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  1. #126
    Forum Official Personal Life Coach BacktoBasics's Avatar
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    Can we talk about what's going on in Montana?

    Tuesday, September 29, 2009

    A private security force whose biggest role is helping the U.S. government to “combat terrorism” is now patrolling the streets of a town in Montana, acting as law enforcement but accountable to nobody and operating completely outside the limitations of the U.S. cons ution in a chilling throwback to the brownshirts of Nazi Germany.

    The American Police Force organization is a paramilitary unit that “provides surveillance, investigative, and military services across the world,” according to its website, which shows men dressed in military fatigues carrying machine guns.

    “As part of our mission, APF plays a critical role in helping the U.S. government meet vital homeland security and national defense needs. Within the last 5 years the United States has been far and away our #1 client. Technologies, programs, and services performed by APF have played a very important role in U.S. military and civilian efforts to protect our homeland and combat terrorism,” the website states.
    I checked out their website. Pretty scary .

    http://www.americanpolicegroup.com/

    you might need to hit the refresh a few times to fully view it.

  2. #127
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    looks like CNN wrote their own article on the find.

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science...ton/index.html

    Oldest human skeleton offers new clues to evolution

    (CNN) -- The oldest-known hominid skeleton was a 4-foot-tall female who walked upright more than 4 million years ago and offers new clues to how humans may have evolved, scientists say.



    Scientists believe that the fossilized remains, which were discovered in 1994 in Ethiopia and studied for years by an international team of researchers, support beliefs that humans and chimpanzees evolved separately from a common ancestor.

    "This is not an ordinary fossil. It's not a chimp. It's not a human. It shows us what we used to be," said project co-director Tim White, a paleontologist at the University of California, Berkeley.

    Ardipithecus ramidus, nicknamed "Ardi," is a hominid species that lived 4.4 million years ago in what is now Aramis, Ethiopia. That makes Ardi more than a million years older than the celebrated Lucy, the partial ape-human skeleton found in Africa in 1974.

    Ardi's 125-piece skeleton includes the skull, teeth, pelvis, hands and feet bones. Scientists say the data collected from Ardi's bone fragments over the past 17 years push back the story of human evolution further than previously believed.

    "In fact, what Ardipithecus tells us is that we as humans have been evolving to what we are today for at least 6 million years," C. Owen Lovejoy, an evolutionary biologist at Kent State University and project anatomist, said Thursday.

    Analysis of Ardi's skeleton reveals that she weighed about 110 pounds, had very long arms and fingers, and possessed an opposable big toe that would have helped her grasp branches while moving through trees.

    Ardi's brain was believed to be the size of a chimp's, but she also had many human-like features, such as the ability to walk upright on two legs. Her "all-purpose type" teeth indicate that she probably ate a combination of plants, fruits and small mammals, scientists say.

    "The anatomy behind this behavioral combination is very unexpected and is certain to cause considerable rethinking of not only our evolutionary past, but also that of our living relatives: the great apes," said Alan Walker, professor of biological anthropology at Pennsylvania State University.

    Many scientists hypothesize that humans took a different evolutionary trajectory from those of chimpanzees, bonobos and gorillas. Ardi's findings help challenge earlier beliefs that humans evolved from chimpanzees, their closest genetic relatives, scientists say.

    Researchers are still trying to pinpoint when the two lineages -- chimps and humans -- split from their common ancestor.

    Digging up the past has not been easy.

    Scientists stumbled upon the Ardipithecus fossil in 1994 when a graduate student found a single upper molar tooth. The rest of Ardi's fossilized bones, sandwiched between layers of volcanic rock, took three years to be recovered and many more to be analyzed.

    "In many ways, the discovery of Ardipithecus has been like a marathon," White said.

    "Ardipithecus ramidus and its prevailing anatomy revolutionize the way most of us understood the earlier part of our evolutionary history," said team member Yohannes Haile-Selassie, paleontologist at the Cleveland Museum of Natural History.

    The Ardi findings are the work of 47 paleontologists and geologists representing 10 countries. The results will be published Friday in 11 articles in a special edition of the journal Science.

    Until now, Australopithecus, nicknamed "Lucy," was the oldest fossil studied by scientists seeking to explain human evolution. Lucy is believed to have lived about 3.2 million years ago in what is now Ethiopia.

    Many scientists credit Ethiopia with taking the lead in helping the world better understand the origins of humans.

    "This finding points to a deeper sense of our [humans'] interconnectedness," Samuel Assefa, Ethiopian ambassador to the United States, said Thursday. "We are all Ethiopians at heart."

