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Eh, maybe the same amount. I don't know, TD has an awesome character and is an amazing leader on and off the court, but so was Dave..
It was the talent surrounding them.
If the Spurs from 2003- 2009 had a prime David Robinson instead of Duncan how many les would he have won?
If the Spurs from 1987-1997 had a prime Duncan instead of Robinson, How many les would he have won?
Disregard the two les they had when they played together from 1998-2003.
Eh, maybe the same amount. I don't know, TD has an awesome character and is an amazing leader on and off the court, but so was Dave..
It was the talent surrounding them.
Similar results, but still better with Tim..Duncan's style of play is much more suited for the playoffs than David's style was..
Interesting question. Probably no way to know since Duncan would not have tolerated being surrounded with sub-par talent. He would have forced the Spurs to either get better players, or left for a better run team.
Considering we're mostly talking about the Bulls years, I doubt things would have been much different. , I can't even muster the iness to say we'd be a lock to have beaten the Rockets considering that so much of our recent success is owed not only to Tim's incredible skill, but to the entire team dynamic -- the supporting cast during Tim's reign has been vastly superior to anything the Admiral had to work with in his franchise-player years.
The teams that surrounded Robinson were . Duncan wouldn't have won anything more than Dave.
I think the Spurs probably get to the Finals once or twice in the 90's. There wasn't much that was going to stop MJ, though.
coaching and point guards. Duncan was blessed big Dave wasn't so it doesnt matter.
The 89 team is the only one I question...because you could run the offense through Duncan almost immediately. If they are running the offense through Duncan(and provided he didn't foul out as David did IIRC) then Rod Strickland and Ellliott don't get crossed up and throw the game away. You could run the offense through Duncan by his second year...I'm not entirely sure you could do it the first.
That doesn't mean they would have gone on to beat Detroit though...Detroit would have beaten a half court post player to a bloody pulp with Lambeir and Rodman.
Other than that...I don't see any teams that any other bigman would have won a le with that David played on, because the outside shooting and perimeter game wasn't good enough.
A better question is...if young David Robinson had old Tim Duncan as a teamate...how would things have turned out then?
Anyway, when doing this comparison, there are other factors...
Would Tim Duncan have even signed with the Spurs? It's debatable.
One thing is not...if Tim Duncan had signed with the Spurs, they would have surrounded him with better talent than they did Drob...because Duncan would have made them or else he would have walked. I mean Duncan almost walked away from a Spurs team that had won a championship. David never even came close to walking untill the end of his career and his motivations for walking were entirely different than Duncan's.
David didn't put that same kind of pressure to win on the Spurs. He looked at it as his job and his job alone to win the Spurs a le. He wasn't going to ask them to give him help. And IMO the Spurs took advantage of that aspect of David and didn't do everything they could have done to build a winner around him. Duncan wasn't going to play that game with the Spurs and he made that clear right off the bat...and it's probably the #1 reason the Spurs have 4 championships now more than anything Robinson or Duncan ever did on the court.
Last edited by whottt; 09-11-2009 at 04:13 PM.
Duncan doesn't get owned by Malone and Barkley, that's for sure.
Thanks for proving you weren't a Spurfan before 2005. Was already obvious but the proof was nice.
Idiot.
Last I checked Dirk Nowitski kicks our ass....thanks for proving you never watched Barkely and Malone as well.
Idiot.
Duncan was and is capable of leading a team to the championship when he is the THE guy, as he has proved several times now. Robinson was a great player, but he's simply not in Tim's class in terms of leading a team to a le when he's the horse.
No disrespect to Robinson, who is a Top 50 player all-time.
But Tim Duncan is a Top 5 player all-time. Big difference.
Jordan
Kareem
Wilt
Magic
Tim
At least David didn't get butt ed by Dirk Nowitski and have his 2 guard draw the assignment of defending him, as the guy on his team.
I know I know...it's different then.
Go ahead...blame Manu, I ing dare you.
Idiots.
Last edited by whottt; 09-11-2009 at 04:54 PM.
