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  1. #51
    Knowledge Is Hassle Fpoonsie's Avatar
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    I can see those text books did their job your all ed up!
    This is the Evolutionist oldest trick in the book they try to cloud your mind with such big scientific words to make you feel your an idiot and therefore you will submit and believe in their cause.
    Hold on fella!

    Before you dive off your rickety evolution soap box humor us and gives us an insight on your vast education and what books your quoting from.

    you see we can be just as curious as you.
    How can it be fact if its never been proven, and how can it be proven if its never been done?

    I will see your and raise you a
    For someone who claims to be this well educated very intelligent individual you sure don't have a clue on how to use basic spell check do you?
    And you wanna call someone else out for THEIR lame "smack"?

    Ass.

  2. #52
    The Wemby Assembly z0sa's Avatar
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    It's funny how just a general science thread get turns into a talk about evolution from nutjobs.

    Note to the nutjobs. Earth is not 5,000 years old. Evolution and Creationism are not the same thing. Evolution has a lot of evidence and just about considered fact nowadays. In no way does evolution eliminate a creator, it just describes progression.

    Get your heads out of your ass.
    First off, creationism can involve evolution.

    Second, you've already put forth multiple clueless posts in the political forum, so maybe you should take your own advice and "get your head out of your ass."

    Third, hundreds of well to do scientists profess creationism, many specifically YE creationism. They are probably smarter and definitely more knowledgable than you. My point here is that your explicit statements like "earth is not [young]" or "evolution has a lot of evidence" are bogus. They are simply different interpretations of the same evidence. More or less evidence does not exist, just different interpretations.

  3. #53
    The Wemby Assembly z0sa's Avatar
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    If there is such a being he knows who I am and if he is that good, he should know Im not a bad person regardless of the fact that I dont visit his millions of houses on Sunday.
    Yeah. ing. Right. You're the definition of a hypocrite, and if there is a , you're headed straight there. Hope you're enjoying the flight, dumbass.

  4. #54
    #FreeGiuseppe BlackSwordsMan's Avatar
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    ^^ very chrisitan like

  5. #55
    The Wemby Assembly z0sa's Avatar
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    ^^ very chrisitan like
    you shouldn't assume things you have no clue about

  6. #56
    Knowledge Is Hassle Fpoonsie's Avatar
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    Yeah. ing. Right. You're the definition of a hypocrite, and if there is a , you're headed straight there. Hope you're enjoying the flight, dumbass.
    "Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers."

    Ephesians 4:29

    ...pot...kettle...and so forth...

  7. #57
    Knowledge Is Hassle Fpoonsie's Avatar
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    And before you call me out for assumptions, I'm simply offering advice on possibly avoiding the "h" word.

  8. #58
    Believe. OceaNus's Avatar
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    How can it be fact if its never been proven, and how can it be proven if its never been done?

    I will see your and raise you a
    It's called common sense. He was just stating that it would be faster to colonize mars than travel light years away to do it. Anyways, great find. Hope we can someday find an Earth twin.

  9. #59
    The Wemby Assembly z0sa's Avatar
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    "Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers."

    Ephesians 4:29

    ...pot...kettle...and so forth...
    When have I ever professed Christianity on these boards? Never. Just because I believe we are definitely created, and find it more likely that the earth is far younger than reckoned by most, doesn't mean I'm some Bible-thumping Christian fundamentalist. You'll never see me on some bent mission from god to convert all the lesser beings than myself. I don't believe in that nonsense.

    Second, I called him out because of his inhumane acts of torture he was recently bragging about. So "pot, kettle" is misused. If you find me to be a hypocrite for some reason, fine, but I don't go around telling people the gods would ultimate find me a good person right after bragging about torturing and murdering higher orders of animals that surely feel pain.

  10. #60
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    First off, creationism can involve evolution.
    No it can't

    Genesis clearly states the judeo-christian god created all things

  11. #61
    Believe. E-1101's Avatar
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    No it can't

    Genesis clearly states the judeo-christian god created all things

    Genesis 1:24-31

    24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

  12. #62
    Moss is Da Sauce! mouse's Avatar
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    It's called common sense.
    Well if your going to pull out the "common sense" card then this topic should not have been made, and we are wasting time replying to it.

    /thread

  13. #63
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    And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

  14. #64
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    21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good

    --------------------
    Genesis 2:21
    And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
    -----------


    so, judeo-christian religion believes man was instantenously/magically created in an instant after god's image.
    Last edited by MiamiHeat; 09-20-2009 at 04:37 PM.

  15. #65
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    so as we have shown, Creationism has no space for evolution.

  16. #66
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    Umm evolution has nothing to do with abiogenesis. So god COULD have created everything but also provided for a means for them to change, like evolution.

    Those who are saying "macro" evolution isn't possible because we've never witnessed are being somewhat silly. Of course we haven't, we haven't been aroundthat long. However, the fossil record shows a few examples of transitional fossils. And these fossils have been dated around the time the theory says they should be.