    Ardi's skeleton resides in the National Museum of Ethiopia in Addis Ababa.

  3. #128
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    Transitional skeleton is found and suddenly this place gets quiet? WTF?

  4. #129
    Forum Official Personal Life Coach BacktoBasics's Avatar
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    Transitional skeleton is found and suddenly this place gets quiet? WTF?
    It doesn't matter what they find. Its all a ruse. The DNA isn't magically spliced so on and so on.

  5. #130
    LMAO koriwhat's Avatar
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    Transitional skeleton is found and suddenly this place gets quiet? WTF?
    didn't want to say it but... i told ya so!

  6. #131
    Forum Official Personal Life Coach BacktoBasics's Avatar
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    Analysis of Ardi's skeleton reveals that she weighed about 110 pounds, had very long arms and fingers, and possessed an opposable big toe that would have helped her grasp branches while moving through trees.

    Ardi's brain was believed to be the size of a chimp's, but she also had many human-like features, such as the ability to walk upright on two legs. Her "all-purpose type" teeth indicate that she probably ate a combination of plants, fruits and small mammals, scientists say.
    Amazing for only being about a thousand years old.

  7. #132
    bandwagon hater
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    B2B, you should read the original link I posted from the AP. It has a lot more info than the CNN article. Post #121

  8. #133
    Forum Official Personal Life Coach BacktoBasics's Avatar
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    B2B, you should read the original link I posted from the AP. It has a lot more info than the CNN article. Post #121
    I read it. I think its an amazing find. I was going to post it when I first read the article but got distracted then you beat me back to the punch.

    These guys, no matter what you show them don't believe in true transitional fossils. They consider it to be adaptation over evolution on a grander scale.

    I was being sarcastic but I really do suppose that the members here on the forum disputing these kind of findings are expecting some type of spliced DNA as proof. they'd find a way to turn a cheek to even that I'm sure.

  9. #134
    Believe. Fabbs's Avatar
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    looks like CNN wrote their own article on the find.

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science...ton/index.html

    Oldest human skeleton offers new clues to evolution

    (CNN) -- The oldest-known hominid skeleton was a 4-foot-tall female who walked upright more than 4 million years ago and offers new clues to how humans may have evolved, scientists say.

    These few bones took researchers 5 years to collect, and came from 5 different locations! And so, from a fossilized toe, a piece of jawbone, a finger, arm bones, a clavicle, and a few teeth we have this incredible “ape-man” telling us “how apes became human.”

    Prominently displayed in the center of page 59 of the Time article is a tiny fragment of a toe bone. Lemonick and Dorfman wrote: “This toe bone proves the creature walked on two legs.” Amazing, is it not, what one can discern from a single toe bone! The human foot contains 26 individual bones, (see Netter, 1994, p. 492), and yet evolutionary scientists claim that they can distinguish walking characteristics from just a single bone?
    http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2060

    ????

  10. #135
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    Not to bust your monkey loving bubbles but until mouse gets back and resumes kicking your Darwin worshiping ass's I may remind you that Lug nuts from a Chevy can fit a Pontiac that doesn't mean they are the same car or came from the same source.


  11. #136
    Believe. Fabbs's Avatar
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    Not to bust your monkey loving bubbles but until mouse gets back and resumes kicking your Darwin worshiping ass's I may remind you that Lug nuts from a Chevy can fit a Pontiac that doesn't mean they are the same car or came from the same source.

    No Alex, you need to find where a lug nut was found in an old field, have a mechanical engineer draw in the entire rest of a car and say "said cars remnants were found in old field!"

  12. #137
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    Not to bust your monkey loving bubbles but until mouse gets back and resumes kicking your Darwin worshiping ass's I may remind you that Lug nuts from a Chevy can fit a Pontiac that doesn't mean they are the same car or came from the same source.

    Im sure your aware that Chevy and Pontiac are both under the same brand known as GM and have for a long time had interchangable parts.

    Thanks for proving the point of evolution in that simple comparison. GM was the source, chevy and pontiac evolved differently from that same source and what do you know? They are practically interchangable!!

    These few bones took researchers 5 years to collect, and came from 5 different locations! And so, from a fossilized toe, a piece of jawbone, a finger, arm bones, a clavicle, and a few teeth we have this incredible “ape-man” telling us “how apes became human.”

