If prime Robinson and prime Duncan switched era's

[EricB]

1) There's no NBA team in San Antonio without Robinson.
2) There's no Duncan as we know him without Robinson.
3) There's no successful formulaic franchise model to follow without Robinson.

Bravo.

[whottt]

..so quoting moments from 2003 is silly..

As I said...and this is to you NZ Spur, I don't care if you guys think Duncan is better, it's that whole "Drob wasn't good enough" line that gets going.



I'll bring up 2003 all day long...


Matter of fact I'll bring it up right now.

We won. Yay.

How come we didn't win in 2004? We got rid of those old scrubs like Drob and Kerr that Duncan was basically forced to carry past the Lakers, Nets and Mavs...

So what happened in 2004? We reloaded, got a good young C...got Hedo. Manu and Parker were better.



How come we couldn't beat the Lakers? 0.4 wasn't the shot that eliminated us.

[wekko368]

Crock of ...the 2003 team was the best Spurs Team of them all, are you ing kidding me?


3 Hall of Famers
3 Olympic Championships
About 20 All NBA Teams
About 18 All NBA Defensive Teams
Best 3 point shooter in NBA history, single season, and a carreer.
About 6 NBA 3 point shooting les.
3 or 4 rebounding les.
Blocked Shots le.
Scoring le.
Olympic MVP
Finals MVP


And none of those are including Tim Duncan.

I can't believe you guys think Duncan didn't have help on that team. That was one of the best basketball teams ever assembled.

You can't gauge a roster by past and future accomplishments. You have to look at their merits during the year in question.

On the 2003 Spurs roster, there was only 1 HOF caliber player (Duncan). Robinson was very far removed from his dominance in the mid 90's, and Ginobili hadn't come close to being the player he is today.

[whottt]

You can't gauge a roster by past and future accomplishments. You have to look at their merits during the year in question.

On the 2003 Spurs roster, there was only 1 HOF caliber player (Duncan). Robinson was very far removed from his dominance in the mid 90's, and Ginobili hadn't come close to being the player he is today.

Nontheless......I can look right then and there see ing Robinson was the guy guarding Shaq and that was Steve Kerr(and Stephen Jackson) pulling our asses out of the fire...and that was Tony Parker lighting Kidd's ass up in the finals to where Jason Kidd was pulled off of him....9 time ALL NBA D Jason Kidd was pulled off of Tony Parker. I used to have the quote by him in my sig...

What did you to differently to defend Tony Parker?

Kidd(laughing): I started defending someone else.

Tim Duncan had nothing to do with that. That was all Tony Parker there.

[EricB]

Nontheless......I can look right then and there see ing Robinson was the guy guarding Shaq and that was Steve Kerr(and Stephen Jackson) pulling our asses out of the fire...and that was Tony Parker lighting Kidd's ass up in the finals to where Jason Kidd was pulled off of him....9 time ALL NBA D Jason Kidd was pulled off of Tony Parker. I used to have the quote by him in my sig...

What did you to differently to defend Tony Parker?

Kidd(laughing): I started defending someone else.

Tim Duncan had nothing to do with that. That was all Tony Parker there.

God thats a whole new point of contention with Tony Parker and how he "choked" in that Finals...

[whottt]

You can't gauge a roster by past and future accomplishments. You have to look at their merits during the year in question.

On the 2003 Spurs roster, there was only 1 HOF caliber player (Duncan). Robinson was very far removed from his dominance in the mid 90's, and Ginobili hadn't come close to being the player he is today.

And that's wasn't Duncan that dropped 27 points on Kobe's ass in game 2either.


You guys are ing insane...there is absolutely no way you guys watched any playoffs before 2003. Kobe destroyed us, we would not have ever beaten the Lakers without Bruce Bowen and David Robinson to defend Kobe and Shaq.

You are guys are outta your ing trees if you think we would have.

And no, there was no one that could defend Kobe like Bowen and Shaq like Drob(not even then).

[Admiral]

I am sure both David and Tim would have done well if their eras were switched, because they are such versatile and complete players. We have been very blessed to have both as cornerstones of our franchise, and the fact that their careers overlapped by several seasons was a real treat.

What is sometimes frustrating, though, is to see fans - especially Spurs fans - fail to recognize what a great player David was. I love the fact that he is such a great guy, and I admire the fact that he let Tim be the go-to guy on offense starting in 1999, but unfortunately some people remember those things at the exclusion of David's basketball skills, and that is a real shame.

David really could play, and is one of the best centers ever. He dominated during a time when there were some great centers playing (much better than today!). I wish everyone recognized that - especially Spurs fans.

[whottt]

I'll tell you what really pisses me off...I've noticed, the same guys that think Duncan did it all by himself are the first ones to come in here and start ripping him when he's having a subpar playoffs(and prior to last season, that was always because he was being doubled and no one was breaking the doubles off).

