Steve Nash or Dirk Nowitzki

[da_suns_fan]

I was 6. My point is, I remember just as much about that game as you do about Walter Davis when you were 6.


And I can say KJ was better than Nash because he's statistically superior in virtually every category, and this is a wild guess, but I'm going to assume he was a better defender than Nash. Nash being lucky enough to play in a stat-inflating system during a fluke 3 year period when he had horrible MVP compe ion doesn't make him better than KJ.

Again, you miss the point. I dont bring up Walter Davis cuz I was too young to form an opinion when he played. Thus, your comments of KJ dont hold a lot of weight since you were too young when he played.

Like I said, stick to the uniformed Nash smack.

[dickface]

I dont bring up Walter Davis cuz I was too young to form an opinion when he played.

And by that same token you never mention Wilt Chamberlain among the all-time greats. How could you? You never saw him play.

[da_suns_fan]

Doug Christie. owned.

Only Monos could possibly consider Doug Christie a major free agent/trade.

Oh I see. He only played seven games. Youre just being a jackass.

Between "the repeater" and "Doug Christie", your waving the proverbial white flag in every argument Monos.

[Goran Dragic]

Like I said, stick to the uniformed Nash smack.

I'd like to see Nash lead his team to the semi-finals of the FIBA tournament.

[Findog]

They werent? WHY NOT? They had the same roster in 2005 as they had in 2006, didnt they?

Uh, no.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2005.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2006.html

It's really not hard to look this stuff up.

What major trade/free-agent did the Mavs get in the summer of 2005?

Well, for starters, they played a full 82 games under Avery and had a full training camp and season to learn and implement his system, which emphasized defense and getting stops....quite different from the all offense/no defense style Nellie employed, which was similar to D'Antoni in Phoenix.

The Nellie/Avery team gave up 97 points a game. The Avery team gave up 93 a game, quite a bit stingier. Avery put the "D" back in Dallas.

So 2005 "doesnt count" in the Dirk vs. Nash debate?!!

The 05 Suns were better than the 05 Mavs. That's like saying Steve Nash is better than Kobe Bryant because they always beat the Lakers in the playoffs.

Remember Dirk crying at Terry for playing Nash for the two just so Nash could drain the game tying three in his face? Great game!

Also, didnt Marion (since Amare had fouled out) have like ten straight points running the same pick n roll play over and over again in overtime? No Stoudemire, no Joe Johnson, and Dirk STILL couldnt beat Nash!!! He had Marion, Q and that was it!!!

Wow, you sure are masturbating a lot over that series, and I can understand why. It's the only impressive thing the SSOL Suns ever did, beating a 58-win team in the playoffs. Beating the Grizz and the two LA teams just didn't have quite the same cache.

[Spencer Pratt]

Bros, Steve Nash is like the inest-est homey on Earth! He's my favorite player of all-time, he's tied with Kobe and Shaq and LeBron and Jordan and Magic! I'm a diehard Lakers/Suns/Cavs/Bulls fan!

[da_suns_fan_]

Between "the repeater" and "Doug Christie", your waving the proverbial white flag in every argument Monos.

If I knew the "repeater" game was going to bother you this much I wouldn't have done it.

[Goran Dragic]

Wow, you sure are masturbating a lot over that series, and I can understand why. It's the only impressive thing the SSOL Suns ever did, beating a 58-win team in the playoffs. Beating the Grizz and the two LA teams just didn't have quite the same cache.

Don't worry, the Goran "WHITE MAGIC" Dragic Suns will accomplish a lot more.

[Goran Dragic]

The 05 Suns were better than the 05 Mavs. That's like saying Steve Nash is better than Kobe Bryant because they always beat the Lakers in the playoffs.

Nash is more popular so....


White Magic > No-D-Steve > rapist

[Findog]

I mean, if I wanted to, I could make all sorts of pathetic excuses like dsf does for his beloved Suns losing to the Spurs in 2007:


....if only Jason Terry had checked Nash coming across the mid-court line, then the Mavs would've DEFINITELY gone on to beat Phoenix in Game 7.

[da_suns_fan]

Uh, no.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2005.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2006.html

It's really not hard to look this stuff up.





Well, for starters, they played a full 82 games under Avery and had a full training camp and season to learn and implement his system, which emphasized defense and getting stops....quite different from the all offense/no defense style Nellie employed, which was similar to D'Antoni in Phoenix.

The Nellie/Avery team gave up 97 points a game. The Avery team gave up 93 a game, quite a bit stingier. Avery put the "D" back in Dallas.



The 05 Suns were better than the 05 Mavs. That's like saying Steve Nash is better than Kobe Bryant because they always beat the Lakers in the playoffs.



Wow, you sure are masturbating a lot over that series, and I can understand why. It's the only impressive thing the SSOL Suns ever did, beating a 58-win team in the playoffs. Beating the Grizz and the two LA teams just didn't have quite the same cache.

So I just looked at your links. What am I suppose to be looking at? Howard? Hes on both teams. Same as Dirk, Dampier, Jerry Stackhouse, Jason Terry, Devin Harris and even Darrel Armstrong. Its pretty much the exact same thing.

