Steve Nash or Dirk Nowitzki

[mavs>spurs2]

And you ought to justify what you say every once in a while...

(and yes, I now get the joke, you go around saying things like "2006 champions got" and "you fail" all the time... doesn't it get a little old? I mean, don't you get tired of it yourself?)

i mean you just fail at this forum. nothing personal

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

i mean you just fail at this forum. nothing personal

Yes, true. I actually research, apply reason and construct arguments, and that's not the NBA Forum way.

Don't worry, I'm not going to stick around. I'm only migrating temporarily during the offseason. I'll be largely confined to anywhere but here when the season begins anew.

Oh, and don't worry, I've been a forum denizen for 10 years. I've learned that taking things personally is far too stressful.

[mavs>spurs2]

Yes, true. I actually research, apply reason and construct arguments, and that's not the NBA Forum way.

Don't worry, I'm not going to stick around. I'm only migrating temporarily during the offseason. I'll be largely confined to anywhere but here when the season begins anew.

Oh, and don't worry, I've been a forum denizen for 10 years. I've learned that taking things personally is far too stressful.

now you get it!!! welcome aboard sir. the nba forum is pretty casual and more comedy than anything lots of times. we do have our moments where we get into some pretty good discussions though, don't get me wrong

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

now you get it!!! welcome aboard sir. the nba forum is pretty casual and more comedy than anything lots of times. we do have our moments where we get into some pretty good discussions though, don't get me wrong

I got it all along. I like to play the straight man.

[JustBlaze]

Is this a serious question? Dork by a mile.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

How about you guys learn to read? I said "young to the NBA", not "young", and no-one specified the time he left Dallas, which was before the 2004-05 season, not the 2003-04 season, which you should know being a Dallas fan. Cherrypicking makes you look like the arsehole, not me.

When Nash arrived in Dallas in 98-99 he was 25 and had played 2 years as a backup in Phoenix - he was "young to the NBA" in that he'd only played 2 years. Remember that PGs and centres often take 5+ years to mature fully in the NBA, and most NBA players peak in their late-20s.

Nash really matured into some semblance of his true NBA form in 2000-01 when he took over the reigns in Dallas and went for 15/7 with near 50-40-90 %s. The next year he went for 18/8. Back then he was playing with Mike Finley, a young Dirk, and not much else in terms of talent, which pretty well explains the lower assist numbers. By contrast, at Phoenix he has always played on talented teams with guys who can finish off his passes.

Further confirmation of the benefit of having great teams around him to help shoulder the load since he's been in Phoenix is that he's had 5 straight 50-40 seasons, and would have 5 straight 50-40-90 seasons but for shooting 0.887 in 04-05, and 0.899 (!) in 06-07.

As I already said in my post above, Nash is a true late-bloomer, but he's been pretty damned good since 2000-01, although the poor teams he played with in the early days in Dallas artificially constricted his numbers across the board. How else do you explain the difference given that he played an up-tempo style in both destinations?

Oh, and if you ers want to take potshots, fine, but if you know this board at all you should also know that I rarely air opinions I haven't thought through and researched. Disagree with me all you like, but stick the "re ed" calls on someone else.

How was someone drafted in 1996 "young to the NBA" in 2003 or 2004?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Robinson clearly was a more dominant player for a longer period of time.

Even though the two have nearly identical career averages?

[Amaso]

This is the Hakeem vs Duncan or Robinson argument. Many people pick Hakeem to be better than Duncan/Robinson, because Hakeem's peak was better.

Robinson and Duncan did it better for longer however.

lol, you think hakeem was just some borderline all-star for 10 years dont you

[DPG21920]

No, but Duncan and Robinson played better for longer portions of their careers and I am not just talking about averages. Hakeem was an unbelievable player, especially in his championship years, but I feel Duncan and Robinson played better for longer periods of time.

Robinson to a lesser extent than Duncan.

[dirk4mvp]

lol, you think hakeem was just some borderline all-star for 10 years dont you

That's spur fans M.O. Tear down another player to prop up their own.

[bostonguy]

Dirk

[DPG21920]

That's spur fans M.O. Tear down another player to prop up their own.

[vicphoenix13]

If it wasn't for Steve Nash, Dirk may not have lasted more than two years in the NBA. Nash helped Dirk adjust to North America when he had no friends to associate with.

[dirk4mvp]

I noticed you didn't argue with it.

[Ghazi]

88 posts without a re ed anti-Dirk comment from bballgirl25? Shocking, and wonderful

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

How was someone drafted in 1996 "young to the NBA" in 2003 or 2004?

Who said he was? He started in Dallas in 98-99. Again, LEARN TO READ.

[z0sa]

Who said he was? He started in Dallas in 98-99. Again, LEARN TO READ.

How about you guys learn to read? I said "young to the NBA", not "young",

i'm not talkin , being that I think its closer than mavfan has admitted, but what exactly is your point?

[Culburn369]

If it wasn't for Steve Nash, Dirk may not have lasted more than two years in the NBA. Nash helped Dirk adjust to North America when he had no friends to associate with.

Outstanding lodgment, vic.

[polysylab1k]

Okay, I'll admit that Dirk is not as bad a defender as Nash. Still doesn't change my mind, or the fact that you are an idiot for suggesting that Dirk has actually won something... what were you thinking???

There wouldn't be anything mentionable if the MVP trophy wasn't a remarkable achievement, but the an opposite viewpoint is quiet prevalent among the idiots that Dirk hasn't actually won anything. Dirk is a decent defender by any means even if he isn't perfect defensively, at least Dirk has never allowed Diop to play superstar-like in front of him. Dirk's remarkable skills for offense are so shining that some short-sighted imbeciles always overlook or intentionally degrade his fairly good works at defensive end, comparably Nash is a terrible defender and even at his finest, he is an ignorable piece of glass when it comes to defense. It's fair to say Nash is also an offensive elite but his terrible defense isn't something that his offensive work can make up for.

[Culburn369]

There wouldn't be anything mentionable if the MVP trophy wasn't a remarkable achievement

Please. It's a swell dust catcher, a functional door stop, a nifty pretty, but, that's it.

[da_suns_fan]

What a joke. Nash's legacy will far exceed Dirk's. Nash is alreay a top 10 pg of all time. You think anyone says that about Dirk?

Ten years from now what will people remember?

Nash was the "everyman" 2-time MVP and tough as nails (hitting multiple 3s with a busted face etc).

Dirk will always be remembered as a good shooting PF who choked against lesser teams.

PERIOD.

Im not surprised Texas is biased for Dirk (not to mention still bitter from so much Suns love from the media during 2005-2008). But you people are kidding yourselves.

[hater]

last time I checked, Nash did not lead his #1 seed team out of the playoffs in the 1st round.

[da_suns_fan]

last time I checked, Nash did not lead his #1 seed team out of the playoffs in the 1st round.

No kidding. As if Dirk could be remembered for anything besides choking in back to back years when Dallas was in its prime.

[sonic21]

What a joke. Nash's legacy will far exceed Dirk's. Nash is alreay a top 10 pg of all time. You think anyone says that about Dirk?

Dirk is top 10 PF of alltime. And stop listening sportcenter and espn.

[hater]

Dirk is top 10 PF of alltime. And stop listening sportcenter and espn.

barely


Duncan
Malone
Pet
Mchale
Barkley
KG
hayes
Rodman
debushere
dirk