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  1. #1
    Veteran InRareForm's Avatar
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  2. #2
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    It's only taken them a week to build that narrative.

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    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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  4. #4
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    Those that impute race into two word, "You lie," should look at their own racial biases. And, they only do it because the American public isn't as incensed over the break in decorum as they'd hoped. Had to find something to about.

    This has been a clever campaign by the Democrats to color this outburst as a racial matter. I hope Joe Wilson hits the House floor, wears the rebuke as a badge of honor, and calls the president a liar again.

    Saying people oppose this president because he's black is paranoid...

    I predict we'll all be racists for fifteen minutes.

  5. #5
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Saying people oppose this president because he's black is paranoid...
    It doesn't seem so far fetched to me.

    To be sure, there are plenty of legit reasons not to like Obama, and I expouse many of them. But I wouldn't be so quick to rule it out.

    The death of racism has been greatly exaggerated.

  6. #6
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    That said, I'll also say this: everybody is a damn racist.

  7. #7
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Joe Wilson, Jimmy Carter, Barack Obama, me, Yoni, everybody.

  8. #8
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    It doesn't seem so far fetched to me.

    To be sure, there are plenty of legit reasons not to like Obama, and I expouse many of them. But I wouldn't be so quick to rule it out.

    The death of racism has been greatly exaggerated.
    I don't rule out there are racists that don't like having a black president. But, they are marginalized and certainly, vastly inferior in numbers to the number of people that voted for Obama simply because he was black.

    Like you said, there are plenty of legitimate reasons for Joe Wilson to oppose Obama's health care reform plan without imputing racism without any evidence.

    And, it doesn't help your cause with people who find this assertion dubious that Joe Wilson was pretty much vindicated by the administration's and Congress's changes to the bill and plan, beginning the day after Wilson called him a liar.

  9. #9
    Veteran InRareForm's Avatar
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    It may not have been direct racism, but the racists sure loved it. And that is where the wrongdoing is regarding race. You just don't do that.

  10. #10
    Veteran David Bowie's Avatar
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    Carter is one of the most racist guys in politics himself.

  11. #11
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    It may not have been direct racism, but the racists sure loved it. And that is where the wrongdoing is regarding race. You just don't do that.
    Who cares what the racists love? I don't. Under that presumption, a black person could never be criticized for anything because, "the racists sure" will love it.

    I think the people imputing race into the opposition of Obama's agenda only see him as a black man. They refuse to recognize there may be legitimate concerns over the policies themselves.

    I think they are the racists because they cannot get past the president's race long enough to look at the issues legitimate critics are trying to discuss.

  12. #12
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    It may not have been direct racism, but the racists sure loved it. And that is where the wrongdoing is regarding race. You just don't do that.

  13. #13
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    From your article:

    South Carolina's former Democratic Party chairman said that he doesn't believe Wilson was motivated by racism, but said the outburst encouraged racist views.

    "I think Joe's conduct was asinine, but I think it would be asinineno matter what the color of the president," said Harpootlian, who has known Wilson for decades. "I don't think Joe's outburst was caused by President Obama being African-American. I think it was caused by no filter being between his brain and his mouth."
    And, as to the second part of the first paragraph. Like terrorists don't need an excuse to hate America, racists don't need an excuse to hate because of a person's race. This is no reason to stifle legitimate debate.

    I think Jimmy Carter owes Joe Wilson and apology.

  14. #14
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  15. #15
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    This is no reason to stifle legitimate debate.
    How does Jimmy Carter's personal opinion stifle anything?

    I think Jimmy Carter owes Joe Wilson and apology.
    For what, calling em like he sees em, just like Joe Wilson?

    Please.

    Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, Yoni.

  16. #16
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    How does Jimmy Carter's personal opinion stifle anything?
    By ascribing Wilson's actions -- born of a disagreement over policy -- to racism. That's how.

    For what, calling em like he sees em, just like Joe Wilson?

    Please.

    Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, Yoni.
    For what? For calling him a racist without any cause. At least Obama lied to earn the outburst from Joe Wilson.

  17. #17
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    One thing that's being under-reported is that Joe Wilson sat on the committee that defeated most of the enforcement and exclusion language that would have ensured illegal aliens were not covered under ObamaCare (HR3200).

    He knew this and, therefore, knew that Obama was lying.

  18. #18
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    By ascribing Wilson's actions -- born of a disagreement over policy -- to racism. That's how.
    This stifles speech how?

    For what? For calling him a racist without any cause. At least Obama lied to earn the outburst from Joe Wilson.
    You don't know what's in Joe Wilson's heart any better than Jimmy Carter. How can you rule it out?

    Saying that Jimmy Carter called him racist without any cause isn't fact, but speculation.

  19. #19
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    This stifles speech how?
    Well, what is the media now concentrating on? Joe Wilson's reason for calling Obama a liar or Jimmy Carter's "speculation" over why Joe Wilson called him one.

    You don't know what's in Joe Wilson's heart any better than Jimmy Carter. How can you rule it out?
    I'm betting that Democrat Party chair that's know him for 20 years knows better than Jimmy Carter.

    Saying that Jimmy Carter called him racist without any cause isn't fact, but speculation.
    What cause did he have; other than his own obsession with Obama's race causing him to think all opponents are so because of racism.

  20. #20
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Cheap appeals to authority and strawmen. I guess that's the best you can do.

    You go to the mattresses to defend Joe Wilson's right to speak his mind, but demand apologies from anyone who speaks ill of him.

    You're aware of how this looks, don't you?

  21. #21
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Well, what is the media now concentrating on? Joe Wilson's reason for calling Obama a liar or Jimmy Carter's "speculation" over why Joe Wilson called him one.
    This stifles speech how? Please be specific.

  22. #22
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    Cheap appeals to authority and strawmen. I guess that's the best you can do.

    You go to the mattresses to defend Joe Wilson's right to speak his mind, but demand apologies from anyone who speaks ill of him.

    You're aware of how this looks, don't you?
    It's that goose/gander thing more than it's my desire to have everyone apologize to Joe Wilson. Frankly I don't care if anyone apologizes to anyone. It's all pretty petty...but the Democrats have spent the week turning petty into another racial issue.

    I'm not even approaching "going to the mattress."

  23. #23
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    I'm not even approaching "going to the mattress."
    http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/159900.html

  24. #24
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    This stifles speech how? Please be specific.
    By failing to inform the public of critical information over which they should form their opinions.

    I think the NYTimes deliberately left out the Pimp-Ho information...

    I think your source deliberately left out the Obama remarks...

    And, I think I said it stifles legitimate debate. Conflating that to speech, in this context, is misunderstanding my point. People can't debate, as well, without certain germane information.

  25. #25
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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