And youre "Stretching" with your reasoning. Bottom line is Nash lost Amare, Kurt Thomas and even Raja Bell and it still took Dirk and the Mavs six games to beat the Suns. The Suns were starting Tim Thomas who they had just picked up six weeks before. Thats how freaking awesome Nash was. Give him your scrubs, he'll take the best teams to six games or more.

[monosylab1k]

Thats how freaking awesome Nash was. Give him your scrubs, he'll take the best teams to six games or more.

and then lose.

[da_suns_fan]

and then lose.

Heyyyyy! Monos has dropped that aliases.

btw - Whats that say about Dirk, who goes up against a depleted Suns team in 2005 and STILL loses!

Nash FTW.

[Findog]

So I just looked at your links. What am I suppose to be looking at? Howard? Hes on both teams. Same as Dirk, Dampier, Jerry Stackhouse, Jason Terry, Devin Harris and even Darrel Armstrong. Its pretty much the exact same thing.

About 80% of the same personnel...funny ain't it how the 2006 Mavs had Avery's system in place for a full year, put more of an emphasis on defense and came within 2 wins of a le, whereas before they couldn't make it out of the West with Nellie's approach? I'm sure that's a coincidence.

[Steve_Nash]

"Joe Johnson was hurt" "Amare was hurt" "Robert Horry is a meanie" "The NBA enforced something in the rulebook" "Shaq is here" "Terry Porter is here"

[resistanze]

All this being discussed is becoming more and more irrelevant.

Dirk > Nash. That is all.

[da_suns_fan]

About 80% of the same personnel...funny ain't it how the 2006 Mavs had Avery's system in place for a full year, put more of an emphasis on defense and came within 2 wins of a le, whereas before they couldn't make it out of the West with Nellie's approach? I'm sure that's a coincidence.

So the Nash beats Dirk in overtime of game 6 of the WCF, in Dallas, no Amare (fouled out), no Joe Johnson (broken skull), and only two decent teammates (Marion and Q) against a completely healthy Dallas team and you really want to argue that Dirk is better? You want to chalk it up to defensive philosophy that held Dirk back?

I mean, seriously. If Dirk is so great, how the did THAT happen?

I'll tell you why: Cuz Nash was freaking awesome!

[Findog]

So the Nash beats Dirk in overtime of game 6 of the WCF, in Dallas, no Amare (fouled out), no Joe Johnson (broken skull), and only two decent teammates (Marion and Q) against a completely healthy Dallas team and you really want to argue that Dirk is better? You want to chalk it up to defensive philosophy that held Dirk back?

I mean, seriously. If Dirk is so great, how the did THAT happen?

I'm arguing that the 06 Mavs were better than the 05 Mavs. If you want to rebut that, then go ahead and try. I'd like to see your reasoning.

[Findog]

All this being discussed is becoming more and more irrelevant.

Dirk > Nash. That is all.

I agree. You can lock the thread.

[da_suns_fan]

You know what the best part is? Its easy to win this argument cuz Im right. If Dirk was better he would have easily defeated Nash when Nash was playing with a depleted squad.

But in one case, he LOST, and in the other Dirk needed not one injury, not two injuries, not even THREE injuries. Lets not forget Raja Bell's bizzare calf injury that kept him out for two games and left him unable to run for the rest of the series!!! The Suns were starting James Jones and Tim Thomas and Nash still took Dirk and the Mavs to six games.

Nash kept fighting and wouldnt quit.

Compare this to Dirk who lost to lesser teams year after year.

Nash is the real life Rocky Balboa. Dirk gave European players a bad name. Nash FTW.

Geez Im good.

[resistanze]

I agree. You can lock the thread.

On second thought, DSF's comparison of Nash to Rocky Balboa may have changed my mind...

[resistanze]

The thing is though, Rocky probably would've gotten past the Conference Finals.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Nash is the real life Rocky Balboa.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...904050DAL.html

Rocky Balboa wouldn't let this happen.

[da_suns_fan]

Dont get too upset, Findog.

In the end, Im sad cuz its all over. The great teams of Marion, Stoudemire, Bell, KT and Joe Johnson are GONE forever and Im stuck with Channing ing Frye as a starter this year.

My team was gutted for financial flexibility. You know how much I wish we just had Boris Diaw and Raja Bell back? You know how worthless I think Jason Richardson is? Do you have any clue the malaise the ardent Suns fan base is in right now? We're hoping just to make the playoffs.

And as much as I hate it, at least your team made it to the finals. Do you know whats it like to watch the Lakers return to the finals when we never got to go? To feel "leap-frogged" in the span of half a season by half the teams in the league?

Maybe Im drinking too much.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Dont get too upset, Findog.

In the end, Im sad cuz its all over. The great teams of Marion, Stoudemire, Bell, KT and Joe Johnson are GONE forever and Im stuck with Channing ing Frye as a starter this year.

My team was gutted for financial flexibility. You know how much I wish we just had Boris Diaw and Raja Bell back? You know how worthless I think Jason Richardson is? Do you have any clue the malaise the ardent Suns fan base is in right now? We're hoping just to make the playoffs.

And as much as I hate it, at least your team made it to the finals. Do you know whats it like to watch the Lakers return to the finals when we never got to go? To feel "leap-frogged" in the span of half a season by half the teams in the league?

Maybe Im drinking too much.

The team's window was LOOOOOOOOONG shut by the time Doris and Raja got traded.