    Prominently displayed in the center of page 59 of the Time article is a tiny fragment of a toe bone. Lemonick and Dorfman wrote: “This toe bone proves the creature walked on two legs.” Amazing, is it not, what one can discern from a single toe bone! The human foot contains 26 individual bones, (see Netter, 1994, p. 492), and yet evolutionary scientists claim that they can distinguish walking characteristics from just a single bone?
    129 bones is a few? and practically an entire skull showing the teeth in an ape like creature practically similar to a humans?

    They didnt tell it could walk from a toe btw, the pelvis and hip showed Gluteal muscles where positioned in such a way that allows you, me and this past creature to have the ability to walk upright. Without them, we cant walk upright.

    I degress, B2B had it right, no matter what evidence is put fourth people will still find a way to ignore it.

  13. #138
    Believe. Fabbs's Avatar
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    129 bones is a few? and practically an entire skull showing the teeth in an ape like creature practically similar to a humans?
    Now its up to 129? Has this been put to the test? From how many different locations where the 129 bones found? Over how many years?

    If you find some huge spot where a pack of chimps were wiped out years ago maybe with enough time and jigsaw puzzle experience you could reconstruct anything.

  14. #139
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    Now its up to 129? Has this been put to the test? From how many different locations where the 129 bones found? Over how many years?

    If you find some huge spot where a pack of chimps were wiped out years ago maybe with enough time and jigsaw puzzle experience you could reconstruct anything.
    Yes. Read the article, perhaps?

    From the Washington Post:

    On Nov. 5, 1994, Haile-Selassie, then a Berkeley graduate student and now a curator at the Cleveland Museum of Natural History, found two finger bones. Further digging turned up scraps of a pelvis, feet, hands, chips from a skull. By the end of three years of digging, the scientists realized they'd found a paleontological treasure, a partial skeleton, broken up and ravaged by time. This was Ardi.
    Not in different locations.

    As far as it taking so long to study, I would rather them take the time to make sure they got it right then announce it back in 1994. If they had done that, I would have agreed with you. The origin of the human species via evolution from earlier primates is beyond scientific dispute.
    Last edited by phyzik; 10-01-2009 at 06:38 PM.

  15. #140
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    Who the are you people to say whether or not an omniscient being, who obviously functions on a much higher level than you, exists or not?

    Just because your life sucks and you're pissed off doesn't mean we all just came from an explosion which happened out of nothingness. Know it alls are ing obnoxious. No one can prove or disprove the existence of God. Re ed ing argument

  16. #141
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    Who the are you people to say whether or not an omniscient being, who obviously functions on a much higher level than you, exists or not?

    Just because your life sucks and you're pissed off doesn't mean we all just came from an explosion which happened out of nothingness. Know it alls are ing obnoxious. No one can prove or disprove the existence of God. Re ed ing argument
    I never tried to dispute the existance of a higher being. Just the fact that humans evolved. The two are not mutually exclusive. While I personally may not believe it, it is within the realm of possibility that we evolved through a higher beings assistance.... Improvements if you will.

    My beef doesnt fall on the fact or fiction of a higher being. My beef is with the idea of religion itself, which is undisputedly created by man and not a higher being. Therefore religion is flawed but yet people embrace it as if it's the final answer and refuse to think "what if?"

    Also, just an FYI, my life is far from sucking. I've got my own house thats paid off, a badass car, great friends and a job I love. I recently took up hiking this past week and have been kayaking for a year (not constantly ). While I cant speak for B2B's situation in life, or anyone else for that matter, I can speak about mine and I trully am happy right now. Of course, nothings ever perfect, life has its challenges, but nothing thats making me bitter or anything like that.

    seriously though Fabbs, what source did you see they got the fossils from 5 different locations (for this specific find)? I want to read it, Im not beyond changing my thoughts, perhaps the sources I've looked at just didnt have the full info but what I've read so far (which was posted today) is that it was at a single location.
    Last edited by phyzik; 10-01-2009 at 07:08 PM.

  17. #142
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    Im sure your aware that Chevy and Pontiac are both under the same brand known as GM and have for a long time had interchangable parts.
    Just like Ape and Man are from earth.

    Thanks for proving the point of evolution in that simple comparison. GM was the source, chevy and pontiac evolved differently from that same source and what do you know? They are practically interchangable!!
    No thank you for proving my point both cars had the same Intelligent designer.

  18. #143
    Believe. Alex Jones's Avatar
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    I never tried to dispute the existance of a higher being.
    My beef doesnt fall on the fact or fiction of a higher being. My beef is with the idea of religion itself, which is undisputedly created by man and not a higher being.
    How can you speak for the Chinese and their Buddha? How do you know they never saw a God or a so called higher being? What happens if you ever see a higher being how are you going explain how you made life miserable for others who worshiped this higher being through religion?


    Why can't you let others believe in their own theory of how we came about? Why do you and your Banana eating friends have to post links of some old bones every time the topics pops up? It seems to me your beliefs are fragile and you need some sort of confirmation to justify your life of Sin as you look to ease your conscious of a life w/o God and knowing your soul is headed for bad times ahead.

  19. #144
    Believe. Fabbs's Avatar
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    seriously though Fabbs, what source did you see they got the fossils from 5 different locations (for this specific find)? I want to read it, Im not beyond changing my thoughts, perhaps the sources I've looked at just didnt have the full info but what I've read so far (which was posted today) is that it was at a single location.
    The same link i posted http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2060 Brad Harrub and also here http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/127 , which i do not know if that source is absolutely true or not. Nor do i say the "129 bones found" is false or not. But with pro evo previous scientists Piltdown Man, Lucy etc being exposed as fraud I'm asking that the 129 claim be put to the test.

  20. #145
    JUST 4 TONIGHT DannyT's Avatar
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    god is real, religion is fake.

    Who cares where we came from, we should all be concerned where we're going after 2012.

  21. #146
    Believe. E-1101's Avatar
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    dannyT has the right at ude. I wonder at the end if there is a God how many of you will be PM'ing Angel_Luv for advice?

  22. #147
    Hell ain't a bad place Satan's Avatar
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    dannyT has the right at ude. I wonder at the end if there is a God how many of you will be PM'ing Angel_Luv for advice?

    I'll be seeing DannyT soon enough as well as most you posting in this thread. If you think B2B has to about now....just wait.

  23. #148
    Forum Official Personal Life Coach BacktoBasics's Avatar
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    I don't think anybody in this thread disputed the idea that there might be a higher power. Its a pointless unprovable argument on both sides. Most of just argue against your beliefs in modern day religion.

    What really screams desperation is the fact that you people can't objectively look at a find like this and be compelled to seek answers/information/knowledge of our ancestry. You go right into debunking whatever it is that pops up. You can hate science for its theories all you want but the fact of the matter is that society as a whole has advanced exponentially in the last 200 years. Specifically from the work of the very people you feel compelled to call liars. How is it possible to perform intricate surgeries, physical therapy or rehabilitation without a complex understanding of the human body and all its muscle and bone work.

    It really shows how utterly stupid and ignorant you must be to dispel the idea of putting together a skeleton to discern its primal patterns but be totally aware of our ability to say....perform a heart transplant or reattach a limb...correct bad vision, open up the human mind and create images on a computer screen from a subjects brainwaves.

    I serious can't stand you people and not just for your beliefs. Your ability to ignore historical findings in lieu of pushing your agenda is a sad state of what religion has really done to you people.

  24. #149
    Beware of the Voices Bigzax's Avatar
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    slow day again huh...

  25. #150
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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    I don't think anybody in this thread disputed the idea that there might be a higher power. Its a pointless unprovable argument on both sides. Most of just argue against your beliefs in modern day religion.

    What really screams desperation is the fact that you people can't objectively look at a find like this and be compelled to seek answers/information/knowledge of our ancestry. You go right into debunking whatever it is that pops up. You can hate science for its theories all you want but the fact of the matter is that society as a whole has advanced exponentially in the last 200 years. Specifically from the work of the very people you feel compelled to call liars. How is it possible to perform intricate surgeries, physical therapy or rehabilitation without a complex understanding of the human body and all its muscle and bone work.

    It really shows how utterly stupid and ignorant you must be to dispel the idea of putting together a skeleton to discern its primal patterns but be totally aware of our ability to say....perform a heart transplant or reattach a limb...correct bad vision, open up the human mind and create images on a computer screen from a subjects brainwaves.

    I serious can't stand you people and not just for your beliefs. Your ability to ignore historical findings in lieu of pushing your agenda is a sad state of what religion has really done to you people.
    I can understand your frustration and you are correct that you cannot prove that God or Jesus for that matter doesn't or didn't ever exist. I for one find science and astronomy fascinating and the advances that have been made are truly amazing I also believe in God and that will never change.
    What gets me is how so many bring out the "made in 7 days" argument like I actually believe that 7 days in the bible means 7 24hr hour days.
    The new discoveries being made every day in the sciences are just more proof to me how amazing God is.
    That is all.

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