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uhh. i think that's darrins point he's trying to get across.
Everything?
What does that mean?
uhh. i think that's darrins point he's trying to get across.
He was arguing the reverse IMO -- that we should all loosen up and allow a bit of English cheekiness.
damn those illegal aliens. now they are responsible for the eradication of civility on capitol hill !!!!
Disregard... question was answered upthread.
Thats what I would argue. I love watching Britain's House of Commons.
I love watching it too. But what works for them wouldn't here. Pretty soon, Capitol Hill would be like WWE. We don't do that in our representative bodies. I disagree that it would be a good thing if we did. The fake dignity of our proceedings fosters real order in the process.
Perhaps, but at least people would be aware of something going on in congress, unlike now.
I don't want order in our process. I don't want DC politics as usual. It was never designed to be orderly. It was designed to be confrontational...that's what the seperation of powers is all about. To put them at each others throats, and make them watch each other like hawks. I want them all calling each other liars and theives...cuz that's what most of them are.
The more "orderly" and polite they are...the more crap they shove down our throats. If your looking for DC to do for you...I can understand you being upset. Personally, I see nothing good coming from govt right now, so I want them fighting like cats. I want this congress to do absolutely nothing. They've already screwed the future of this country for the next couple of generations at least. That's enuf already.
And didn't they usta have duels...this "you lie" comment is nothing.
It was never designed to be orderly.
Uhm... it wasn't designed to be disorderly. They occasionally did have duels, and shouting matches, yes. And politics were dirty then, as they were now. But it wasn't meant to be a shouting match. There's a reason they wore wigs, after all. Decorum and whatnot.
Did George Bush ever call any of his critics liars? In a speech to a joint session of Congress? Has any previous president ever done that? Not that I recall. In fact, I vividly recall being upset with President Bush because, in the face of unrelenting demonizing, from the Left – who routinely called him a liar, a criminal, and worse; in all sorts of venues, domestically and abroad – he maintained civility and simply responded that reasonable people disagree and that his colleagues on the other side of the aisle weren’t evil or liars, they were just wrong.
President Obama stood up there and flatly called his, and his plan’s, critics liars. And, considering his White House released a pre-speech statement that specifically targeted former Governor (and Republican Vice Presidential candidate) Sarah Palin, his statement during the speech are not much different than those of Congressman Wilson. He called Sarah Palin a liar…and, he did it in the prestigious, hallowed well of the United States House of Representatives…before a joint session of Congress…to which he was invited. Why isn’t Obama being held to account for his obvious lack of Congressional decorum and civility?
But, back to Wilson. I really think most Americans are going to find it difficult to get exercised about his momentary lapse in temperament. After all, someone who encourages his supporters to, “get in their face,” and “punch back twice as hard,” has little standing to cry foul when he is similarly confronted. It stands to reason, if you want to benefit from traditions of decorum and civility, you should respect them – and that has hardly been a trait of this administration which goes out of its way to demonize and shout down opponents.
I also say, this is logical outcome of 8 years of gross incivility toward a Republican President. I’m not saying it’s right but, Wilson isn’t a minority party leader in the House – he’s just one of approximately 175 Republicans, a back-bencher at that. There’s going to be a hot head somewhere…and, I guess he was it. I challenge you to look back at other joint sessions and regard the behavior of Democrats at speeches given by President Bush. Booing, jeering, silly facial expressions, sitting on hands, and all sorts of audible and visible demonstrations of derision and disrespect…and childishness. I challenge you to find a leading, significant, or prominent Democrat member of Congress (Joe Lieberman being a notable exception) who didn’t, sometime in the past 8 years, publicly call President Bush a liar or worse.
Well, I think we’ve heard how the Left is going to try and spin this to their advantage. Just like they tried to infer the swastika-bearing LaRouchites, at town hall meetings, represented everyone who opposed the President’s call for reform, they’re going to paint Congressman Wilson as representative of all Republicans. Someone over at Politico is claiming this is going to galvanize the Democrats and will result in passage of HR3200. All I’ve got to say is, if those 44 or 47 Democrats – already on record as declaring they will not vote for a bill with (or without) the “public” option, are compelled to pass legislation out of some sense of righteous indignation over the President being called a liar by some minor politician, their cons uents will send them packing next November – and they know it.
Let me “recalibrate” that last statement. I’m not sure, at all, this is how the Left will tack on the outburst. (I’m leaving it in because, it’s possible they’ll attempt it none-the-less). But, I just heard Vice President Biden’s comments (from Good Morning America this morning) and, to his credit, he attempted to put the whole matter into some semblance of a proper perspective.
He said a bit more that was complimentary of the Republican response to Congressman Wilson’s outburst but, not surprisingly, I’m having a difficult time finding the entire quote on the intertube webs. Hopefully, a video will be posted soon, by someone…it was quite remarkable. Anyway, I applaud his sense of comity and his refusal to attempt and blow this out of proportion for political gain.
