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Read the OP,
I said if anything were to happen it would be close to the deadline.
So...... none of our aquisitions have played a minute yet and you're of the opinion that we need more upgrades?
I get the sense that everyone wants the to see the Spurs with starter caliber players from 1 to 12. Not happening. I don't see any more deals before the beginning of the season.
Read the OP,
I said if anything were to happen it would be close to the deadline.
This whole trade for Jax or Nocioni thing has gone WAY TO FAR. Does anyone seriously think that it's a good idea to lock in $30 Million+ (Manu 10, Jefferson 14, Noc/SJAX 6+, and 2 other players...), into the two easiest to fill spots (SF,SG) on the floor?
Also, by some measure, SJAX and NOCIONI are some of the most overpaid players in the league. I won't say that David Berri's Win's Produced methodology is perfect (or even definate), but an average player produces as WP/48 of 0.1.
SJAX in 08/09 0.049. In 07/08 -0.014. In 06/07 -0.001. In 05/06 0.038 (for his time with GS. He was worse when playing with Indiana).
NOCIONI in (at the midpoint of ) 08/09 -0.067. In 07/08 -0.027. In 06/07 0.096. In 05/06 0.146
Either of them worth $7 million a year? Doesn't look like it.
I'm with you. I don't see the Spurs taking on another big contract. Especially not at SG/SF. Other than looking to dump Finley or Bonner to save some lux tax money it's highly unlikely the Spurs will make a trade.
No more trades happening until the deadline. Book it.
Originally Posted by mountainballer
I assume you never ever have seen him play. he can do a lot of things. dribble? no!?
What I meant by breaking down the defense off the dribble was when the defense closes out hard on shooters. ( Something the elite teams do). When teams would close out hard on Bowen/Mason/ Finley and make them put it on the floor thats when we'd have problems scoring. After plays break down and when the ball rotates to the open shooter, good teams with good rotations are typically on cue with their defensive rotations and tend to be there to contest the shooter on time by running out. Nocioni can break down the defense when this happens a lot more effectively than Mason/ Bowen/ Finley because he has the ability to finish around the basket in multiple ways after one or two hard dribbles . That's what I meant by creating off the dribble because that would obviously be his role offensively ( spot up shooting and creating when teams run out hard). Obviously you were not aware of that because you thought of creating off the dribble meant crossing someone over in an isolation play which doesn't correlate to what his role would be.
Originally Posted by mountainballer
btw. interchangeable. yes and no. Hedo and Sjax are not the best examples to prove this, they are both versatile and can handle the ball. there are quite a lot of SFs, who can defend the other teams SG, but would be a liability on offense because of their lack of ball handling skills. and you wouldn't want a SG like Mason defend the other teams SF (like Melo or Artest), would you?
Stephen Jackson wasn't a good ball-handler by any means. Your wrong there. You need your SG to be effective in pick and roll opportunities and be effective in a spot up shooting role especially with an interior presense. You don't have to be Rafer Alston to be effective in the pick and roll. And I don't like Mason guarding a lot of wings it's not just Lebron/ Artest/ Melo but also Kobe, Joe Johnson, Dwayne Wade, Jason Richardson, OJ Mayo to name of few of your shooting guards. But having two wings that have height/ length to contest shots effectively can be interchangable on the defensive end whether its SG or SF position. They can be equally interchangable on the offensive end as well. IMO. The shooting guard position on our team will not be in charge of creating for others besides for Manu. In other words Jefferson can do what Mason/ Finley/ Bogans ( the quote un quote SG's) does offensively.
yes mountainballer I want your rebuttal.
Last edited by MaNu4Tres; 10-03-2009 at 04:09 AM.
Some love SJax and then Some love Nocioni ( I know I'm a big fan of his ). However the solution to the problem is pretty simple his name is Boris Diaw and I believe he is making $9million a year. Get him and then throw in a tall 7 footer ( Ok fine, Maybe not Diop but someone thats a C and thats big ). I dont know if wecan get him cause of the price. Everything really depends on this haislip guy. He is 6-10 and athletic. If he can play 4 and Duncan play 5 it would kinda be small ball. Then if he can play 3, cause of his outside shot ( hopefully shoots Bonners lights out ) then will have that SF/PF player that are rare to find in the NBA. And the Center Situation? well we just need to get one, no way around it. Either by trade or by signing. Looking at who is available we'll probably have to make a trade. I havent seen anybody talking about Center on this thread but that should be our #1 concern ( Protecting the Rim ) Remember what happened when we tried to make do with what we had ( 1st round lost to Dallas 4-1 )
Pop said recently he's quite pleased with the depth on the coming squad compared to last year.
Games like last night really make you realize how important the quality of the 3rd spots in the rotation are at the wing and at the post.
Right now Bonner, Mason, Bogans ain't going to cut it Pop. If they continue to be our main unit off the bench, it's going to be another long summer.
I could've swore I posted in this thread . . .
Great OP and it's been a concern of mine all year as well; Salmons sure would've been nice.
But even if I was worried about they're lack of quality in the wing past Manu and RJ (the latter of which I wasn't a proponent of -- never have I wanted to be more wrong), I didn't see the utter nosedive coming from Mason. I figured he'd at least maintain in his second year and be a decent one-dimensional player; you had to figure the game would become easier for him with Manu back and more overall talent on the floor.
But Mason, along with Bogans (He beat out Hairston, don't ya know?), have proven, at this juncture, to be players suited for the end of the bench (if even employed). And as big a fan as I am and have been of George, he's not physically equipped to meet the demands of a stopper in this NBA. He's simply too small.
Ideally you wanted a legitimate Bowen replacement (comparable size, ability and skill set) but seeing as there wasn't a fit out there (Well, Ariza would've been pretty decent but he only became available after they traded for ... yeah . . .), they needed to just get an overall better player. They needed John Salmons. We knew it, the Spurs knew it. ... Unfortunately, they just couldn't get it done.
I thought this team had the potential to meet the Lakers in the WCF if they could stay healthy and come together (and maybe they could have had the season not played out as it did) but a stopper/better overall player and/or (preferably and) a clear-cut number 2 big was what was needed to put them over the top; 'Dyess is, and was, suited to be the first big off the bench.
It is what it is, though. (A fitting way to end this post. ... Words of the void.)
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