[whottt]

It's like you guys think that Duncan being the best player on the 2003 team is some kind of insight.

When it's more like a no . Duncan has been the best player on the Spurs since he was drafted(although Parker is pushing him bigtime)...but don't sit here and ing tell me he played the same hand David did.

Don't tell me the talent surrounding David was equal.
Don't tell me the coaching was equal.
Don't tell me the organization was equal.

Don't tell me David Robinson was the reason the Spurs didn't win a championship.

And don't wave those rings in David's face...without him, not only would we not have those rings, we wouldn't have a ing team.

ing Asshats.

[EricB]

I am sure both David and Tim would have done well if their eras were switched, because they are such versatile and complete players. We have been very blessed to have both as cornerstones of our franchise, and the fact that their careers overlapped by several seasons was a real treat.

What is sometimes frustrating, though, is to see fans - especially Spurs fans - fail to recognize what a great player David was. I love the fact that he is such a great guy, and I admire the fact that he let Tim be the go-to guy on offense starting in 1999, but unfortunately some people remember those things at the exclusion of David's basketball skills, and that is a real shame.

David really could play, and is one of the best centers ever. He dominated during a time when there were some great centers playing (much better than today!). I wish everyone recognized that - especially Spurs fans.

One of the best posters of all time makes a rare appearance.

Good to see you admiral

He's as always 100% right..

[wekko368]

You can't gauge a roster by past and future accomplishments. You have to look at their merits during the year in question.

On the 2003 Spurs roster, there was only 1 HOF caliber player (Duncan). Robinson was very far removed from his dominance in the mid 90's, and Ginobili hadn't come close to being the player he is today.

And that's wasn't Duncan that dropped 27 points on Kobe's ass in game 2either.


You guys are ing insane...there is absolutely no way you guys watched any playoffs before 2003. Kobe destroyed us, we would not have ever beaten the Lakers without Bruce Bowen and David Robinson to defend Kobe and Shaq.

You are guys are outta your ing trees if you think we would have.

And no, there was no one that could defend Kobe like Bowen and Shaq like Drob(not even then).

Calm down. We all know what happened that series. I was simply pointing out a glaring error in your logic.

[Admiral]

One of the best posters of all time makes a rare appearance.

Good to see you admiral

He's as always 100% right..

Good to see you too, EricB AKA T Park num 9.

Today has been a great day.

[Duncan2177]

Duncan was and is capable of leading a team to the championship when he is the THE guy, as he has proved several times now. Robinson was a great player, but he's simply not in Tim's class in terms of leading a team to a le when he's the horse.

No disrespect to Robinson, who is a Top 50 player all-time.

But Tim Duncan is a Top 5 player all-time. Big difference.

Jordan
Kareem
Wilt
Magic
Tim

[whottt]

Calm down. We all know what happened that series. I was simply pointing out a glaring error in your logic.

There is no error in my logic. Tim Duncan had a of a lot better supporting casts than David did, and the one you are calling the weakest, is by far the strongest. And not just because of Tim Duncan...see 2001 and 2002 if you are still confused about this.

[wekko368]

There is no error in my logic. Tim Duncan had a of a lot better supporting casts than David did, and the one you are calling the weakest, is by far the strongest. And not just because of Tim Duncan...see 2001 and 2002 if you are still confused about this.

Whatever man. Anyone can scroll up and see that you refer to Tony Parker, Ginobili, and Robinson as a HOF supporting cast on the 2003 Spurs. The error in your logic is that you cannot judge a player by perceived future accomplishments.

[J.T.]

Go ahead...blame Manu, I ing dare you.

I'm not blaming him but if I ever meet Ginobili outside an NBA-sanctioned event, I'm going to ask him to give me a refund for the tickets I bought to that game.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

been a while since I've read a thread this entertaining.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I'm not blaming him but if I ever meet Ginobili outside an NBA-sanctioned event, I'm going to ask him to give me a refund for the tickets I bought to that game.

yeah, I bet you would

[whottt]

I'm not blaming him but if I ever meet Ginobili outside an NBA-sanctioned event, I'm going to ask him to give me a refund for the tickets I bought to that game.

The point I am making is that these guys say Robinson couldn't get it done, ignoring factors like his PG's lack of outside shot meant he had aa extra defender in every series they played together...

I don't want to hear about Manu's foul when Strickland's no-look pass to the goal post and Elliott being out of positon in 89 counts as David not being good enough to it done...

That's bull . Anyone can apply different standards to different players and make excuses for their guy and refuse to make similar ones for other players.

That's exactly what these s are doing it..and the fact that stupid posters like that get smackdowns(allowed by the Admins) on ST is why it is the best sports board on the net. If it was full of posters like them...it wouldn't be. It'd be another board full of idiots.


