Don't tell me Matt Bonner is starting C again

[TJastal]

5 games > 82 games

Exactly right, those 5 games are 10X as important as the 82 that came before. Thanks for proving my point.

[ElNono]

While ordinarily true, it wouldn't matter, because the Spurs didn't have the team to make any noise in the playoffs anyway. Add on top of that the fact that nobody outside of TD or TP played even remotely close to good, and I'll take an 82 game sampling over 5 games.

Stop trying to save face. Dice not only shot a better clip than Bonner last season (which was Bonner breakout season with the Spurs, BTW), he's undisputedly the better defender and rebounder.

Your remark that Dice actually didn't shoot treys actually highlights my point. The 3 pointer is the lowest percentage shot in basketball, and something that should be used only sporadically. Last season we played to win with the trey or die with the trey. Considering the lack of talent, you could even argue that's all we could do. But this season we have enough good penetrators and guys that can make jumpers to keep defenses honest, while we don't have to give up offensive rebounding for it, nor have a huge black hole in the paint defensively.
That's exactly why it makes absolutely no sense to play Bonner like last season.

[Mel_13]

That's exactly why it makes absolutely no sense to play Bonner like last season.

Bonner will get rotation minutes, especially at the outset, but he will play as much or more than last season only if something quite bad has happened. Too much talent has been added for him to retain or increase his overall minutes.

[ElNono]

Bonner will get rotation minutes, especially at the outset, but he will play as much or more than last season only if something quite bad has happened. Too much talent has been added for him to retain or increase his overall minutes.

Logic would dictate that. However, Pop can be stubborn at times, especially with his vets. At the end of last season we had to endure Jack Vaughn running the backup PG while a stud like Hill was watching from the sidelines.
I am concerned, up to a certain degree, that we'll see the same with Blair and Bonner this season.

[Mel_13]

Logic would dictate that. However, Pop can be stubborn at times, especially with his vets. At the end of last season we had to endure Jack Vaughn running the backup PG while a stud like Hill was watching from the sidelines.
I am concerned, up to a certain degree, that we'll see the same with Blair and Bonner this season.

I suppose anything is possible, but I say sit back and enjoy what the Spurs will put on display this year. Savor what we have left of Tim and Manu, pull for whoever may be out there in silver and black, and go along for what promises the best ride in years. I can't start getting stressed about rotation, minutes, and such until March.

[ElNono]

I suppose anything is possible, but I say sit back and enjoy what the Spurs will put on display this year. Savor what we have left of Tim and Manu, pull for whoever may be out there in silver and black, and go along for what promises the best ride in years. I can't start getting stressed about rotation, minutes, and such until March.

I said it in another thread... I'll sweat it when and if Pop starts handing 20+ minutes per game to Finley/Bonner in detriment of other players...
Otherwise, it should be a lot of fun and can't wait for the season to start...

[Mel_13]

I said it in another thread... I'll sweat it when and if Pop starts handing 20+ minutes per game to Finley/Bonner in detriment of other players...
Otherwise, it should be a lot of fun and can't wait for the season to start...

Indeed

[TJastal]

I said it in another thread... I'll sweat it when and if Pop starts handing 20+ minutes per game to Finley/Bonner in detriment of other players...
Otherwise, it should be a lot of fun and can't wait for the season to start...

Better get your sweat towel out then. Fin and Bon-bon are STILL in the starting lineup which is pretty much going to guarantee 20+ minutes each.

[carib]

Bring back some old player to put in that C position if Bonner is going to start.

[Agloco]

Better get your sweat towel out then. Fin and Bon-bon are STILL in the starting lineup which is pretty much going to guarantee 20+ minutes each.

I see your concern but I think much of the "Fin-Bo" fear is unfounded. Pop has got options on his bench now outside of those two. Any sign that either of them is stinking up the joint will be countered with a loud gong and a quick hook on Pop's part.

I don't expect that he will pull Bonner from the starting lineup regardless of how he's playing since that might do more harm than good from a psychological standpoint. He will however limit his minutes appropriately if he's not producing. Same for Finley.

[TJastal]

I see your concern but I think much of the "Fin-Bo" fear is unfounded. Pop has got options on his bench now outside of those two. Any sign that either of them is stinking up the joint will be countered with a loud gong and a quick hook on Pop's part.

I don't expect that he will pull Bonner from the starting lineup regardless of how he's playing since that might do more harm than good from a psychological standpoint. He will however limit his minutes appropriately if he's not producing. Same for Finley.

