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  1. #101
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Their allegiance is to abstract liberal concepts like free trade, not to the USA per se. If we become a third-world country in the process of fostering so-called free trade so be it.

  2. #102
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Their allegiance is to abstract liberal concepts like free trade, not to the USA per se. If we become a third-world country in the process of fostering so-called free trade so be it.

    How in the wil free trade turn us into a third-world country?

  3. #103
    Pimp Marcus Bryant's Avatar
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    Their allegiance is to abstract liberal concepts like free trade, not to the USA per se. If we become a third-world country in the process of fostering so-called free trade so be it.
    Meanwhile, they're on the hunt for "traitors" among the left, or anywhere for that matter. Disagree with a perpetual war machine and you're a communist.

    They worry about the well-being of large multinational organizations, cry about the taxes paid by billionaires, and tag anyone who expresses concern about ordinary Americans as a Bolshevik.

  4. #104
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    How in the wil free trade turn us into a third-world country?
    Go back to sleep, Darrin. You won't miss a thing.

  5. #105
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    How in the will free trade turn us into a third-world country?
    By decimating our productive base and bringing down the cost of American labor. It's already happening.

    National insolvency and currency collapse will seal the deal.

  6. #106
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    And they laugh at Friedman, though he's simply a little further along than they are in embracing this new 'flat world.' Soon enough they will also be extolling the virtues of the Chinese communist state and suggesting its adoption here. , soon enough the Chinese will own us.

  7. #107
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Patriotism consists of sacrificing our standard of living to *global compe iveness*, for the greater good of multinational businesses that export the wealth and productivity of the USA. People who can't see this as a race to the bottom simply haven't got their heads screwed on straight.

  8. #108
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    Meanwhile, they're on the hunt for "traitors" among the left, or anywhere for that matter. Disagree with a perpetual war machine and you're a communist.

    They worry about the well-being of large multinational organizations, cry about the taxes paid by billionaires, and tag anyone who expresses concern about ordinary Americans as a Bolshevik.
    Well said.

    It seems that WC thnks that all taxes on corporations are bad. I'd like to see what tax scheme he would prefer instead.

  9. #109
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    Patriotism consists of sacrificing our standard of living to *global compe iveness*, for the greater good of multinational businesses that export the wealth and productivity of the USA. People who can't see this as a race to the bottom simply haven't got their heads screwed on straight.
    What's wonderful as well is the thinking that America magically benefits from corporations that work here.

    The thinking goes, as far as I see it, that we should lower taxes in order to keep corporations here. However, workers overseas, due to a depressed economy, will work for much less than American workers. It's unrealistic to expect the American economy to drop to the levels of poorer countries.

    Therefore, conservatives want to lower taxes on corporations, so they will continue to base some of their operation here, even though a large amount of their output will forever be manufactured by poorer countries.

    How does this make sense? Do they think that WalMart will reinvest all of its money back into the States?

  10. #110
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    , we used to be against communists until we learned they'd make cheap for us and lend us a trillion.

  11. #111
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    By decimating our productive base and bringing down the cost of American labor. It's already happening.

    National insolvency and currency collapse will seal the deal.


    How much do factory workers make in China?

  12. #112
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    How much do factory workers make in China?
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer

    Most of the 2,100 workers here are poor migrants from the countryside who have come to this industrial hub in southern China for jobs that pay about $120 a month.

  13. #113
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    You tell me, Darrin. Then you can go ahead and make your point, if you're not allergic to that.

  14. #114
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    Now, granted, that article is from 2004, and there are signs that the wages have been increasing. For instance, in this article in 2008...

    http://www.forbes.com/2008/04/02/chi...markets03.html

    The mean annual wage for a typical urban Chinese employee grew by a blistering 18.72% in 2007, to 24,932 yuan ($3,556.63), or 99.32 yuan ($14.17) per day, the National Bureau of Statistics said, adding that it was the fastest growth in six years and higher than the 14% on average of the preceding six years.
    Wow! A whole $3500 a year!

  15. #115
    Pimp Marcus Bryant's Avatar
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    Mean bank in a commie land.

  16. #116
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    Mean bank in a commie land.
    I'm looking forward to DarrinS's insightful post now.

  17. #117
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    I'm looking forward to DarrinS's insightful post now.
    I'm not.

    Darrin is lazy. He's waiting for us to answer his own question so he can deflect us with another meaningless question he won't answer, and which probably leads nowhere.

    It's his famous bizarro-socratic method. He likes to lead conversations from clarity to obscurity. He probably thinks asking so many useless questions makes him look sagely, but in fact it makes him look like a dolt.

  18. #118
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    I'm looking forward to DarrinS's insightful post now.

    My point is that capitalism isn't the greatest system -- well, besides all the others.


    I still don't know how the free market is turning us into a 3rd world country. Hasn't so far.

  19. #119
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    ^ Is my point unclear?

    I'm not.

    Darrin is lazy. He's waiting for us to answer his own question so he can deflect us with another meaningless question he won't answer, and which probably leads nowhere.

    It's his famous bizarro-socratic method. He likes to lead conversations from clarity to obscurity. He probably thinks asking so many useless questions makes him look sagely, but in fact it makes him look like a dolt.

  20. #120
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Then hit the snooze bar while the rest of us deal with it.

  21. #121
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    Meanwhile, they're on the hunt for "traitors" among the left, or anywhere for that matter. Disagree with a perpetual war machine and you're a communist.

    They worry about the well-being of large multinational organizations, cry about the taxes paid by billionaires, and tag anyone who expresses concern about ordinary Americans as a Bolshevik.
    They don't have to hunt very far on the left or in the whitehouse to find communists.The workers don't want their ing revolution cause we usually end up getting killed while the appartchicks live like lords.
    What does the left offer up? socialisim, communisim,or variants, that no choice that's the illusion of choice for the dopes, it's hope4dopes.
    What makes the left a particularlly virulent form of oppression is that it offers change like Obama, Chavez,Castro, but it never delivers in fact is far more oppresive to the workers.
    I've heard Pete Stark call the union goons brothers? a piece of BANKER that's what pete stark was a banker. He has no idea of the life of the workers he throw a few slogans around, and tell the dumb s if you vote for me I'll give you pie in the sky.
    The left is as far in bed with the corporations as the right, the media down play it so the people live with the illusion that the parties have an actual platform.
    The left pats the worker on the head calls him salt of the earth, and sheds a few tears, calls them the backbone of America. That is for as long as the worker pulls the party line,but once they stray from leftist dogma they suddenly become toothless,neanderthal rednecks, or swastika carrying mobs.

  22. #122
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Then hit the snooze bar while the rest of us deal with it.

    .

  23. #123
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    My point is that capitalism isn't the greatest system -- well, besides all the others.


    I still don't know how the free market is turning us into a 3rd world country. Hasn't so far.
    It is by far and away the best, that's why we need to protects it from those who buy our political class to create monopoly,or legislation that keeps others out of the market alot of the enviormental laws for example are supported by big bussiness , because it helps keep smaller companies with less available capital to survive massive expenditures neede to comply with petty and stupid enviormental hoops.While real enviormental issues are put on the backburner.

  24. #124
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    It is by far and away the best, that's why we need to protects it from those who buy our political class to create monopoly,or legislation that keeps others out of the market alot of the enviormental laws for example are supported by big bussiness , because it helps keep smaller companies with less available capital to survive massive expenditures neede to comply with petty and stupid enviormental hoops.While real enviormental issues are put on the backburner.

    Aren't environmental regs doing wonders for California's economy?

  25. #125
    Pimp Marcus Bryant's Avatar
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    Isn't trade with China doing wonders for ours?

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