If prime Robinson and prime Duncan switched era's

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

There is no apostrophe in "eras".

And yes, I am on apostrophe rampage this morning!

[whottt]

I notice you don't cover the bull "malone and Barkley" thing.

Just so you can be forewarned, you are now talking to a man that thinks they could have plugged any old scrub in to defend Shaq during the Spurs first two championships. It's like, not even important to him. Defending Shaq is just, nothing, any team can do it. Besides, Duncan was feeling it those two years....


When Jaren Jackson nuked the Lakers? Was because Tim Duncan was feeling it that season.

That 19 points in a quarter and OT against Detroit in game 5 of the NBA finals by Robert Horry?

Duncan
Feeling
It
100%.

Steve Kerr? Mavs?


Duncan feeling it. The reason Kerr was in the game was not because no one else could hit a shot, it was because Duncan wasn't feeling it. Kerr was put into the game so Duncan would again, feel it.








Stephen Jackson bombing all those shots in the 2003 run?

Yeap. Duncan, feeling it.

S'really what it's all about. Duncan either feels it or he doesn't.

Olympics, with LeBron and Wade and AI and Kidd, gainst Manu?

Not feeling it. Not that year. Spent the off season practicing with the Olympic Squad, gave up his summer.... ed himself up for the following season, being humiliated on a world stage, and trashed(along with the Dream Team) by his fellow citizen, just because it seemed like it would be fun. He did not want to win Olympic Gold that year....

Because...
He
Did
Not
Feel
It

then.

[TD 21]

There is such a thing as making your case for one player over the other without desperately trying to demean the other. It seems to me that all you're doing is propping up Robinson by trying to downplay Duncan's greatness. We all know about the times that role players stepped up; guess what? That's what happens on championship teams. The supposedly greatest player of all-time had guys like Paxson in the '93 Finals and Kerr in the '97 Finals there to make big shots. You can list similar examples with any all-time great, because, after all, basketball is a team game. The ultimate team game, and nobody wins a damn thing on their own.

But Duncan, he came about as close to doing that as one can get in '03. I understand and don't underestimate the job Robinson did guarding O'Neal, or the importance of Parker, Ginobili, Bowen, Jackson, Rose, and Claxton, but let's get real here: what Duncan did in '03 is unmatched -- save for probably Olajuwon in '94 -- in recent NBA history.

By the way, Duncan's line in game 4 against the Lakers in '99 to close down the Forum: 33 points, 14 rebounds, 4 assists, 11-14 fg's. You can point to the Kerr moment in the '03 West Finals all you want, but just remember the type of numbers Duncan was throwing up in that series, as well as in the '06 West Semis against the Mavs.

[Biggems]

Duncan was hit with some poor luck....

2004.......the shot

2006.....plantar fascia

2008.....Manu injured, Pop wouldnt play Barry more

We could have and should have won 5, possibly 6 consecutive NBA les.

[scanry]

Some people are taking this too darn personnel. D Rob was and still is loved by the Spurs community, so why the trash talk.

I can't believe someone can actually belittle Duncan to make D Rob look better? The Spurs are blessed to have had D Rob and Duncan represent San Antonio.

[whottt]

There is no apostrophe in "eras".

And yes, I am on apostrophe rampage this morning!

Why in the don't you an Alamo ever get down in the trenches and get bloody with me?


Who gives a crap if David would want it or not...it's about the truth.


Pretend these guys I am arguing with are timvp and the commisioner of Dleague 1


Get dirty.

[TD 21]

Duncan was hit with some poor luck....

2004.......the shot

2006.....plantar fascia

2008.....Manu injured, Pop wouldnt play Barry more

We could have and should have won 5, possibly 6 consecutive NBA les.

Right, and why was this the case? Mainly because of Duncan. Ginobili, and Parker, as good as they've been, particularly in Ginobili's case from '05-present, and Parker's '07-present, at least in terms of the playoffs, they're not full fledged superstars. Were the Spurs more talented than the Pistons, Suns, or Mavericks? Individually, no. Look at that '07 team. Knock the compe ion all you want, but 16-4, while remarkable in itself, for a team starting two sub par offensive players (Oberto, Bowen), and two players who shouldn't have been starting (Finley, at that point in his career; Oberto was never true starting caliber), is truly mind-boggling.

[whottt]

Some people are taking this too darn personnel. D Rob was and still is loved by the Spurs community, so why the trash talk.

I can't believe someone can actually belittle Duncan to make D Rob look better? The Spurs are blessed to have had D Rob and Duncan represent San Antonio.

