48 MOH: Theo Ratliff by the Numbers

[mountainballer]

Well, you do with what you have and Spurs don't have a sure thing able to do an even decent job on Dirk.

Duncan hasn't been able to defend him for years, I don't see how McDyess would do a better job and it would be way better if RJ was used to defend Josh Howard.

Haislip has been signed to defend players like Dirk and Ian, even if you think he is a scrub, has the mobility and length to defend him. It's possible and maybe even likely that both failed at defending Dirk or at being decent NBA players but I rather give a try to one of them in November/December than giving minutes to Raliff that early in the season.

It's a no risk, high reward situation.

I don't agree about RJ and that he needs to defend Josh Howard. if it turns out, that he does a good job defending Dirk (like other athletic SFs did before, see Posey, Sjax, Barnes), he should play the role. I know, it's always discussed as if Josh totally destroyed us last PO, but that's not accurate. in fact he wasn't even much above average, it was just that the Spurs were THAT bad, that Howards performance looked dominating.
I'm really not scared about Howard and maybe Bogans will be the best option for that job.
(btw. per design Hairston would be the perfect defender for him, he has the speed and the strength to slow Howard. but it's very unlikely he will be ready next PO, if he is with the team at all).

another point about the Mavs. again, Spurs didn't loose because some players dominated them. even Dirk didn't play well. as mentioned, outside Tony Spurs were a disaster. end of story. it's more interesting, how easy the Nuggets beat the Mavs. and other than against the Spurs, in this series Dirk did play MVP like. (despite the variety of "mobile" bigs the Nuggets had to put at him). but the Mavs didn't have a chance, their holes in the defense have been put on display by Melo and Billups. this will also be a strategy for the Spurs. (healthy) Spurs have even more weapons than last seasons Nuggets. of course they need to play defense, but it will be easier to outscore the Mavs than to outdefend them. force their many low efficiency players to shoot more than usually and Spurs will win the series on an 105-100 average.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I also don't understand the fascination with the Dirk stopper, we haven't got such a player,just like most other teams.Our biggest hopefulls are rookies, who in the very best case scenario would be adequate against him, but wouldn't otherwise deserve minutes on the floor. I'd go with whatever McDyess/Duncan/Bonner can do against him, he won't be the one to drag them through a 7-game series.

We have to concentrate on the boards, not allowing them to penetrate as much as they have against us and let them shoot jumpers, which they gladly do,and not too efficiently. We don't need a Dirk stopper or a Howard stopper to beat them, although I think RJ would do a decent job against either of them.

[Bruno]

I don't agree about RJ and that he needs to defend Josh Howard. if it turns out, that he does a good job defending Dirk (like other athletic SFs did before, see Posey, Sjax, Barnes), he should play the role. I know, it's always discussed as if Josh totally destroyed us last PO, but that's not accurate. in fact he wasn't even much above average, it was just that the Spurs were THAT bad, that Howards performance looked dominating.
I'm really not scared about Howard and maybe Bogans will be the best option for that job.
(btw. per design Hairston would be the perfect defender for him, he has the speed and the strength to slow Howard. but it's very unlikely he will be ready next PO, if he is with the team at all).

another point about the Mavs. again, Spurs didn't loose because some players dominated them. even Dirk didn't play well. as mentioned, outside Tony Spurs were a disaster. end of story. it's more interesting, how easy the Nuggets beat the Mavs. and other than against the Spurs, in this series Dirk did play MVP like. (despite the variety of "mobile" bigs the Nuggets had to put at him). but the Mavs didn't have a chance, their holes in the defense have been put on display by Melo and Billups. this will also be a strategy for the Spurs. (healthy) Spurs have even more weapons than last seasons Nuggets. of course they need to play defense, but it will be easier to outscore the Mavs than to outdefend them. force their many low efficiency players to shoot more than usually and Spurs will win the series on an 105-100 average.

Well if you play RJ at the 4, you are going to suffer rebounding-wise, even more than Mavs have added great rebounders in Marion and Gooden.

I'm also quite lost on how you have changed your stance on the need of a player to defend mobile PF compared to sooner in the offseason: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...&postcount=224

[mountainballer]

Well if you play RJ at the 4, you are going to suffer rebounding-wise, even more than Mavs have added great rebounders in Marion and Gooden.