I don't think Duncan would have won les in the 90's. I think he may have advanced a bit farther in a few of those playoffs (with probably a worse regular season record than David got) simply because of his post game's effectiveness in the post-season.
With David in his prime on this team? I don't think we win in 2005. Tim really carried that team against the Wallaces, and I'm not sure David would have been quite so effective. That said, despite Tim's awesome performance in 2006, I think David would have beaten the Mavs because of his defensive abilities. David in his prime had the foot speed and athleticism to get up on and guard Dirk (and jump high enough to make his shots more difficult), which Tim (or anyone else we have now) simply can't do. He also would have made the Suns' life even harder, by further shutting down the lane and more than cancelling out Amare. He could guard an Amare, while not giving up any of the team defensive philosophy, far better than anyone we've had since can. Then again, we beat the Suns anyway.
Just my two cents.
Last edited by ajh18; 09-11-2009 at 05:48 PM.
David Robinson was a rookie in 1989. I was 7 years old. So when I saw I've been watching David since his first game, I mean that. I've also watched Tim since his first game.
How about not getting butt hurt every time someone mentions DRob's shortcomings. You come off like a troll every time you respond.
David doesn't carry the team in 2003 and 2005 the way Tim did (I already showed the stats to back up my theory), and Tim more than likely doesn't get owned by Hakeem, (Duncan was always a position defender who rarely left his feet on pump fakes) and have his entire career defined by one series.
Plus, I also showed that Duncan owned all in 2006 against the Mavs, on bad feet. Remember, Spurs down 3-1, Duncan brings them back, tie series 3-3, Game 7, Spurs have the lead and the win, and.........whoops Gino.
But again, I now you have a huge hard on for Dave, so any response you have can't be rational. After all, you're thinking with the wrong head, so to speak.
I don't see Duncan winning anything on Dave's teams (not enough supporting talent for most of them, and I don't see him stopping Hakeem in 95 either), but I also don't see Robinson leading any of Duncan's teams anywhere.
Duncan got owned by Dirk one series (I guess you can say that.....the Spurs still advance if not for Manu's dumb foul), but I have also seen Duncan get the better of a superb big in the postseason. When did Robinson ever do this?
Yeah? Well you come off like a ing idiot saying at least Duncan wasn't owned by Karl Malone, considering Duncan never beat him in the playoffs.
ing lying piece of . Duncan is 0-2 againstg Karl Malone. Including 0-1 as a defending champ. And don't you dare bring up teamates...because that was year David Robinson left. And Duncan had a proven championship side kick playing along side.
Furthermore, Duncan has not beaten Dirk Nowiski in the post since David Robinson retired.
Duncan cannot guard Amare Stoudemire or Dirk Nowtiski and you think he was going to shut ihng Hakeem Olajuwon down?David doesn't carry the team in 2003 and 2005 the way Tim did (I already showed the stats to back up my theory), and Tim more than likely doesn't get owned by Hakeem, (Duncan was always a position defender who rarely left his feet on pump fakes) and have his entire career defined by one series.
You are the stupidest ing idot I haver ever met in my life.
No no no...you go youself. Teamates don't matter remember?Plus, I also showed that Duncan owned all in 2006 against the Mavs, on bad feet. Remember, Spurs down 3-1, Duncan brings them back, tie series 3-3, Game 7, Spurs have the lead and the win, and.........whoops Gino.
And you consider Manu Ginobili a liability and valid reason for not winning, when he ing beat Duncan and a team of All Stars in the Olympics? But not Avery Johnson and Vinney Del Negro.
You stupid, ignorant mother er.
Actually you chicken piece of ...the reason you get so much hostility is because you act like David had everything he needed to win a championship yet immediately go the teamates card when you get your own ignorance stuck up your ass.But again, I now you have a huge hard on for Dave, so any response you have can't be rational. After all, you're thinking with the wrong head, so to speak.
You're a ing idiot, and you bring down the intelligence level of the board.
Even worse, you throw David Robinson under a bus, just make Duncan look better, which is something he doesn't even needl, which makes you not only an idiot, but a piece of as well.