    Is evolution theory perfect? Of course not; there are holes. But instead of just trying to poke holes in evolution, maybe the critics would prefer to air an alternate theory. One that doesn't involve the ubiquitous "god" theory.

  17. #67
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    Umm evolution has nothing to do with abiogenesis. So god COULD have created everything but also provided for a means for them to change, like evolution.
    Wrong.

    The Judeo-Christian creation myth clearly states God made man in his own image, in an instant. Not through evolution. It doesn't matter if you want to argue that all other animals on this earth were created by God and went through evolution. HUMANS were made in an instant, by god, in his own image. That's creationism and it therefore cannot co-exist with evolution.

    If humans were created in an instant by god, evolution cannot be lumped in with creationism.

  18. #68
    Believe. E-1101's Avatar
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    well if your going to pull out the "common sense" card then this topic should not have been made, and we are wasting time replying to it.

    /thread
    +1

  19. #69
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    lol creationism.

  20. #70
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    Wrong.

    The Judeo-Christian creation myth clearly states God made man in his own image, in an instant. Not through evolution. It doesn't matter if you want to argue that all other animals on this earth were created by God and went through evolution. HUMANS were made in an instant, by god, in his own image. That's creationism and it therefore cannot co-exist with evolution.

    If humans were created in an instant by god, evolution cannot be lumped in with creationism.
    Eovlution is not abiogenesis. Evolution is merely the process of evolving. It does not explain life from non-life.

    So yes, it's possible to say that God made us in his image, but he also provided us the ability to evolve.

    It doesn't make a lot of sense, theologically speaking, but it's logically viable.

    Edit: Note: If you're assuming that we look as God does now, then yes, you'd be right. However, there's nothing in the Bible I know of that states that God looks exactly as we do now.

    Also, many people still believe in creationism, but they do not take the Bible literally. (Ie. they believe God created everything, but not exactly as the book says.)

  21. #71
    The cat won symple19's Avatar
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    Every time this troll shows up I listen to that song. Beasties are the

  22. #72
    The Wemby Assembly z0sa's Avatar
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    Those who are saying "macro" evolution isn't possible because we've never witnessed are being somewhat silly. Of course we haven't, we haven't been aroundthat long.
    Only as silly as those making the opposite statements like "macro evolution DOES happen because we see animals adapt to their environment NOW."

    Second, transitional fossils don't exist - They're simply different adaptations of living or extinct animals. Where's the evidence against this interpretation? There is none. it's just unpopular because it denotes evolution is a rather "silly" - and unprovable - assumption when contrasted with its 'evidence.'

    The most important fact evolution apologists overlook with incredible consistency is this: "microevolution" (actually adaptation) is completely pre-written into their DNA. No mutation or actual evolution is involved. How does something pre-written lead to code being re-written and extended?

  23. #73
    License to Lillard tlongII's Avatar
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    Only as silly as those making the opposite statements like "macro evolution DOES happen because we see animals adapt to their environment NOW."

    Second, transitional fossils don't exist - They're simply different adaptations of living or extinct animals. Where's the evidence against this interpretation? There is none. it's just unpopular because it denotes evolution is a rather "silly" - and unprovable - assumption when contrasted with its 'evidence.'

    The most important fact evolution apologists overlook with incredible consistency is this: "microevolution" (actually adaptation) is completely pre-written into their DNA. No mutation or actual evolution is involved. How does something pre-written lead to code being re-written and extended?
    That is completely untrue.

    There are now several known cases of species-to-species transitions that resulted in the first members of new higher taxa.

    Why do gaps exist? (or seem to exist)
    Ideally, of course, we would like to know each lineage right down to the species level, and have detailed species-to-species transitions linking every species in the lineage. But in practice, we get an uneven mix of the two, with only a few species-to-species transitions, and occasionally long time breaks in the lineage. Many laypeople even have the (incorrect) impression that the situation is even worse, and that there are no known transitions at all. Why are there still gaps? And why do many people think that there are even more gaps than there really are?

    Stratigraphic gaps
    The first and most major reason for gaps is "stratigraphic discontinuities", meaning that fossil-bearing strata are not at all continuous. There are often large time breaks from one stratum to the next, and there are even some times for which no fossil strata have been found. For instance, the Aalenian (mid-Jurassic) has shown no known tetrapod fossils anywhere in the world, and other stratigraphic stages in the Carboniferous, Jurassic, and Cretaceous have produced only a few mangled tetrapods. Most other strata have produced at least one fossil from between 50% and 100% of the vertebrate families that we know had already arisen by then (Benton, 1989) -- so the vertebrate record at the family level is only about 75% complete, and much less complete at the genus or species level. (One study estimated that we may have fossils from as little as 3% of the species that existed in the Eocene!) This, obviously, is the major reason for a break in a general lineage. To further complicate the picture, certain types of animals tend not to get fossilized -- terrestrial animals, small animals, fragile animals, and forest-dwellers are worst. And finally, fossils from very early times just don't survive the passage of eons very well, what with all the folding, crushing, and melting that goes on. Due to these facts of life and death, there will always be some major breaks in the fossil record.