I'm also quite lost on how you have changed your stance on the need of a player to defend mobile PF compared to sooner in the offseason: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...&postcount=224

jesus, you really go thru my posts for months to find a somehow compromising statement to use against me instead of backing up your position?
please, don't let us go thru this again, just because we will never agree on Ian, it's not worth the time and energy.
however, thanks for excavate this post of mine: how did I have changed my position???????
back then (in July, when further moves by the Spurs were not out of any possibility) I stated, that a mobile defensive big would be a welcome help. and back then I also claimed that neither Ian nor Haislip will be this solution.
when did I change this opinion???????????? please keep it above the belt!
today, 3 months later and in a situation when further moves are pretty unlikely for some months, I go with what you said:

Well, you do with what you have

I just thought about the options this current roster gives us. we don't need to agree about it and very likely Pop will go a third direction anyhow.

[benefactor]

I agree with mountainballer. There is really no need to worry much about a Dirk stopper because as long as the team defense gets back to being more Spurs-like they will be fine. On paper, the potential playoff matchup with the Mavs this year looks a lot like the matchup with the Suns from years past....and we all saw how that turned out.

[Bruno]

jesus, you really go thru my posts for months to find a somehow compromising statement to use against me instead of backing up your position?
please, don't let us go thru this again, just because we will never agree on Ian, it's not worth the time and energy.

Krishna, you are paranoid. I'm not digging through your posts for months, I just remembered you pushing hard for Spurs to get Nocioni/Gomes and I did a little research.

I don't think where is the need to back up my position. I'm just saying that Spurs have a weakness when it come to defend against combo forward, something you said months ago.

And I disagree when you said that Dirk and Howard aren't Spurs' killer. I also disagree when you said that Spurs can beat Mavs by playing like Denver. Spurs don't have a pure scorer as great as Melo to do that.

And it isn't all about Ian. There is also Haislip.

[Mel_13]

There is also Haislip.

During Haislip's time in Europe did you ever have the chance to see him play in person or on television? If you have, I would be interested in reading your estimation of his basketball skills. Most folks here have only seen his youtube videos and are trying to draw conclusions about his abilities from a bunch of dunks.

I know it is a small sample size and I am no expert, but I have seen every minute he has played at the ATT center this preseason and I am convinced that he won't play any more than Sean Marks, James White, or Jackie Butler. He was overwhelmed on the defensive end by Rob Kurz, his 3pt shot from NBA distance can best described as a 'heave', and his ball-handling is simply atrocious. I think he is what is, a professional basketball player who can make a living in Europe but is not quite good enough to stick in the NBA.

I have much, much more optimism that Ian can develop into a useful player. In that same small sample size you can see flashes of NBA-level abilities.

[z0sa]

Ratliff stays on the bench except when we require an injection of D.

[mountainballer]

I don't think where is the need to back up my position. I'm just saying that Spurs have a weakness when it come to defend against combo forward, something you said months ago.

so let's agree on this. and I didn't change my position on this. when I doubt that Ian or Haislip could be transformed into the combo defender, I don't say that the Spurs wouldn't need such a player at all. this issue could be solved if we get a player, who can play this role. (with the exception of RJ, who might come close. not that I think they should force him into the combo forward role).

I guess we will also agree that we won't see any trades before December 15th and very likely not before February deadline. if they feel that the combo defender is still the major issue, they will react. Nocioni will be available I assume, Gomes likely not. maybe even Najera becomes an option again, if he shows he is not done yet. Nets will love to get rid of him to increase their cap space 2010. (question is, do the Spurs want to pay this kind of money for such a player)

[Bruno]

During Haislip's time in Europe did you ever have the chance to see him play in person or on television? If you have, I would be interested in reading your estimation of his basketball skills. Most folks here have only seen his youtube videos and are trying to draw conclusions about his abilities from a bunch of dunks.

I know it is a small sample size and I am no expert, but I have seen every minute he has played at the ATT center this preseason and I am convinced that he won't play any more than Sean Marks, James White, or Jackie Butler. He was overwhelmed on the defensive end by Rob Kurz, his 3pt shot from NBA distance can best described as a 'heave', and his ball-handling is simply atrocious. I think he is what is, a professional basketball player who can make a living in Europe but is not quite good enough to stick in the NBA.

