i have to disagree with this point. there are many skills one can acquire in high school. from carpentry to mechanics and computer programming. also, the fundamentals for calculus, science and engineering can all begin here. even in the liberal arts, this is the best place to begin to sharpen writing and speaking skills. a high school education is the bedrock for future success in a myriad of endeavors and disciplines.
I disagree. School provides none of those. The individual can learn any of those things or all of them through school or on his own. School provides a degree that states that they accomplished some minimal requirements.
And can you state that a HS degree is necessary for to be successful in most blue collar fields? With all honesty, if you went to 2 years of HS, followed by 2 years of trade school or on the job training, you would be far better off than having spent 4 years in HS, at least IMO.
The state has also added requirements making it more difficult to graduate: high stakes exams and additional credits.
The standards are not the problem. They're already incredibly low. To even suggest that HS graduates should not be able to pass these incredibly simple tests is beyond comprehension.
It's much deeper than that. If a student can't control themselves at school, how are they going to hold a job? Will they have the discipline, organizational skills, or even basicknowledge, like how to make change to get a job that doesn't involve picking produce? In the short-term it may be advantageous, especially if your really poor, but it is really short-sighted when you think about the future they could have with a good education.
We had this discussion the other day about the proposed closings of high schools in SAISD and others. If all these kids did not drop out then these schools might be fuller and more viable to stay open. If these communities want to keep these schools open, then they need to send their kids to school.
Of course the primary purpose of public education is to learn how to serve our corporate and state masters. Thanks for pointing that out.
this sounds like an argument for home schools. no to mention this appears to be a world in a vacuum scenario.
there are many skids who are far better off in schools, with access to tools and equipment they would never have in home, school organizations and extracurricular activities and even in some cases a sense of rule and order.
either you are advocating home schooling, which can be effective only for a certain demographic, or essentially stating that the drop out issue is overstated since high schools are inherently unecessary to begin with.
I think he was saying something in the middle: that not everyone is well suited to go to college. Basic education is of course a necessity, but beyond primary education it would make sense for there to be more vo-tech options for those who do not adapt well to a more academic environment.either you are advocating home schooling, which can be effective only for a certain demographic, or essentially stating that the drop out issue is overstated since high schools are inherently unecessary to begin with.
And I absolutely agree with Sam's point that self-education is the kernel of learning.
The necessity of universal education is vastly overstated. Any suitably diligent, motivated, persevering person can attain mastery of anything he wishes.
oh okay-more like a neo form of social darwinism. i get it.
Ok, more strawman ventriloquism. I get it.oh okay-more like a neo form of social darwinism. i get it.
to be politically correct....they wish.
Joking aside....your 100% correct.
Some might even argue that the public school system is part of just another "uncons utional" government program.
I wouldn't. Like rjv said, it's a state by state issue.
if you want to call an inference 'strawman ventiloquism' so be it, but that would smack of irony.
Naturally in this country we take something freely obtained by an individual and ins utionalize it, then Americanize it, such that it loses its essential character and serves the powerful at the expense of the individual.
lol, the standards are low.
ty neighborhoods & ty parenting leads to ty grades which leads to ty lives. It's pretty simple. If it doesn't start at home for the kid, he or she is pretty much ed unless they have a freak hidden away genetic hard work ethic source to draw upon.
The strong survive. That is Natural Law. Not only do the strong kids have to survive against their peers. Once they grow into strong adults, they then have to survive against the government stealing their earned wealth and giving it to the weak.
Last edited by BadMoodBob; 09-09-2009 at 11:16 AM.
Kinda like patriotism.
Thanks for posting the article.
I wanted to add that I dont know a single person who went through my same engineering college at ASU in four years. Its damn near impossible. I HEARD about a female who managed to do it in four years but never met her.
The implausibilty of your inference struck me. I know Sam a little, and am fairly certain he is not a social darwinist.
For that matter, neither am I.
The fact that he and I were talking about an educational scheme more suited to people's actual abilities, rather than some cookie-cutter, abstract equalitarianism, should indicate to you our concern to reform rather than abolish education.
An individual is "educated" if they possess a high diploma and an undergraduate degree. Those who do not are considered to be defective in our society and unworthy of respect.
do you think that the fundamental character of american pedagogy is one that pinions the individual? not, mind you, the current construct of education in texas, but rather the theoretical construct. because i think that the pragmatic character of "americanizing" a concept is not synonymous with individual enslavement.
I'm just saying that increasing requirements will naturally result in increasing the dropout rate, whether the requirements are good or not.
I'd ask for a link, but since your assertion there is 100% content-free bureaucratic boilerplate, there's no point.
That's funny, I live in a world where liberal activists are convinced that the only way the correct this is to come up with yet another government education reform plan to try, and yet more money to throw at the problem, preferrably with yet another all-expenses-paid trip to some small, geneous Scandinavian country to learn solutions that don't work here any better than the last 2,000 times they were tried.
Two possibilities:
1) Through Spurstalk.com, we are able to communicate across alternate universes, and you live in one where the government thinks the only solution is to address cultural factors without funding schools.
2) You are full of , as usual.
To obtain this level of education you must sit through at least 13 years of daily indoctrination in the glories of the state and correct workplace behavior (and if you are so fortunate you can proceed to a higher ins ution so you can manage those lesser to you in status, and of course serve those on higher rungs in our society) so that you will turn out into the good little state worshiping employee drone you are destined to be. Your life has no meaning save for its contribution to the greater glory of the corporate state.
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