    Species-to-species transitions are even harder to do ent. To demonstrate anything about how a species arose, whether it arose gradually or suddenly, you need exceptionally complete strata, with many dead animals buried under constant, rapid sedimentation. This is rare for terrestrial animals. Even the famous Clark's Fork (Wyoming) site, known for its fine Eocene mammal transitions, only has about one fossil per lineage about every 27,000 years. Luckily, this is enough to record most episodes of evolutionary change (provided that they occurred at Clark's Fork Basin and not somewhere else), though it misses the most rapid evolutionary bursts. In general, in order to do ent transitions between species, you specimens separated by only tens of thousands of years (e.g. every 20,000-80,000 years). If you have only one specimen for hundreds of thousands of years (e.g. every 500,000 years), you can usually determine the order of species, but not the transitions between species. If you have a specimen every million years, you can get the order of genera, but not which species were involved. And so on. These are rough estimates (from Gingerich, 1976, 1980) but should give an idea of the completeness required.

    Note that fossils separated by more than about a hundred thousand years cannot show anything about how a species arose. Think about it: there could have been a smooth transition, or the species could have appeared suddenly, but either way, if there aren't enough fossils, we can't tell which way it happened.

    Discovery of the fossils
    The second reason for gaps is that most fossils undoubtedly have not been found. Only two continents, Europe and North America, have been adequately surveyed for fossil-bearing strata. As the other continents are slowly surveyed, many formerly mysterious gaps are being filled (e.g., the long-missing rodent/lagomorph ancestors were recently found in Asia). Of course, even in known strata, the fossils may not be uncovered unless a roadcut or quarry is built (this is how we got most of our North American Devonian fish fossils), and may not be collected unless some truly dedicated researcher spends a long, nasty chunk of time out in the sun, and an even longer time in the lab sorting and analyzing the fossils. Here's one description of the work involved in finding early mammal fossils: "To be a successful sorter demands a rare combination of attributes: acute observation allied with the anatomical knowledge to recognise the mammalian teeth, even if they are broken or abraded, has to be combined with the enthusiasm and intellectual drive to keep at the boring and soul-destroying task of examining tens of thousands of unwanted fish teeth to eventually pick out the rare mammalian tooth. On an average one mammalian tooth is found per 200 kg of bone-bed." (Kermack, 1984.)

    Do enting a species-to-species transition is particularly grueling, as it requires collection and analysis of hundreds of specimens. Typically we must wait for some paleontologist to take it on the job of studying a certain taxon in a certain site in detail. Almost nobody did this sort of work before the mid-1970's, and even now only a small subset of researchers do it. For example, Phillip Gingerich was one of the first scientists to study species-species transitions, and it took him ten years to produce the first detailed studies of just two lineages (see part 2, primates and condylarths). In a (later) 1980 paper he said: "the detailed species level evolutionary patterns discussed here represent only six genera in an early Wasatchian fauna containing approximately 50 or more mammalian genera, most of which remain to be analyzed." [emphasis mine]

    Getting the word out
    There's a third, unexpected reason that transitions seem so little known. It's that even when they are found, they're not popularized. The only times a transitional fossil is noticed much is if it connects two noticably different groups (such as the "walking whale" fossil reported in 1993), or if illustrates something about the tempo and mode of evolution (such as Gingerich's work). Most transitional fossils are only mentioned in the primary literature, often buried in incredibly dense and tedious "skull & bones" papers utterly inaccessible to the general public. Later references to those papers usually collapse the known species-to-species sequences to the genus or family level. The two major college-level textbooks of vertebrate paleontology (Carroll 1988, and Colbert & Morales 1991) often don't even describe anything below the family level! And finally, many of the species-to-species transitions were described too recently to have made it into the books yet.

    Why don't paleontologists bother to popularize the detailed lineages and species-to-species transitions? Because it is thought to be unnecessary detail. For instance, it takes an entire book to describe the horse fossils even partially (e.g. MacFadden's "Fossil Horses"), so most authors just collapse the horse sequence to a series of genera. Paleontologists clearly consider the occurrence of evolution to be a settled question, so obvious as to be beyond rational dispute, so, they think, why waste valuable textbook space on such tedious detail?

  24. #74
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    tlongII with the smackdown of z0sa. doubt he shows his face again after that

  25. #75
    Moss is Da Sauce! mouse's Avatar
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    transitional fossils don't exist
    That is completely untrue.

    Show us all one then, oh great wise TlongII

    afterwards lets see your tight ass buy us all beer with your 7.5 trillion dollars you collect.

    http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/sh...-could-be.html

    October 10, 2008 12:11 PM
    $7.5 trillion for a 'transitional' fossil?
    Palaeontologists: this could be your lucky day. Turkish creationist Adnan Oktar has just offered ten trillion lira - a mouth-watering $7.5 trillion - to "anyone who produces a single intermediate-form fossil demonstrating evolution".
    Last edited by mouse; 09-21-2009 at 01:53 PM.

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