I do wonder, however, if he feels the same about his boss’s similar lack of decorum during the speech…
President Obama has similarly accepted Congressman Wilson’s apology so, I guess any attempt to use this to their advantage won’t get the Democrats very far.
Of course, it could be the President and Vice President are just going to leave the red meat attacks to someone else. Only time will tell.
In the end, none of this will change anything…just like the speech won’t change anything. It is just another wasted hour of television by the networks. I’m sure they’re getting fed up with all of Obama’s demands for air time only to watch it go to naught.
Now, let’s not lose sight of the fact Congressman Wilson was right. President Obama is lying when he claims illegal aliens will not be eligible for health care/insurance under his plan. We were all led to believe President Obama would take the podium last night and detail his health care reform plan. He didn’t. The only ObamaCare plan he has endorsed, is HR3200…demanding Congress pass it before the August recess. So, absent an official Obama plan [he didn’t hold one up last night or give us the url to view it online] and, taking his support of HR3200 at face value – without excepting the provisions giving illegal aliens eligibility – we can only conclude that, indeed, Obama’s plan will cover illegal aliens.
So, let’s look at HR3200 – the only written plan yet endorsed by President Obama.
There is nothing in HR3200 excluding illegal aliens from the various coverage provisions – (with a few limited exceptions). The Congressional Research Service (CRS) agrees in a report (at the link) led, “Treatment of Non-Citizens in H.R. 3200.” For example, the CRS found:
And, although they may not have mentioned it, I’ve also read there are provisions prohibiting the requirement of demonstrating proof of residency or citizenship when applying for coverage under ObamaCare.
Since the Obama administration wanted a full House vote passing HR3200 prior to the August recess, Obama was okay with a bill that included illegal aliens. Does that make him a liar? Yep.
One of the talking points coming out of the Obama camp is that Obama wasn’t lying because Section 246, of H.R. 3200, specifically excludes illegal aliens from receiving Individual Affordability Credits. While that is true, it doesn’t exculpate the president. In fact, it is the exception which proves the rule. It only applies to the IAC’s and, since similar exclusionary language is absent from the other, critical aspects of the government health system (including health care exchanges), -- and, since we can’t require applicants for coverage to demonstrate their citizenship – any good lawyer [and I presume his supporters consider Obama one of those] would recognize by specifically excluding illegal aliens from one narrow provision of the bill without doing so for other sections or, better, in a blanket provision covering the entire act, necessarily means illegal aliens are not excluded from other provisions.
Oh yeah, how ‘bout the lies I predicted yesterday?
President Obama will say there are 42 to 47 (it changes) million uninsured Americans.
Well, I got that one wrong but, in a very bizarre way. He threw out a new figure – 30 million. WTF? Where’d the other 16 million go? , at this rate, we can just forget reform and wait. By November, the crisis of the uninsured will completely vanish. The Census Bureau even came out with a report, today, that says there are 46 million uninsured people in America.
But wait! Senator John McCain helpfully tells us where the 16 million went. When Matt Lauer asked him if Wilson was right, did Obama lie, McCain defended Obama by pointing out – (paraphrasing) – he lowered the number of uninsured from 47 million to 30 million so, of course, that means he’s taken the illegals out of the equation.
Tell the authors of HR3200 that. After all, it’s the legislation on the table, the “plan” Obama insisted be voted through to his desk by the end of August. Changing the numbers doesn’t change the text of the bill.
And, I don’t recall him asking the Democrats to change anything in HR3200 last night.
President Obama will say his plan is “deficit neutral.”
Every serious analysis, including the one performed by the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO), concluding up to $2 Trillion MORE dollars will be added to the deficit to pay for this atrocious socialism, contradicts that statement. We do not have the money…but, more importantly, how can anyone believe we’ll add 30-47 million uninsured Americans to the pool, cover every condition – pre-existing or not, previously covered or not – and not add a single dime to the deficit? It’s nonsensical. Seriously, where is he going to get the money? No place. He’s lying.
President Obama will identify the “obstacles” to this progressive and necessary reform as one or more of the various demons he’s invoked since he started this crusade. Most certainly, Republicans will head that list; but, you’re just as likely to hear about the money-grubbing insurance companies or, even, the tonsil-stealing, foot-amputating doctors.
There was a lot of complaining about, and demonizing of, the opposition but, calling Sarah Palin a liar pretty much makes this prediction accurate.
President Obama will claim his opponents – and, Republicans in particular – don’t have an alternative plan; that they are satisfied with the status quo and want to do nothing.
I threw in that last part as a prime example of the President’s fear-mongering…just ‘cause, it’s my post and I can. Anyway, I will give him this. Elsewhere in his speech, he did mention a couple of Republican proposals that he admitted had merit and should be “discussed” – one, made by President Bush – he said he would direct his HHS Secretary to pilot in some states. (We’ll see).
Nonetheless, he eventually came back to the inference that his opponents want the status quo – to do nothing.
President Obama will say the “public” option won’t be subsidized.