And I can't believe Spur fans on David Robinson...

More importantly, what I am saying is the truth, and what they are saying is not. I am not speaking from ignorance and lack of insight, and they are.

They start it, they start the ugliness...they start the Spur on Spur violence.

Don't whine like a just because I can get uglier...



Anytime David Robinson is belittled to make Duncan look better I am going to stick it up their ass until they ing bleed.

And I will outdo them in visciousness, ugliness and tyness every ing time.

So you guys either stop being stupid enough to insinuate David Robinson was in any way the reason we didn't win championships, in a stupid effort to get Duncan credit he already gets...or else it's ugliness.


Don't say David Robinson was the reason the Spurs didn't win a championship, don't even ing think it. Idiots.

[TD 21]

And I can't believe Spur fans on David Robinson...

More importantly, what I am saying is the truth, and what they are saying is not. I am not speaking from ignorance and lack of insight, and they are.

They start it, they start the ugliness...they start the Spur on Spur violence.

Don't whine like a just because I can get uglier...



Anytime David Robinson is belittled to make Duncan look better I am going to stick it up their ass until they ing bleed.

And I will outdo them in visciousness, ugliness and tyness every ing time.

So you guys either stop being stupid enough to insinuate David Robinson was in any way the reason we didn't win championships, in a stupid effort to get Duncan credit he already gets...or else it's ugliness.


Don't say David Robinson was the reason the Spurs didn't win a championship, don't even ing think it. Idiots.

So you can't believe that Spurs fans supposedly " on" Robinson, but you'll do the same, ten times worse, to Duncan? The same guy that damn near unanimously is considered a greater player than Robinson was. That doesn't make sense.

[EricB]

99 Drob was more of a centerpiece of winning that ring that Duncan.

2003 it was just because he had nothing left but again, they don't get by the Lakers NOR the Nets without Robinson.

[EricB]

So you can't believe that Spurs fans supposedly " on" Robinson, but you'll do the same, ten times worse, to Duncan? The same guy that damn near unanimously is considered a greater player than Robinson was. That doesn't make sense.

Look re he's ting on Duncan because wads that jumped on the bandwagon in 2004 don't give Robinson his ing due.


Keep up the great fight Whottt.

[TD 21]

99 Drob was more of a centerpiece of winning that ring that Duncan.

2003 it was just because he had nothing left but again, they don't get by the Lakers NOR the Nets without Robinson.

Duncan clearly was the centerpiece, obviously you're just being biased, and nostalgic at this point.

Now the truth comes out; you're just unwilling, for whatever reason, to acknowledge Duncan's greatness. Maybe because you think it takes away from Robinson's greatness? Whatever the case, obviously no team ever get's past any team, particularly elite team, without myriad contributors. But Duncan's '03 performance ranks amongst the top handful in the history of the game.

[TD 21]

Look re he's ting on Duncan because wads that jumped on the bandwagon in 2004 don't give Robinson his ing due.


Keep up the great fight Whottt.

Another ignorant piece of . I guess if you don't have 5 million posts then your opinion is not respected around here. Just because we're all not a bunch of old men getting all nostalgic about the "good 'ol days", doesn't mean we don't understand, and appreciate the impact Robinson had on this franchise. But ting on Duncan, an even greater player, is not the answer. It's downright childish.

[EricB]

Duncan clearly was the centerpiece, obviously you're just being biased, and nostalgic at this point.

Now the truth comes out; you're just unwilling, for whatever reason, to acknowledge Duncan's greatness. Maybe because you think it takes away from Robinson's greatness? Whatever the case, obviously no team ever get's past any team, particularly elite team, without myriad contributors. But Duncan's '03 performance ranks amongst the top handful in the history of the game.

off.

Tim Duncan is the greatest power forward to ever play the game.

Duncan was NOT clearly the centerpiece in 99, nostalgic my ass.

[ajh18]

There is such a thing as making your case for one player over the other without desperately trying to demean the other. It seems to me that all you're doing is propping up Robinson by trying to downplay Duncan's greatness. We all know about the times that role players stepped up; guess what? That's what happens on championship teams. The supposedly greatest player of all-time had guys like Paxson in the '93 Finals and Kerr in the '97 Finals there to make big shots. You can list similar examples with any all-time great, because, after all, basketball is a team game. The ultimate team game, and nobody wins a damn thing on their own.