FOAD. Your take is a dime a dozen, it's stupid, you contradict yourserlf immediately when presented with even a rudimentary counterpoint, and you are too ing stupud to even realize it.
Furthermore, you consider Manu Ginobili a reason the Spurs didn't win and David Robinson a reason Vinny Del Negro didn't win.
You don't know shiit. You are a ing moron.
In 2001: So why did the Spurs just lose to the Lakers by the worst margin in NBA WCF history in 2001, including Duncan geting held to 9 points in a game. Why did the double and triple teams render Duncan so ineffctive the Spurs were forced to turn to a 36 year old David Robinson who could barely walk, and was being defnded by Shaq to carry the offense?
Nathan E: Duncan didn't feel like stepping up.
It had nothing to do with the fact that not a single perimeter player could shut Kobe down or knock down a shot? Which is pretty much what happened to David Robinson every year due to the fact the had a PG who made 1 playoff 3 pointer in a 19 year career and a 2 guard who could not defend Bruce Bowen, and would have been a back up on any other team in the NBA?
Nathan E: Oh yeah well when you put it like that yeah. It definitely wasn't Duncan's fault. It was everyone elses. Plus Duncan just didn't feel like stepping up. He preferred to sit there on the sideline and cry...because he just didn't feel like stepping up.
In 2003:
Nathan E: Spurs won the championshiop because Ducnan felt like stepping up.
ing moron.
I have not seen Whottt this pissed ever. Whottt honestly loves Drob and I cannot blame the guy. I tell you what, I will never argue Robinson (not that I could ever say anything bad about the man) with Whottt.
Barry on the other hand is fair game....
Uh...Dirk's gotten him twice now. Karl Malone got him twice.
Amare Stoudemire dropped nearly 40 point a game on Duncan a couple of years ago.
So what you are saying is because Duncan had a team that could win a game where he scored 5 points means he is better because David played on teams that couldn't win games when he scored 30 points?
Hey ing idiot...but I have also seen Duncan get the better of a superb big in the postseason. When did Robinson ever do this?
Avery Johnson made 1 playoff 3 pointer in 19 ing years, that was an extra defender he had to contend with...that was John Stockton, being free to elbow him in the balls in every series they ever played.
You show me...one other player since the merger, that carried a team to the playoffs, much less to the conference finals, that David Robinson wasn't on...that had a PG that made 1 ing playoff 3 pointer in a 19 year career.
To put this in perspective...in Tony Parker's first game as a 19 year old rookie, against a HOF point guard, named the Glove, he tripled the figure Avery Johnson put up in his entire career.
Let me spell it out for you one more time
AJ in 19 years, in 90 playoffs games:
1-26 3pm-3pa
Tony Parker in his first playoff game, against Gary ing Payton, at the age of 19
1 game:
3-3 3pm-3pa
And Tony's not even supposed to be able to shoot.
You guys that make these arguments are just too ing stupid to understand what a double team is, what enables them to be done to players, and what it takes to beat them.
That first year Hakeem won a le...he played for a team that set the NBA single season record for 3 pointers made.
It mattered...it wasn't just that Hakeem felt like stepping up.
Dip s, why don't ya'll go look at the numbers David put up in the post seasion, when he had PG's that had some semblance of a perimeter threat..
And by the way...David Robinson was never swept in a series in his prime. That is not true of Hakeem, or Duncan, or Shaq, or Kareem, or Wilt.
And with the exception of the loss to GS, the teams David lost to were either teams that would at some point make the finals, to lose to perenneial champions like the Pistons or Bulls, and featured multiple HOF'ers on them, or at some point won a championship.
Last edited by whottt; 09-11-2009 at 07:46 PM.
I notice you don't cover the bull "malone and Barkley" thing.
Dikembe Mutombo in 1995 ring a bell?
We win at least 5 straight les with Robinson.....possibly 7.
Look how awesome we were with crap coaching and no real talent around David for most of his career....
Now with Manu, Parker, Bowen, Horry, Bones, Jax, Kerr, etc.....We own.
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