What if ACORN was a conservative group.

[Shastafarian]

When I have nothing to add to the discussion I find a stupid youtube to post!!! Hooray me!!!

[Wild Cobra]

Would you rather have a media NOT report on deaths due to contractor malfeasance? Would you rather them gloss that over? Do you think it would change the tone of the piece significantly if they shared the amount of deaths by shower in the US?

That's just it. I don't blame the contractors. Report the truth, not su ion, unless reported accurately as su ion.

The death count, I believe, is up to 17, and it's been happening for three years now. That's a bit much. They did say they were in the process of investigating the buildings I believe, which is a good step.

Four in a shower, four from otherwise improper grounds, and eight from exposed wiring. Where the 17th is?, I don't know. I thought there were 16 now.

How does this compare from electrical deaths per 100,000 here in the states? Can we at least have those numbers for comparison? All I could find so far is the annual death rate here is 15.2 per 100,000, but among construction workers. Do we hear these deaths reported when they occur? In five years, that makes the death rate of Americans in Iraq from electrocution at about 2.1 per 100,000.

But to just out of hand say, "Well, bad stuff happens, why does the media need to report it?" is silly. I mean, if you had relatives who bought a home, and one of them was electrocuted, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be so blase about the results.

I wouldn't like it, but I wouldn't want them used as an inflammatory reason to cause more dissent against this war either.

Don't you see, that's all these reports are doing.

How about we ban construction because they have a mush higher electrocution morality rate than the military? Why are there no pundits out there saying that?

[Wild Cobra]

WC seems to think the press should be subservient to power and peddle its fairytale war propaganda -- e.g.,Tillman, Jessica Lynch -- while complaisantly canning any story that might adversely affect public perceptions.

If the media reported all the small little good things going on as well, then you could accuse me of such things.

[Wild Cobra]

Now it's an older report, but consider this:

UNITED STATES
CONSUMER PRODUCT SAFETY COMMISSION
WASHINGTON, DC 20207
Memorandum

For 1998, the death rate with consumer products electrocutions in the USA was 0.74 per million. That is 7.4 per 100,000. This type of death is lower in Iraq than the 1998 USA statistic for all Iraqi related electrocutions.

[Shastafarian]

I like how you think all of this is relevant. Why can't you just say you're wrong? Why can't you admit you're defending them out of partisan instinct? It's not that hard. Oh and ACORN hasn't killed anybody. So they've still got that goin for 'em.

[Wild Cobra]

I like how you think all of this is relevant. Why can't you just say you're wrong? Why can't you admit you're defending them out of partisan instinct? It's not that hard. Oh and ACORN hasn't killed anybody. So they've still got that goin for 'em.

Because I'm not defending them out of partisan instinct. It is those using it as a reason not to be there that we are partisan.

If we take an average 150,000 soldiers over 5 years, that's 750,000 soldiers for 16 deaths. Yes, I'll count the contractor. Four of those deaths were consumer product related, or 0.53 one per 100,000. The 1998 US rate was more than a dozen timers that at 7.4 deaths per 100,000.

Now take all USA electrocutions in 1998, that is 20.4 per 100,000. US forces in Iraq are only 2.1 per 100,000 vs. the 20.4 1998 USA rate.

To report a story of deaths that are only about 10% of the USA rate is being partisan if you ask me.

Look in the mirror when you use that partisan word please. I am exposing the truth of partisans like you. Not being partisan about it.

[LnGrrrR]

That's just it. I don't blame the contractors. Report the truth, not su ion, unless reported accurately as su ion.

If the equipment was faulty... then I don't see how you can't blame the contractors.

How does this compare from electrical deaths per 100,000 here in the states? Can we at least have those numbers for comparison? All I could find so far is the annual death rate here is 15.2 per 100,000, but among construction workers. Do we hear these deaths reported when they occur? In five years, that makes the death rate of Americans in Iraq from electrocution at about 2.1 per 100,000.

I found stats for OSHA but didn't include them, because obviously occupational workers will suffer more accidents than people using their product.