This is why I believe the only major difference between how the Spurs would perform is based on matchups. I think that on the teams of our current decade, David in his prime makes us match up much better with the Mavs and the Suns, mostly due to his superior man-on-man defense, especially when guarding quicker players like Amare and Dirk.

I believe that having Duncan, however, gave us the advantage against the Pistons in '05, and that we might have struggled more against some of the teams we beat really easily like the Jazz and Nuggets if David is there instead.

Ironically, I agree with a post I read in another thread. You take Manu, Parker, and Bowen, and put them on the mid-90's Spurs with David? I think we beat not just the rockets and jazz, I think we take out the bulls and win 2 or 3 les at a minimum.

[whottt]

So you can't believe that Spurs fans supposedly " on" Robinson, but you'll do the same, ten times worse, to Duncan? The same guy that damn near unanimously is considered a greater player than Robinson was. That doesn't make sense.

Oh but you see...what I say is the total truth, Duncan wasn't good enough to do it by himself....not at any point did he do so.

I am sorry if that doesn't jibe with your stupid perception of the game...but it is true nontheless.


You guys OTOH are saying David Robinson wasn't good enough to do it with a team capable of doing it.

And that is absolutely not the truth whatsoever. David Robinson was good enough to win a championship, from the very day he stepped on the court, to the day he walked off of it. And not a single time that they failed to do so, was it ever his fault.


It makes total sense to me...I am a misanthropic individual pretty much at odds with the world and the mindless stupidity of human beings, I just need a deserving outlet...and idiots serve that purpose. If you guys are going to be bunch of stupid ing morons that crap on the guy that saved the franchise, something Duncan probably would not have done had the situation been reversed....you aren't much of a Spurfan.

I know what a lot of people say...a lot of people also used to say the earth was flat.


I don't care if you guys think Duncan is better than Drob, I do not care if you guys think he is the greatest player ever....


But when you say David Robinson couldn't get it done...you are being a head and a ing moron. And he did get it done, he did everything in his power, even taking a role beyond the notice of idiots, just like he promised he would when he signed his contract with SA.

[EricB]

Another ignorant piece of . I guess if you don't have 5 million posts then your opinion is not respected around here. Just because we're all not a bunch of old men getting all nostalgic about the "good 'ol days", doesn't mean we don't understand, and appreciate the impact Robinson had on this franchise. But ting on Duncan, an even greater player, is not the answer. It's downright childish.

Ah the old "just because I dont have a billion posts doesn't mean I'm an idiot"

No one said anything about post count oor anything like that, were talking about wads tearing down David Robinson so that the Altar to Tim Duncan isn't shadowed at all.

[TD 21]

Oh but you see...what I say is the total truth, Duncan wasn't good enough to do it by himself....not at any point did he do so.

I am sorry if that doesn't jibe with your stupid perception of the game...but it is true nontheless.


You guys OTOH are saying David Robinson wasn't good enough to do it with a team capable of doing it.

And that is absolutely not the truth whatsoever. David Robinson was good enough to win a championship, from the very day he stepped on the court, to the day he walked off of it. And not a single time that they failed to do so, was it ever his fault.


It makes total sense to me...I am a misanthropic individual pretty much at odds with the world and the mindless stupidity of human beings, I just need a deserving outlet...and idiots serve that purpose. If you guys are going to be bunch of stupid ing morons that crap on the guy that saved the franchise, something Duncan probably would not have done had the situation been reversed....you aren't much of a Spurfan.

I know what a lot of people say...a lot of people also used to say the earth was flat.


I don't care if you guys think Duncan is better than Drob, I do not care if you guys think he is the greatest player ever....


But when you say David Robinson couldn't get it done...you are being a head and a ing moron. And he did get it done, he did everything in his power, even taking a role beyond the notice of idiots, just like he promised he would when he signed his contract with SA.

To you and EricB, that's fine what you're doing, but attempting to demean, and downplay Duncan's greatness in the process is re ed. They both have contributed a great deal to the franchise you cheer for.

EricB, I may be new here, but I've been around enough message boards to know how people like you act on them. You're clearly the type that disregards anyone who's not a veteran member.

Whottt, I never said Robinson wasn't good enough to be 'the guy' on a championship team (although he never accomplished the feat, no matter how you two choose to remember '99), so don't lump me in with others. Like I said, of course Duncan didn't "do it alone" in '03, but he came about as close as you can, particularly as a big man.

[whottt]

The only thing I'm saying about Duncan is that he didn't do it by himself, and giving examples....oh how mean can I be?

Meanwhile you guys are saying David couldn't get it done on a team capable of it, as if he was somehow part of the problem...the only one belittling anyone is you.


