 and '07. But he exits the playing scene having achieved a distinction that only a special handful has managed in league history: Bruce Bowen leaves as an archetype.
There have been far fewer pro-basketball archetypes across the years than there have been Springfield inductees, Top 50 honorees, All-NBA selections or certainly All-Stars. Only those with special games, styles or bundles of skills need apply. Yet it can't be so rare that it veers into one-of-a-kind territory; there has to be some opportunity for others to follow down that particular path, prototype first, copies later. In other words, we're talking about a player who is unique -- but not too unique (sorry, vocabulary sticklers).
A simple way to gauge this is to stick "-type" onto the back end of a player's name and see if it means something to a typical NBA fan. Consider Larry Bird. Anytime a mul alented frontcourt player taller than 6-foot-8 comes along -- whether it's Detlef Schrempf, Tom Gugliotta, Christian Laettner or Dirk Nowitzki -- the phrase "Larry Bird-type" gets tossed out there by somebody. Usually, somebody is wrong. But we all know what he or she meant.
For a while in the 1980s and '90s, teams actively sought "Magic Johnson types," which was supposed to flood the league with really tall point guards who, charisma aside, could run their teams while peering over the top of the defense. That didn't work so well and it has less to do with Jalen Rose's results than the scarcity of Johnson's total game.
Going further back, coach Don Nelson made Paul Pressey the pioneer of "point forwards" when they were together in Milwaukee, but Scottie Pippen is the guy who can lay claim to "-type" status for how he and the Bulls' coaching staff refined the role. Sometimes it's shorthand -- saying a John Stockton-type or a Kevin Garnett-type conjures instant images. Sometimes it's, er, longhand -- UConn's 7-3 Hasheem Thabeet was talked of at draft time as a possible "Dikembe Mutombo-type" for what might be shot-blocking prowess but limited scoring skills. Sometimes it's negative -- a Byron Houston-type, besides being obscure, is a great low-post scorer in college who isn't big enough to play that way in the NBA. As opposed to, y'know, an Adrian Dantley-type.
Mostly, though, it's positive, which is the case with Bowen. Actually, Bowen's backstory could serve as a prototype as well, standing for all those players who went undrafted by an NBA team out of a school such as Cal State Fullerton, knocked around Europe and the CBA, got signed and waived a time or three, then finally found a home and a career at age 30 (Bowen landed in San Antonio as a free agent in 2001). But it is his front story -- as in, in other guys' faces, right up in their grills -- that we think of now.
What Bowen brought to the Spurs was every bit as essential during their run of les and Finals appearances, particularly to coach Gregg Popovich, as the playmaking and scoring of Tony Parker, the creativity of Manu Ginobili and the fundamental wonderfulness of Tim Duncan. He was the starch in their black-and-silver shorts, the guy assigned to thwart the other team's most potent scorer and the San Antonio player who invariably became the lightning rod of abuse and invective for fans of 29 other teams.
Sufferers such as Kobe Bryant, Ray Allen, Steve Nash and Nowitzki directed our attention to Bowen's feet (allegedly stepping underneath jump shooters), legs (kicking into his man) and knees (aimed at quadriceps and groins), but I'll always remember his hands flailing around and about the ball-handler like the NHL's Sean Avery pestering Martin Brodeur or, as Phil Jackson said, Edward Scissorhands.
Dirty? At times it sure looked that way -- and Bowen was too good an athlete to pass those moments off as being clumsy. But he was tough, consistent and almost Eddie Haskell-like in his placid expressions through the most physical encounters. And like a single spoonful of castor oil, a little went a long way -- the idea of being guarded by Bowen seemed as distasteful to many NBA stars as the actual experience of it, given his reputation for making an opponent work. That alone made Bowen and the Spurs more effective.
Bowen was named to the All-Defensive team in each of his first eight full NBA seasons. He was runner-up three times for Defensive Player of the Year, though he never won the award that's worthy of being named after him. That doesn't really matter -- what matters is that teams determined to chase a championship feel compelled these days to find a "Bruce Bowen-type" of guy: a clingy, even irritating defender who, for long stretches or whole nights, can negate a dangerous weapon from the other guys' arsenal. Now, from Raja Bell to James Posey, from Trevor Ariza to Jamario Moon, every alleged contender needs someone like Bowen if it expects to be taken seriously.
Some of the players are slightly different in size or build (Matt Barnes, Reggie Evans, Mickael Pietrus). Some, such as Tayshaun Prince, Shane Battier, Ron Artest, Ariza and DeShawn Stevenson, have other skills or attributes at their disposal, occasionally luring them away from Bowen-type duty. But then, Bowen himself never was just a defender, frequently stepping into the corners for a key three-point shot. What they all share at their best, though, is a defense-first focus that the NBA as a whole seems to welcome only in limited quan ies, no more than one or two per roster, while coaches, purists and home-team fans welcome them wherever they can find them. Because Bowen reminded us we should.
Summing up his career in his retirement session with reporters, Bowen said: "I hope my legacy would be as someone that never was satisfied with just being where they were."
His legacy goes well beyond that. From inside the offensive man's jersey and head, all the way to "-type" status.
He was our starting SF and was logging heavy minutes, of course he contributed noone is denying that...I just think its stupid to assume that w/o him we dont win les. As if he is what made our defensive system go or something, again in 99' the Spurs played some stingy ass defense. That's arguably the best defensive team we've had, and Elie or Elliott werent defensive stoppers like Bruce. Bowen was replaceable, a weaker defender could step in and offset that with better offense cause Bruce's offense was almost non-existant aside from his corner shot...sometimes even a liability. Btw Bowen has never been a Kobe stopper. Noone can stop Kobe, look at his numbers against us he always puts up like 35 ppg.
Give him a big ass ceremony but save the jersey retirements for guys like Duncan, Parker, and Manu.
Couldn't agree more FkLA.
Name me a defender the Spurs had that could've replaced Bowen.I just think its stupid to assume that w/o him we dont win les
Please, humor me with the gigantic fail you will stumble upon trying to stammer at answering this.
Retiring AJs set a precident where they have to retire Bowen's. Bowen's contributions >>>>>> AJ's
Bowen was a replaceable player, and Im not solely talking about someone that was already on the rosters during those yrs...theres also be the possibility of FA signings.
No doubt Bowen was one of a kind and the Spurs wouldve been hard-pressed to find another perimeter defender as good as him, but a good not great defender couldve come in and done just fine. Especially if that guy was a solid offensive player than the points would likely offset, cause Bowen's offense was non-existant and sometimes even a liability. Pop's system is what makes this work and Tim Duncan has always been the key to that defensive system not Bruce.
Look at it this way, Robinson was a great defender and we still managed to win les with fgts like Nazr Mohammed and Fabricio Oberto at Center after he retired...so u Bowen nuthuggers are saying we can lose one of the best defensive big men of all-time and win les but if we were to replace Bruce everything would fall apart and 03', 05', and 07' wouldnt have been possible?No, be ing real...the Spurs were a good defensive team before Bruce, were a good defensive team with Bruce, and will continue to be a good defensive team after Bruce.
The thing is, the Spurs have become much more recognized since AJ's days here...their run the last 10 yrs have turned them into one of the NBA's most historic franchises. Historic franchises dont just retire anybody's jersey, especially role players'. Spurs need to save that honor for Tim, Tony, and Manu.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote