This is a never ending story, we can continue this for days and days. Its going on for thousands of years. Its useless. I respect everyone in this world, so long that one is a good person. And I like to be threated the same. Just wanted to be called by what we are, Macedonians.
Anatolia is the turkish name, why would I demand that?
Anyway, the truth is that I care about self-determination, but I also care about the people here. I wouldn't have a problem with the name and maybe with the pseudo-history, if it wasn't for territorial claims.
That's true, so was Greece. Im talking about the REgion and ancient lands of MAcedonia which had a clear border and still has. Macedonians lived there and still live there, of course every nation is mixed, especially north macedonia is mostly serbian/slav, but not the south.
Do you know that there are no ethnical greeks? Do you know that your people consist of mostly Arvanites, Macedonians, Turks and Vlachs? To be Greek was created by Phil enes from England and Bavaria royal families who idolized the ancient enes and knowledge back then. when they came to Greece, they expected to see the same, instead they saw nothing, primitive balkan people, just like the rest. So they created a new nation, they wanted to make a new Greece, they learned the greeks that they have in fact ancestry from ancient enes. That is the way modern greece was created. by giving Arvanites, Macedonians, Turks and vlachs a idolised greek consciousness.
You are Macedonians (modern ones). That was your choice. You could have chosen to be Bulgarians or Serbians or whatever else. I respect your decision to self-identify as Macedonians.
But there was never a Macedonian country (until 1992?) in order to be divided. You are Slavic-speakers (Alexander spoke a completely different language). Don't try to convince the rest of the world that you are the grandchildren of Alexander the Great. That's hilarious. I admit that Greece is overreacting in this name issue though.
I thought it was Anadolu, Byzantium then (I know that was just a city, what did they call the whole empire)?
Oh, I agree it's a mess. The status of Macedonians as Greeks was apparently pretty nebulous in ancient times, but once Philip conquered most of them and his bisexual son temporarily spread Greek culture through a big chunk of the world with a Macedonian army, things got even more convoluted because everyone likes a winner.Anyway, the truth is that I care about self-determination, but I also care about the people here. I wouldn't have a problem with the name and maybe with the pseudo-history, if it wasn't for territorial claims.
Nice to hear that. But what kind of territorial claims? We dont want anything from you, we are not claiming anything. thats the thing, we just want to live in peace, tobe left alone after so many years of hard lives, we want to live quiet. We just want to be what we are, speak what we speak, and be called what we are called. We dont claim the Macedonian land which was taken by Greece in 1912 back. I dont get it, Greeks are so afraid about that we might have territorial claims or something. We dont! Greek politicians are pumping that in the heads of the common people to win votes in their absurd campaigns.
MAcedonia was one, greece took a part, so did Albania, so did Bulgaria, so did Serbia. So, yeah we lost it, but now what? We dont have any aspirations to want it back, we just want to live and be what we are. And now some greeks are telling us that we cant be named by our name? come on...thats what we have a problem with, thats crazy
Last edited by Bukefal; 09-08-2009 at 07:03 PM.
There was no country macedonia before 1912, it was occupied, so was greece, by the turks, but there was a region, which had Macedonian people living on the land called Macedonia, so when nations in europe emerged, it was completely normal for us macedonians to be a country where macedonians have lived for ages, thats how nations were formed in europe right? So that was MAcedonia and it has been like that for ages. After the ottomans it was meant for MAcedonia to be one country, that didnt happen, macedonians were stabbed in the back and isntead, Bulgaria, Serbian kingdom and Greeks signed a treaty to divide Macedonia in 3 parts, every part fell in other hands, but that meant all the macedonians that were living in those parts, were suddenly all part of a new country. They were opressed and were forced to be part of the new country, new citizens. Especially Greeks took it very far with that. All Macedonians were renamed, and tortured and the exodus started.
Alexander Spoke Macedonian, unfortunatelly, that language is not preserved today, some think the third language on the rosetta stone is macedonian, some think koine is in fact macedonian. Thats not known. But he did spoke Macedonian, different than enic, he was MAcedonian, different than enes. Do you remember Demosthenes? You should study him. The enes did not see Macedonians as enes, they did not see them as equals, MAcedonians were barbarians in their eyes, they were different nation, macedonians conquered enes.
Of course Alexander spread ene culture and ene language back then, since ene language back then was the lingua Franca, back then it was the same as english is now in the western world. Also ene culture can be compared to western culture now, the dominant culture. That doesnt mean he was an ene, he wasnt.