Just because I'm being vulgar doesn't mean I'm belittling Duncan. He wasn't good enough to get it done by himself...neither was David, neither was any other player in NBA history. The POV that it is otherwise is both ed and wrong.

[whottt]

The way I look at it...any Spurfan that sounds like a RocketFan...is a RocketFan. I don't care who they say their favorite player is.

[HarlemHeat37]

I love David, but a lot of you really aren't being realists here..there's really no way we do better with Robinson ahead of Duncan, even if he's more versatile defensively against a guy like Dirk..

Duncan wasn't the reason we lost vs. Dallas, he CLEARLY outplayed Dirk..he did all he could..it was a fluke series where Manu made a horrible mistake..if he doesn't, then nobody remembers Dirk's performances, or the Mavs in general..

David Robinson is severely underrated by non-Spurs fans, partly due to the series vs. Hakeem, and partly due to his personality..he never had the proper supporting cast around him..he was clearly an athletic freak, and he's one of the best 15 players to ever play.. , he's probably the most underrated of the entire bunch..there's something realists won't deny though, and that's the fact that David had a lot of disappointing performances in the playoffs, partly due to his mentality and style, although some of it has to do with the support..

Excluding the last 2 seasons of his career(it would be unfair to him to include them), David's PPG dropped by 1.7 from season to playoffs, and his FG% dropped by a whole 5%, which is pretty bad for a player of his caliber..

Duncan has been the opposite..he has kept his FG% steady from season to playoffs, which is impressive in itself, but he's also raised every one of his statistical categories in the playoffs..

As for the support, Timmy clearly has had more, and it's been a big reason for our success..but he's already proven himself as a guy that can carry an entire franchise..Duncan in 2003 was only the 3rd player in the NBA's history to lead a team to a le while leading the team in PPG, RPG, APG, and BPG, joining Hakeem and Bill Walton..so quoting moments from 2003 is silly..

[NZ Spurs]

Get over it. Duncan is better than Robinson.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Why in the don't you an Alamo ever get down in the trenches and get bloody with me?


Who gives a crap if David would want it or not...it's about the truth.


Pretend these guys I am arguing with are timvp and the commisioner of Dleague 1


Get dirty.

Sorry mate, I'm not in a debating mood right now, I'm all chilled out.

I'll read this thread later and get to it for you though.

Don't worry, I'll be back with my full, fire-breathing persona come the season.

As for David's legacy, I think 48MoH pretty much nailed it:

http://www.48minutesof .com/2009/...e-role-player/

He carried mediocre Spurs teams for a decade. He was a physical and statistical marvel who was far better than he is remembered because of only one fact - he never won a championship alone (he also never had teammates like TP or Manu). Most important of all, he single-handedly kept the Spurs in SA, and he shaped the culture of this franchise, which in turn led to the explosion in success this decade.

Oh, and none of that is in any way detracting from Timmy.

[whottt]

Whottt, I never said Robinson wasn't good enough to be 'the guy' on a championship team (although he never accomplished the feat, no matter how you two choose to remember '99), so don't lump me in with others. Like I said, of course Duncan didn't "do it alone" in '03, but he came about as close as you can, particularly as a big man.

Crock of ...the 2003 team was the best Spurs Team of them all, are you ing kidding me?


3 Hall of Famers
3 Olympic Championships
About 20 All NBA Teams
About 18 All NBA Defensive Teams
Best 3 point shooter in NBA history, single season, and a carreer.
About 6 NBA 3 point shooting les.
3 or 4 rebounding les.
Blocked Shots le.
Scoring le.
Olympic MVP
Finals MVP


And none of those are including Tim Duncan.

I can't believe you guys think Duncan didn't have help on that team. That was one of the best basketball teams ever assembled.

It is the only basketball team in history to defeat a 3 time defending champion with it's core intact(meaning it's superstars were healthy).


It is the only team in NBA history to do that...and that doesn't even include the 60 win team they beat(that they haven't beat since), or the returning conference finalist.


You guys are morons if you think that was a scrub team...David Robinson right now would be better than any guy to line up at C since...and don't say he wasn't servicable, non-servicable players aren't the guys being asked to defend Shaq and actually left in by Pop to do it, and holding him scoreless when they are guy defending him in at least one of those games.

[senorglory]

1) There's no NBA team in San Antonio without Robinson.
2) There's no Duncan as we know him without Robinson.
3) There's no successful formulaic franchise model to follow without Robinson.