Frederick Douglass on Slavery & the US Cons ution

[ChumpDumper]

It wasn't legal to do it at that time. They would have been tracked and hunted down by evil slave hunters.

He sold one of his slaves to a person in Pennsylvania, where in a matter of years he was set free along with all slaves in that state. Madison could have done that with other slaves, even if the law you say existed at the time actually did exist. The law I saw from 1669 required that freed slaves be deported from the state, which we all know Madison fully supported.

Attacks on James Madison & the Cons ution are just a clever way to apolgize for the racist war on drugs and the racist war on terror.

You are a racist.

Nah, it has nothing to do with either. It simply has to do with getting some facts straight.

[Wild Cobra]

He did, but he didn't have time to deal with it until 1817. I'm sure you would have rushed back there and let all the slaves go, and left your wife des ute.

I think people miss one fundamental thing about slavery.

Slavery was the norm for some states. It is likely that nearly all wealthy people had slaves weather the agreed with slavery or not. The difference is how they treated the slaves.

Look at it this way. Someone who didn't agree with owning another person could have them anyway to keep them out of the clutches of someone who treated them as nothing more than property. There were n o free slaves in the south. Not owning some would mean they would go to someone who treated them like animals.

[ChumpDumper]

I think people miss one fundamental thing about slavery.

Slavery was the norm for some states. It is likely that nearly all wealthy people had slaves weather the agreed with slavery or not. The difference is how they treated the slaves.

Look at it this way. Someone who didn't agree with owning another person could have them anyway to keep them out of the clutches of someone who treated them as nothing more than property. There were n o free slaves in the south. Not owning some would mean they would go to someone who treated them like animals.

Nice paternalism.

They could have been freed and deported.

[Galileo]

Nice paternalism.

They could have been freed and deported.

You just said you opposed deportation. You are a hypocrite AND a racist.

[ChumpDumper]

You just said you opposed deportation. You are a hypocrite AND a racist.

I never said I opposed deportation per se; I opposed the thinking that it was the only possible outcome of freeing slaves, and the only course of action that could be taken since people like Madison thought free blacks and whites could not live together in the US. Madison didn't free any of his slaves, even though he could have done so and legally deport them to a northern state.

If, in fact, it was the only option open to Madison after he hypothetically freed his slaves, then it proves your contention that freeing his slaves would have been completely illegal is completely wrong.

[Galileo]

'A Glorious Liberty Do ent'
Frederick Douglass' case for an anti-slavery Cons ution
http://reason.com/archives/2006/10/0...berty-do ent

[Galileo]

The Changing View of Frederick Douglass
http://www.ocic.k12.ok.us/SMASH_Reso...Slavery%3F.pdf

[Galileo]

I never said I opposed deportation per se; I opposed the thinking that it was the only possible outcome of freeing slaves, and the only course of action that could be taken since people like Madison thought free blacks and whites could not live together in the US. Madison didn't free any of his slaves, even though he could have done so and legally deport them to a northern state.

If, in fact, it was the only option open to Madison after he hypothetically freed his slaves, then it proves your contention that freeing his slaves would have been completely illegal is completely wrong.

slavery was legal in 1836/

In 1812, James Madison invaded Canada, in an attempt add free states to the Union, so the slaves could be freed. 5 new states would have been added; Upper Canada, Lower Canada, New Brunswick, Novia Scotia, and Newfoundland. But the invasion was botched.

In 1829, at the Virginia Cons utional Convention, Madison pushed through changes that allowed poor whites (who didn't own slaves) to vote, and reduced slave power by giving less weight to slaves for puposes of seating the legislature.

Then, in 1832, Madison sent his people & elected representatives into the Virginia legislature. They tried to end slavery in Virginia, but that didn't work either. I was a real fight.

Madison went the extra mile to help free all the slaves.

[ChumpDumper]

slavery was legal in 1836/

In 1812, James Madison invaded Canada, in an attempt add free states to the Union, so the slaves could be freed. 5 new states would have been added; Upper Canada, Lower Canada, New Brunswick, Novia Scotia, and Newfoundland. But the invasion was botched.

In 1829, at the Virginia Cons utional Convention, Madison pushed through changes that allowed poor whites (who didn't own slaves) to vote, and reduced slave power by giving less weight to slaves for puposes of seating the legislature.

Then, in 1832, Madison sent his people & elected representatives into the Virginia legislature. They tried to end slavery in Virginia, but that didn't work either. I was a real fight.

Madison went the extra mile to help free all the slaves.

Except actually freeing his own slaves.

[iggypop123]

just cause 1808 ended slave trade that didnt mean it stopped. black markets no pun intended

[Wild Cobra]

just cause 1808 ended slave trade that didnt mean it stopped. black markets no pun intended

Maybe that's where the term came from?

[angrydude]

When Madison himself was alive and in charge, he was not in favor of freeing his slaves. Otherwise, he would have freed his slaves.

slaves weren't freed in the cons ution because there was no guarantee there would be a cons ution.

the anti-slave ppl thought it'd be better to have a country where the possibility of freeing the slaves would remain an option rather than not having a country at which time there would be no chance of freeing the slaves at all.