As for Macedonians being descendants of Alexander, thats delicate situation since no nation in balkans is 100 genic, thats impossible, but, Macedonians have always been here, many characteristics, culturally, historically have all been preserved, there is indeed people in todays macedonia who have links with ancient macedonians, you can find them in southern republic of Macedonia and also in AegeanMAcedonia, today north of Greece. Whereas for the modern Greeks, they have no links to the ancient macedonians, they even dont have hardly any links to ancient enes. Since today greeks are a created ethnicity, made up of mostly Arvanites, Macedonians and Turks.
I cant write anymore, its useless. I also dont want this forum to get ruined by this. Lets stick to the beautifull game of basketball. We all have different opinions, you cant make me think like you and i cant make you think like me. we should just leave it. I just want to be named what i am called. a Macedonian from Macedonia, is that so hard? It doesnt matter what alexander was, who is what, blonde black, older, newer or anything, time will reveal that itself, i just want to live now and be what i am. So that's my and my fellow macedonians question for you, we ask. Respect the fact that this is my name and please dont FYROM me, call me by my name, say Macedonia.
And lets toast on that we finally met eachother in a game, it was good, without problems (except for the fact that Greek TV was a bith childish and wiped the abbrevation) and it can also be different. I saw one television that In the capital of Macedonia, Skopje, Greek people from the embassy and others, and Macedonian people were watching the game together in a cafe, while eating meze and drinking Ouzo/Mastika and laughing all night!!
gia mas i say:
Opa!!!!
What kind of education system and history courses would Greeks have to have to not know anything about Macedonian and Greek history?
You are a god damn moron. The modern day Macedonians are not the same people from ancient Macedonia dumb ass.
Modern Greece is different. We know this. But "Macedonians" have zero claim to that flag and symbol. It is the same thing as America claiming they now have the right to claim all of history as theirs. US went into iraq so now they can claim they are the real Babylon and Mesopotamia. US culture is now 7,000 years old.
That is the same exact thing that "Macedonians" are doing by claiming that they are the Alexander culture. If you think otherwise then your schools has just as much propaganda as the Greek ones. Not saying Greek ones do not have it because they also do.
If you know all of this, then why are you arguing about it?
Fuking racist s .
The same way Jews have a country. To them it is whatever you take you consider yours. They have same mentality as the Jews and Americans "whatever we take belong to us".
I never have issue with you. You are nice guy. It is the Americans here that are racist. As you know they are RACIST against Greeks and make extremely racist comments here towards as.
hypocritical bas .
WTF is wrong with you?
Oh, I agree it's a mess. The status of Macedonians as Greeks was apparently pretty nebulous in ancient times, but once Philip conquered most of them and his bisexual son temporarily spread Greek culture through a big chunk of the world with a Macedonian army, things got even more convoluted because everyone likes a winner.
Are you this re ed? Ancient Greece was a group of city states. Like Sparta, like Athena, etc. They were like individual nations just in those places that are now called cities. Thebes, Athens and them were MYCENAEAN. They defeated the Minoans and they defeated Troy. Troy is in ing MODERN TURKEY.
Greek city states were formed together to fight the Persians.
Places like Crete and Santorini and Rhodes were a empire the Minoans. You are a ing DUMB ASS.
Alexander came and killed them and turned them into a empire and that empire was not just ing "modern day Greece" it was a HUGE empire that was all over. Your American "education" is so amazingly pathetic that you don't even know what the ancient Greece was.
And Alexander had BLOND HAIR and BLUE EYES you ing idiot.
My question for you is why not take out all your hate and anger because of this towards the British? They are the ones responsible for all of this. They caused it all. Just like they caused the same mess in Israel that was also all their doing. They are the bas s behind the "Balkanization" and the Palestine-Israel mess.
Modern Greek history is written by the British bas s. The controllers of the shipping lines of the Aegean. It is the same bas s that write your American history. Which is written by the English that control the banks. Any "modern Greek" that does not know history is the same exact as all these ing re ed brainwashed Americans here that have IQs of 80.
Americans hate facts. To Americans facts are "lies" and lies are "facts".
That has nothing to do with what anyone was talking about.
Right. They call it Turkey because they kicked the Greeks out. You got a problem with their calling it Turkey?
Very briefly, the rest of the time they were just fighting amongst themselves like a bunch of idiots.Greek city states were formed together to fight the Persians.
Your English really sucks here. Try again.Places like Crete and Santorini and Rhodes were a empire the Minoans. You are a ing DUMB ASS.
As i said, Philip did most of the conquest in Greece.Alexander came and killed them and turned them into a empireThat's exactly what I said.and that empire was not just ing "modern day Greece" it was a HUGE empire that was all over.I just told you. I was right.Your American "education" is so amazingly pathetic that you don't even know what the ancient Greece was.
When did I say he didn't? I just said he was into dudes.And Alexander had BLOND HAIR and BLUE EYES you ing idiot.
WTF does Alexander being have to do with this?
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