I have seen a couple of times of TV and he hasn't left me a great impression so I won't be able to give you a report about him.

Haislip was a very good offensive player in Europe. His offensive game was mainly based on shooting 3's and on his superior athleticism. With the 3 point line being further in NBA and players being more athletic than in Europe, Haislip will have a way harder time to score in NBA. To find a place in NBA, he has to do a huge transition to turn into an energy guy that plays good defense. I don't know if he will be able to do that transition but struggling to defend Rob Kurz isn't surely a good sign.

[Blackjack]

It's almost frightening how often I find agreement with mountainballer; it's almost as if he's in my dome.

There's no doubt that it'd be beneficial to have a competent player to match up with the Dirk's of the world, but I just can't see how Mahinmi or Haislip would be the answer.

Mahinmi isn't the coordinated, under control and highly-intelligent player he needs to be to have a chance against someone like Nowitzki. He may have the size and athleticism but he lacks the discipline, know-how and respect of the officials to stay on the court and out of foul trouble. I don't completely discount the possibility that he could get by for a stretch on Dirk and do a decent job, but it would be the exception and not the rule. The best hope with Ian would be that he could use his knack for getting to the free-throw line against Dirk. Ian attacking Dirk on offense might actually be better than anything he can do defensively.

With Haislip, it just seems like the old: 'Leopards can't change their spots.' adage. He's got all the tools that'd you'd want in a defender for perimeter-4's, but he lacks the mentality and grit; not toughness, but grit. From what I've been able to see, he gives ground too easy in the post, he's undisciplined with the pump-fake, and doesn't possess great timing when contesting shots on the ball. He'll give you a spectacular block from time-to-time, on account of his great physical talent, but I've seen really no indication that he'd give the Spurs legitimately good to solid defense against the better players they hoped he'd be able to guard. He's a great physical talent but I have a hard time believing that a guy nearing 30 and having never established himself in the NBA, is all of a sudden going to change his spots and progress enough to contribute this year.

I'm not against letting both of them have their shot at proving me wrong during the regular season, frankly, I'd love to be wrong, I just seriously have my doubts.

If the Spurs are the Spurs, they'll be fine. I understand Mavs fans gloating and wanting to claim dominance over the Spurs, they've got to have something to feel good about, but I just don't understand the Spurs fans that feel their team is incapable of beating the Mavs.

The fact of the matter is, the matchup has never been that lop-sided one way or the other.

Before '06 the season, the games and season-series were always close. In '03 the Spurs prevailed against a nightmare matchup, the Mavs suffering a very inopportune injury, and the Mavs prevailed in '06 and '09 when the Spurs had the inopportune injuries.

The Mavs have been a really good team for a while now, they've just never been great. I'd argue they haven't been a better team than the Spurs at any time this decade; the Spurs were the favorite each time but they were they were close enough, in terms of how they matched up, that injury and extenuating cir stance could sway the outcome; as it did in '06 and, to a lesser extent, '09.

*Cheap-shot alert*

The Mavs wouldn't have even got by the Suns in '06 had Amar'e been healthy. And the Suns, not the Heat, would be housing that championship banner. I thought the Mavs were the third-best team in the league that year, all things being equal. The Heat proved me wrong; turns out they were fourth. -- Yeah, I said it. --

The Spurs have never had a more talented team than they currently have, even if Duncan isn't quite as dominant, and if they're healthy and playing their best, or close to their best, ball at the right time..

The Mavs will provide nothing more than a respectable showing, in a losing effort.

[lefty]

Ratliff, to me, is Kevin Willis 2.0. I think he's a lot more athletic than KWill, but I feel like they'll have similar roles. Ratliff is going to be asked to step in for certain matchups and do what he does best...play D. He might get a few more minutes than Willis, but I'd be surprised if he sees the floor in more than half the regular season games, even if he's uninjured.

Willis was better offensively though

[peskypesky]

ratliff, to me, is kevin willis 2.0. I think he's a lot more athletic than kwill, but i feel like they'll have similar roles. Ratliff is going to be asked to step in for certain matchups and do what he does best...play d. He might get a few more minutes than willis, but i'd be surprised if he sees the floor in more than half the regular season games, even if he's uninjured.

qft