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  1. #26
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Letting the core of productive value continue to be stripped away is basically a vote for the pauperization of Americans and the future dependency of the USA as a nation.

  2. #27
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    DarrinS is basically urging that multinational corporations remain free to strip the nation's wealth, and trample us all underfoot. Make way for progress.

  3. #28
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    Michelin = France

    Yokohama = Japan

    Pirelli = Italy

    Goodyear = USA

    Cooper always managed to compete with the big boys by being a quality tire for less $$$. Their niche got wiped out by the Chinese. The bottom line is MAYBE TIRES JUST OUGHT NOT BE SO DAMNED CHEAP! If we, as a country, feel it is right to burden our company's with minimum wage, hour, and other regulatory hurdles - and quite possibly, if "card check" passes, additional demands from reinvigorated unions; why must those companies ALSO be burdened with competing with foreign companies which have no such burdens upon them. By buying products, then from those companies, aren't we also saying those regulations and hurdles are, really, just feel-good bull ? That we LITERALLY want someone else to pay for laws we pass to make ourselves feel good?
    Not sure about tires, but all my cars (four) have been American. Though that's mostly been because I've liked those cars, and not out of some deep seated loyalty to American business.

  4. #29
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  5. #30
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Smoot-Hawley. Are you a johnny-one-note, doobs?

  6. #31
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    Smoot-Hawley. Are you a johnny-one-note, doobs?
    Are you? You're pro-protectionist arguments are growing tired.

    And you're so very wrong, to boot. I think it's helpful to remind everyone what happened last time the economy was really bad and we responded with protectionism.

  7. #32
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    A measured response to unfair trade practices by an unfree country doesn't even approach Smoot Hawley.

  8. #33
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    And the idea that we don't already protect domestic industry in a mul ude of ways is just wrong.

  9. #34
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Isn't our government supposed to protect US trade interests?

  10. #35
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    And the idea that we don't already protect domestic industry in a mul ude of ways is just wrong.
    Whoah, when did I say that?

  11. #36
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Whoah, when did I say that?
    You suggested case in point is equivalent to Smoot-Hawley. It isn't.

  12. #37
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    A measured response to unfair trade practices by an unfree country doesn't even approach Smoot Hawley.
    Really? Are you even remotely aware of the consequences of the US using the vague, catch-all section 421 of the Trade Act? Why do you think China is considering severe retaliation? Do you think that's a good thing?

  13. #38
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    Isn't our government supposed to protect US trade interests?
    Yep. Protectionism hurts both countries involved.

  14. #39
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    You suggested case in point is equivalent to Smoot-Hawley. It isn't.
    You said, "And the idea that we don't already protect domestic industry in a mul ude of ways is just wrong."

    What is that a response to?

  15. #40
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    Really? Are you even remotely aware of the consequences of the US using the vague, catch-all section 421 of the Trade Act? Why do you think China is considering severe retaliation? Do you think that's a good thing?
    Care to explain to the board why protectionism is bad?

  16. #41
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    So then, no trade policy at all would be preferable in your view? No distinction between free and unfree partners?

  17. #42
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    You said, "And the idea that we don't already protect domestic industry in a mul ude of ways is just wrong."

    What is that a response to?
    That there's a target-rich environment for you, and little reason to pick on what seems (to me, ok?) like a legit beef about China's predatory trade practices directly affecting us. What, we're supposed to lie back and take it, for the sake of economic efficiency and low, low prices?

  18. #43
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Come on. China creates lots of $8 an hour jobs with no health benefits for our nation's citizens at Wal-Mart, Target, and so on.

  19. #44
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Really? Are you even remotely aware of the consequences of the US using the vague, catch-all section 421 of the Trade Act? Why do you think China is considering severe retaliation? Do you think that's a good thing?
    If it fosters US independence from China, in the long run it could be. I won't pretend there's no downside. You seem to be arguing for China's upside, at our expense.

  20. #45
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Come on. China creates lots of $8 an hour jobs with no health benefits for our nation's citizens at Wal-Mart, Target, and so on.
    This is the upside. Economic efficiency trumps standard of living for Americans.

  21. #46
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    DarrinS is basically urging that multinational corporations remain free to strip the nation's wealth, and trample us all underfoot. Make way for progress.

    Meh, I think you're being a little dramatic. I'd rather have Americans doing the science and engineering and leave the fab to someone else.

  22. #47
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Basically, in the name of economic rationality, absolutist free traders like doobs are willing to see our own self-sufficiency and standard of living go to .

    , maybe they even want it.

  23. #48
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Can someone explain to me why a guy on an assembly line making widgets justifies $25/hour, medical benefits, and a pension?

  24. #49
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Basically, in the name of economic rationality, absolutist free traders like doobs are willing to see our own self-sufficiency and standard of living go to .

    , maybe they even want it.


    Actually, as things are produced at a lower cost by Asians, et. al., our standard of living rises.

    How ubiquitous are cell phones these days?

  25. #50
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Meh, I think you're being a little dramatic. I'd rather have Americans doing the science and engineering and leave the fab to someone else.
    Is this the case now? America isn't producing enough scientists and engineers to meet global demand. It's my understanding that this expertise is moving, has been moving, offshore for some time. India and China are the main markets for engineering talent these days.

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