I wouldn't like it, but I wouldn't want them used as an inflammatory reason to cause more dissent against this war either.

It's not dissent against the war; it's using the press to point out that some contracts are not being fulfilled as they should. It's what the press should be doing; pointing out negatives, and using the public to put pressure on officials to change what's wrong.

Don't you see, that's all these reports are doing.

How about we ban construction because they have a mush higher electrocution morality rate than the military? Why are there no pundits out there saying that?

Way to twist things around WC. Can you not see a difference between people working with electricity, and people using products that have electricity?

[LnGrrrR]

If the media reported all the small little good things going on as well, then you could accuse me of such things.

Since when has the media focused on all the good things?

People EXPECT good things. Do you think people will tune in to hear, "Tonight at 7, no little children died on the way to school today."? Of course not. Negative experiences ring much more strongly in the psyche.

Occasionally, they DO post something positive in the media, but rarely. I've seen a few articles about soldiers going out and giving vaccinations to local populations, feeding the kids candy and playing soccer with them.

However, you don't seem to mind when the media reports negative things about, say, our President, do you? I don't see you clamoring for all the small little good things that our President has been doing.

[LnGrrrR]

Now it's an older report, but consider this:

UNITED STATES
CONSUMER PRODUCT SAFETY COMMISSION
WASHINGTON, DC 20207
Memorandum

For 1998, the death rate with consumer products electrocutions in the USA was 0.74 per million. That is 7.4 per 100,000. This type of death is lower in Iraq than the 1998 USA statistic for all Iraqi related electrocutions.

Let's look closer at that report. It actually breaks down the electrocutions by accident.

I think we can leave out electrocutions by household items, like microwaves, extension cords, etc etc, because we're only looking at electrocutions by contractor equipment that could have/should have been prevented. It would seem the accident would fall into these categories: Household Wiring (25 deaths), Large Appliance (37 deaths), and Power Tools (27 deaths). Adding them up, we get 89 deaths. That's a more realistic number to work from... no point in adding gardening equipment or activity park related deaths that I can see.

That makes the amount 89, instead of 200. So instead of .74 as a rate, we should have something close to .33. (About 3 people per 100,000.)

Now, according to this website (http://usliberals.about.com/od/homel...raqNumbers.htm) there are 130,000 troops in Iraq.

So, according to this, we're about at the right rate for the US.

Given this, it does seem that we can expect to have a few electrical deaths overseas, and it probably is being sensationalized by the media without comparison to average deaths.

I think the electrocutions in the shower are given the most play, due to the sensational aspect of it. One expects soldiers to die on the battlefield, not in a shower where they're vulnerable.

I still think it's good to take notice of deaths if they are due to faulty contractor equipment/work, but I will note that the number of deaths does seem consistent with national averages, so it's a bit sensational to throw numbers out there without reference.

[Winehole23]

If the media reported all the small little good things going on as well, then you could accuse me of such things.

It did more than that -- it reported on nonexistent good things, like the fake Silver Star Tillman won for his friendly fire death, and the fake rescue of Private Lynch.

[Shastafarian]

Because I'm not defending them out of partisan instinct.

Yes you are.

It is those using it as a reason not to be there that we are partisan.

Irrelevant

If we take an average 150,000 soldiers over 5 years, that's 750,000 soldiers for 16 deaths. Yes, I'll count the contractor. Four of those deaths were consumer product related, or 0.53 one per 100,000. The 1998 US rate was more than a dozen timers that at 7.4 deaths per 100,000.

Now take all USA electrocutions in 1998, that is 20.4 per 100,000. US forces in Iraq are only 2.1 per 100,000 vs. the 20.4 1998 USA rate.

I don't care how many statistics you show. You're still defending a company that was RESPONSIBLE for the deaths of 16 people. ACORN has been responsible for deaths of 0 people.

To report a story of deaths that are only about 10% of the USA rate is being partisan if you ask me.

You and spursncowboys don't have a good grasp on the term "news" do you?

Look in the mirror when you use that partisan word please. I am exposing the truth of partisans like you. Not being partisan about it.