Uh, how about the playoffs last year? Is that enough of a "sign" for you? Both of them stunk for the most part and were a large reason the spurs got slapped out of the playoffs.

[Agloco]

Uh, how about the playoffs last year? Is that enough of a "sign" for you? Both of them stunk for the most part and were a large reason the spurs got slapped out of the playoffs.

I see your concern but I think much of the "Fin-Bo" fear is unfounded. Pop has got options on his bench now outside of those two. Any sign that either of them is stinking up the joint will be countered with a loud gong and a quick hook on Pop's part.

I don't expect that he will pull Bonner from the starting lineup regardless of how he's playing since that might do more harm than good from a psychological standpoint. He will however limit his minutes appropriately if he's not producing. Same for Finley.

[ElNono]

I don't expect that he will pull Bonner from the starting lineup regardless of how he's playing since that might do more harm than good from a psychological standpoint.

See, this is a problem. I can see prioritizing the psychological well being of any of the Big 3 in detriment of somebody else, because if any of those 3 guys are not ok, we're screwed. I can also understand Pop doing that last season when we basically had nobody behind Bonner that could produce. But there's no excuse this season, IMO. Plus, do you really want a mentally weaksauce out there when it matters? I thought the Dallas series pretty much sealed the deal about that, but I guess not.

[TJastal]

Um...
If we look at the roster last year... Pop did indeed "have other options" to use as a starting center. How about Kurt Thomas? Oberto? Drew Gooden?........all of whom would have been better choices.

But Pop elected not to use them much, and they got sporadic and spotty minutes off the bench while Bonner got fairly consistent minutes up to the last game where Popovich finally got it through his dense skull to limit his minutes.

Oberto, Gooden, and KT all took a backseat to Bonner last year in PT, thanks to Pop. Now, here we are again, it's deja-vu and Bonner again appears he's going to start and get consistent minutes but now instead of KT, Gooden, and Oberto its gonna be McDyess, Blair, and Ratliff (and perhaps Mahinmi) all fighting for the scrap minutes off the bench, while Bonner will enjoy the consistency of his role as a starter and log his 20-25 mins per game. Goodie for Bonner.

Spurs vs mavs game 1
Finley 32 mins
Bonner 18 mins
Thomas 18 mins
Gooden 18 mins
F Oberto DNP-CD
G. Hill DNP-CD

Spurs vs Mavs game 2
Finley 25 mins
Bonner 29 mins
Gooden 19 mins
K Thomas 13 mins
Oberto 5 mins
G Hill 5 mins
J Vaughn 5 mins

Spurs vs Mavs game 3
Finley 17 mins
Bonner 20 mins
Thomas 18 mins
Gooden 26 mins
Oberto 17 mins

Spurs vs mavs game 4
Finley 36 mins
Bonner 22 mins
Thomas 9 mins
Gooden 8 mins
G Hill 14 mins
Oberto DNP - CD

Spurs vs mavs game 5
Finley 33 mins
Bonner 11 mins
Thomas 22 mins
Hill 33 mins
Oberto DNP - CD
Gooden DNP - CD

As for Finley playing so many minutes, this was due to Pop being too chicken to give George Hill a chance to work through his mistakes. Which doesn't exactly help your star rookie learn and get better. Instead he opted to try and mold Roger Mason into a backup point guard in the last 20 games of the season which was an utter failure and resulted in destroying what was left of RMJ's confidence and ultimately his minutes.

[Agloco]

Um...
If we look at the roster last year... Pop did indeed "have other options" to use as a starting center. How about Kurt Thomas? Oberto? Drew Gooden?........all of whom would have been better choices.

Funny how none of your "better choices" are on the roster this year. You're honestly advocating that KT or Oberto were better options to help TD and Parker on the offensive end last year? I won't even bother with a retort.

The only real argument you could make was for Gooden. The problem with him is that he allowed too many easy baskets on the defensive end. His lack of BB IQ is well do ented and you saw that magnified by the fact that he wasn't familiar with the Spurs system by the time the playoffs rolled around. The good plays he made were more than offset by the boneheaded plays, and we all know that Pop has a low tolerance for crap like that.

While I agree with your take on Mason (I personally think it was the biggest mistake Pop has made in his coaching tenure with the Spurs....), I don't think minute allocation for Hill will be an issue this year. He's the backup PG this year, period. Last year was a transition for him so he didnt want to overwhelm him. Remember, Hill was an SG in college.

So here we are this year with McDyess, Blair and Ratliff as the replacement bigs. I suppose you could try to make the argument that Oberto, Thomas and Gooden were better, but most people who know anything about basketball fundamentals would laugh at you. The main point here is that our dependency on Bonners game has been much diminished by our off season acquisitions. It's going to be really fun to watch.