[The Franchise]

I think people miss one fundamental thing about slavery.

Slavery was the norm for some states. It is likely that nearly all wealthy people had slaves weather the agreed with slavery or not. The difference is how they treated the slaves.

Look at it this way. Someone who didn't agree with owning another person could have them anyway to keep them out of the clutches of someone who treated them as nothing more than property. There were n o free slaves in the south. Not owning some would mean they would go to someone who treated them like animals.

OUCH!!! My head hurts. How do you come up with this ?

[Galileo]

OUCH!!! My head hurts. How do you come up with this ?

Wild Cobra is pretty much of a jaggoff, but what he just said is basically sad, but true.

I have studied the life of James Madison in detail, including his relation to slavery, and the one thing that slaves feared most was being sold to the cotton fields of the deep south, were they were beaten on a regular basis and were always outside, plus split up from their families.

Upper south slaves were terrified at being sent south. The fact is, the slaves and the slaveowners both agreed that keeping them in the Upper South was humane. In the upper south, slavery was expected to end.

Also note that upper south slavery was dying and unproductive economically, while deep south slavery was getting worse. The Upper south slave owners who were losing money supporting slaves HAD A VERY STRONG ECONOMIC INCENTIVE to just say " it", and sell their slaves south.

[Galileo]

Except actually freeing his own slaves.

In 1732, James Madison's grandfather Ambrose was poisoned to death by slaves.

[MannyIsGod]

Tell me - how did the founding fathers react to women's equal rights? Perhaps you can shed some light on why Abigail Adams was refuted so hard.

The founding fathers were no smarter than many of the philosphers writing about the ideas that went into our do ents at the time and while those ideas were emerging they were still ing twisted. Rousseau anyone?

[ChumpDumper]

In 1732, James Madison's grandfather Ambrose was poisoned to death by slaves.

So there was even more incentive for James to sell his slaves.

[Galileo]

Tell me - how did the founding fathers react to women's equal rights? Perhaps you can shed some light on why Abigail Adams was refuted so hard.

The founding fathers were no smarter than many of the philosphers writing about the ideas that went into our do ents at the time and while those ideas were emerging they were still ing twisted. Rousseau anyone?

Very well.

In the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson wrote; "all men are created equal..."

But his best buddy Madison, in promotion of women's rights, changed the Preamble of the Cons ution to say; 'We the PEOPLE...."

James Madison was the second smartest man who ever lived.

[Galileo]

So there was even more incentive for James to sell his slaves.

you're stretching.

[ChumpDumper]

you're stretching.

You're the one who brought it up for no reason.

[Galileo]

You're the one who brought it up for no reason.

Madison didn't hold grudges against black people or slaves. Most people would hold grudges like that if their grandfather was murdered. Madison's grandmother even lived to tell young James about it, as James was 10 years old when his grannie died.

FACTOID

James Madison's grandmother was the sister of Zachery Taylor's grandfather.

[ChumpDumper]

Madison didn't hold grudges against black people or slaves. Most people would hold grudges like that if their grandfather was murdered. Madison's grandmother even lived to tell young James about it, as James was 10 years old when his grannie died.

So he didn't free one of his slaves because he didn't hold grudges.

James Madison didn't free any of his slaves.

[Galileo]

So he didn't free one of his slaves because he didn't hold grudges.

James Madison didn't free any of his slaves.

Dolly Madison was supposed to free the slaves. But she didn't because she wasted the family fortune, $50,000, on her son, the gambler and drunkard.

Also, Madiosn did not live near the border like Washington. Washington lived on the Maryland border so it was easier to free them. Madison lived in the heart of Virginia, and his wife was still alive, unlike Washington's.

Also, crop prices were way down and the soil was depleted by 1836, Washington died in 1799.

Madison had 100 slaves, but 2/3rds of them were too old, too young, or too sick to free, they could not survive on their own. So he had about 30 healthy slaves. But half were women, many of them pregnant, so he had only 15 able bodied men to grow the crops. So if he freed those 15 men, then the rest of the 85 slaves would starve to death. Woman couldn't be out alone in society in those days without a man.

In 1787, Madison wrote the Virginia Plan at the Cons utional Convention. In it, he did not have the 3/5th rule, that was put in later against his wishes and votes.

Madison also put in a provision for the federal government to nullify state laws. That would have been used to outlaw slavery. But Madison was again outvoted. Then he tried to get the provision put in at the end of the Convention, to no avail.

Then when James Madison wrote the Bill-of-Rights, a bill, that protects all people, he tried to get hs provision for the feds to outlaw state laws again, he put it in the Bill-of-Rights.

But again, it was taken out in committee.

Madison did everything humanly possible to end slavery. He was a divine man, an angel.

[ChumpDumper]

Madison did everything humanly possible to end slavery.

Except free his own slaves.

[Galileo]

Except free his own slaves.

James Madison Bell made up for it.