Fact.


BTW, sup JT?

[Vito Corleone]

My opinion is that we win a le in Duncan's first year, that year we were better than the Pistons and Blazers and easily could have beaten both of them. However, we never would have won anything else after that.

You see winning starts with ownership and back then we didn't have a owner committed to winning like we do now.

Not to mention once Larry Brown left San Antonio didn't have another good head coach until Pop took over. David and Tim might have carried us to another championship in 99 and maybe in 2003 but the fact is David was not the type of Player to run your offense through like Tim was so he probably couldn't have carried us like Tim did in 2005 and 2007.

[whottt]

I could see Duncan being a difference on the 89 team...but David did get a post game eventually.


Flipping it around...Amare and Nash wouldn't be compared to a Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili and David Robinson fast break. That would be insane.

And those great fast break teams that have big men that can defend...those are the great dynasties in NBA history. That's what the 60's Celtics were. That's the what the 80's Lakers were.

David Robinson wouldn't just be finishing the break either, he'd be leading it sometimes, just like he did then on teams with Avery Johnson and Rocket Rod Strickland.


And I've give my left nut to have Manu on any team David was on. Get ing serious.

Did you guys see what he did to a team of NBA All Stars with a group most of whom had never stepped foot on an NBA court at that time?

You guys just need to realize that Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker will both one day be in the HOF. David having either of them would have made a huge difference, because he never had a perimeter scoree that could take over a game. Ever. He only had an inside player that could do it(TC) for 2 years or so.

[holcs50]

LOL, this was the exact same thread I made when I joined, or it might've been on spursreport before I realized ST was better. Anyways, this question has been asked plenty of times, and it's a tough question because it's putting different times together and different teams and saying WHAT IF.

I decided to stop reading after whottts rants because though I tend to agree on the DR side for this argument there's no need for that , settle the f down, geez-us. It's a legitimate question, one no one will know. I would say if TD would've gone back and started in 89 he would've done similar to the drob teams-there just wasn't enough there to do much with imho.

Now if you put a rookie DR in at 97 with say a TD at 32 or so and I think the crew completely constructed the same since 97 would have more than 4. Just my personal opinion, but TD has benefited from teams overwhelmingly better than robinson had. I think the lakers battles would've been a lot closer-and more fun because we could really see shaq-robby in prime on big time stages, instead of an old robby vs shaq. Robby vs shaq battles from 92-96 were epic, and very even. I think roles reversed we win 04 and the fish shot is insignificant.

[kingmalaki]

Dikembe Mutombo in 1995 ring a bell?

Mutombo is not a elite big. He is an elite defender but not someone you have to even guard on the other end. He isn't a lock to make the HOF and if he does get in it may be due to his off the court efforts combined with what he did on the court.

Malone, Barkley and Hakeem all got the better of Robinson in the playoffs. He never came out ahead in these playoff matchups. His prime nutrider keeps blaming his teammates, as if that has something to do with him letting Hakeem on him or him putting up 11 pts in back to back games against Malone, or Barkley hitting winning J's in his eye.

David didn't have the greatest teammates, but they were good enough to get to the postseason with. Their play dipped in the postseason, but so did his. Whott fails to acknowledge that and yet blames everyone else. Robinson advances in 95 if he can stop his man from dropping 40 a night.

[JamStone]

I think perhaps some people are taking the topic a little too personally. I don't think it was the OP's intent (I could be wrong) to try to start a war between Duncan fans and Robinson fans. It was a simple question requiring a simple answer.

Take away the 1999 and 2003 les where both were on the team, how many les would the Spurs have won from 1987-97 with Duncan in his prime instead of Robinson and how many les would the Spurs have won from 2003-09 with Robinson in his prime?

I think the answer is probably zero for both parts of the question, although there's a chance that Duncan and the Spurs might have been able to outplay one of those Houston Rockets teams in 1994 or 1995. So, best case scenario, maybe 1 le for Duncan in the 1987-97 stretch during Jordan's le runs. I don't think Robinson would have led to any post 2003 les if he were the one in his prime, and moreover, the absence of Duncan may have allowed that Shaq-Kobe Lakers squad to stay together for a much longer stretch of les. But, again, without Duncan in the league, there's a chance that David Robinson and the Spurs find a way to get past a Shaq team and win a le somewhere especially assuming that both Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili contribute and ultimately develop the same way as players, so the answer is similarly "maybe" 1 le during that stretch, maybe 2005 again when Shaq and Kobe would have likely soured once again after perhaps 5 straight les.

[Das Texan]

Good to see you too, EricB AKA T Park num 9.

Today has been a great day.

Yesterday was a great day Admiral


Glad to see you make a rare appearance around here. Be good my friend.