Social Security was to be paid for out of the Social Security Trust Fund which, in turn was to be enriched by Social Security Taxes collected from workers who would eventually receive a return on that “investment” through Social Security Payments in their retirement years. Social Security is bankrupt because Congress looted their trust fund and now, it is heavily subsidized just so the federal government can meet its obligations to those who are en led a return on their forced “investment.” Even so, it is near collapse and literally insolvent.
Medicare and Medicaid similarly were to be paid for out of taxes extracted from our collective incomes. Health care is expensive and government programs, particularly large ones, are notorious for fraud, waste, and inefficiency. Because of this, both Medicare and Medicaid are – just like Social Security – insolvent and near collapse.
The United States Postal Service should exist on the profits from the sales of postal products and services. It doesn’t and, it can’t compete with UPS and FedEx; so, it is heavily subsidized.
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac?
The FHA and the FDIC? Broke and being subsidized to meet their obligations.
Amtrak is supposed to operate on profits from ticket sales? Who wants to ride the train at prices more exorbitant than air travel? Subsidized.
I’m sure I’m missing some but, the point is, how in the world – with all the subsidizing of government enterprises, originally designed to pay for themselves, do you expect yet one more government program to operate in the black? It’s not going to happen. You will be subsidizing ObamaCare because, if it passes, it will operate in the red. I guarantee it.
who are you today, yoni?
that copy n paste is very handy to some
if you think about it........the only thing yoni hasn't stolen is his "black experience."
It's a lost cause to some of the people in this thread. Non-republicans cant win a arguement in a board with a bunch of southern republicans who still believe that bush was a good president. What Wilson does was disgraceful and then you have the other republican holding those papers with their proposals for a health-care plan and then that guy with a white board. As a Poster in here early said: South + Black President = What happened yesterday
Thanks, I like to think it shows off my congenial side. The event do ented in the photo also fits in well with my response to hope4dopes...
Pete Stark was the recognized speaker at the time he made those remarks. I won't agree with or condemn anything he said while he was recognized on the floor, other than to say his comments were made after Bush's actions (and the consequences) had convinced him, in his life experience, that Bush was a rotten "decider." Joe Wilson was not the recognized speaker when he yelled at the President of the United States. But even then, I don't think it was really much of a bad thing when he's got his supporters in SC probably happy to see him stand up to the big bag black man trying to turn their beloved country into a socialist leaning power-sharing shadow of its former self. I can't help but feel Wilson made the right move for himself, and that's what politics is all about.
I'm pretty shallow and uninformed, but I don't know any decision Obama has made that was based on a lie or fear that caused the violent deaths of Americans, let alone America's protectors. I understand people don't want to let him make those mistakes, so they criticize and yell to shake his focus. But hs please, let's reserve the hate for when Obama does something really ed up like choke on pretzel. He did win the popular vote afterall.
Wow. so this is what the left has turned to defend the indefensable. HEY IF YOU QUESTION OBAMA YOUR A RACIST SO SHUT UP HONKY. you apparently you weren't plugged in when old teddy kennedy bought the farm the conservatives on this board were ESTATIC they didn't give a if the socialist is white, black or brown they just don't like socialists, your chicken dismissal of whites in south carolina is about as astute as The revrends Wright and Farrahkans dismissal of whites and jews.
Also you apparently don't have a clue to who pete stark is or his past behavior in congress he has a reputation of being a bully and letting his mouth get his ass in trouble.Yet you defend his accusation of bush as a murderer, you assume Stark has some kind of divine sight which mr. wilson lacks because of course he is a stupid bubba from the south, and your defense is Well he called him a sadistic murderer but the POINT is he followed protocol...? please.
You need to get a little bit more angry. try typing in all caps.
Joe Wilson is not a racist, so don't start there. Does interrupting the first black president in history during speech make you a racist? Does working for Strom thurmond's advocacy of segregation make you a racist? Does pushing agenda that punished illegal immigrants solely and not employers make you a racist?
No.
I'm sorry if you got that impression, I wasn't trying to come across as angry.
Were you trying to come across as an adolecent dumb scrawling graffitti in the boys room.
Win. I'm just surprised he didn't say "lying ######!"and so it begins. love the internet
Really? Why?
Magic Negro called Whott's girlfriend, the lying pitbull , future resident of Mt Rushmore, a liar, and Whott's hurt.
Whott was pissed at dubya because What-Me-Worry wouldn't retaliate.
Now that Magic Negro retaliates against the lies, Whott's pissed again.
ing hypocrite
Obama speech disrupter a health industry darling
"In fact, over his entire congressional career, health professionals represent Wilson’s top industry contributors, donating a total of $244,196 to his campaign, according to the Center for Responsive Politics OpenSecrets.org database. He received another $86,150 from pharmaceutical companies, $73,050 from insurance companies and $68,000 from hospitals and nursing homes."
http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/09/...ustry-darling/
"Opponent of 'You Lie' Rep. raises $405,000 in a day"
http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/09/opp...000-overnight/
It's gonna cost the health industry lobbyists a lot more to get their asshole re-elected.
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