[TJastal]

Yep I am advocating that Thomas and Oberto would have been better choices. The way Bonner played in that 1st game, he should have been pulled after 5-6 mins of missing everything he threw up and not helping whatsoever (as per usual) defensively and put on the end of the bench.


"So here we are this year with McDyess, Blair and Ratliff as the replacement bigs. I suppose you could try to make the argument that Oberto, Thomas and Gooden were better, but most people who know anything about basketball fundamentals would laugh at you."

Didn't say they were better than the new guys, but they weren't nearly as bad as to be stuck behind a 1-trick pony that forgot how to do his trick.

"The main point here is that our dependency on Bonners game has been much diminished by our off season acquisitions. It's going to be really fun to watch."

That's a good point in theory and all.. but that actually leads right into the point that I'm trying to make. That Pop's love for Bonner and Fin has no limitations, shown by the fact that he's MAKING THEM STARTERS AGAIN.

[portnoy1]

Yep I am advocating that Thomas and Oberto would have been better choices. The way Bonner played in that 1st game, he should have been pulled after 5-6 mins of missing everything he threw up and not helping whatsoever (as per usual) defensively and put on the end of the bench.


"So here we are this year with McDyess, Blair and Ratliff as the replacement bigs. I suppose you could try to make the argument that Oberto, Thomas and Gooden were better, but most people who know anything about basketball fundamentals would laugh at you."

Didn't say they were better than the new guys, but they weren't nearly as bad as to be stuck behind a 1-trick pony that forgot how to do his trick.

"The main point here is that our dependency on Bonners game has been much diminished by our off season acquisitions. It's going to be really fun to watch."

That's a good point in theory and all.. but that actually leads right into the point that I'm trying to make. That Pop's love for Bonner and Fin has no limitations, shown by the fact that he's MAKING THEM STARTERS AGAIN.

All spurs fans seem to talk about is the lack of scoring the spurs had. They use that as a reason for Bonner starting and logging consistent Minutes. However another Main Reason we lost is lack of DEFENSE, which would include rebounding. In all the games the spurs lost they were outrebounded. The game 2 that the spurs won they outrebounded the mavs.

game 1 dallas 39rbds spurs 35 ( Dirk / Dampier 19rbs - Tim/Bonner 10 ) L
game 2 dallas 28 rbds spurs 44 ( Dirk/Dampier 10 rbs - Tim/Bonner 18 )W game 3 dallas 51 rbds spurs 41 ( Dirk/Dampier 16rbds - Tim/Bonner 6 ) L
game 4 dallas 49 rbds spurs 35 ( Dirk/Dampier 19 rbds - Tim/Bonner 11 )L
game 5 dallas 40 rbds spurs 33 ( Dirk/Dampier 21rbds - Tim/Bonner 11) L


Rebounding is a very important part of defense. It also means you have ( or dont have ) a presence in the paint. Bonner has trouble rebounding and KT/Gooden are most certainly better rebounders than Bonner, they just cant provide you with a 3pt shot. Oberto is also known to be a better rebounder, he hustles and is smarter defensively and offensively than Bonner. They were all better options than Bonner. It would have been easier to take away 10-15pts off of O boards and guard penetration than it is to add 10-15pts hoping that Bonner will get hot. That scheme worked during the Regular season when the spurs could spread the floor parker and hit 3pt shots. In the Playoffs that just dont fly. Example ( Phoenix Suns ). If you dont play D and get rebounds (all together protecting the paint ) then you dont win.

[TJastal]

I remember watching a game last year where Bonner get outrebounded repeatedly by Matt Barnes, a guy 2 inches shorter.

Rebounding is defenitely not one of Bonner's strengths.

[mad0214]

bonner and ian have no business being on the spurs roster

time to put the rabbit back in the hat pop

I think this says it best. Completely agree, especially with Ian, and I don't know where Bonner fits in with a crowded group of bigs in Duncan, Dice, Blair, Ratliff, Ian and Haislip.

[Solid D]

The Matt Bonner Photo Gallery

[portnoy1]

I dont have a huge problem with the guy. Its just that he is not a center. C - block shots and get rebounds. He is not a PF. PF can score on the block and get rebounds. He is not a SF. SF can shoot the 3 drive and even grab a few boards and are versatile. He is a shooter and nothing more. Alot of stuff can get covered up when you have to 7footers in the paint. Thats why a 6-10 guy like Danny Ferry could play SF for the spurs. Bonner on the other hand is not playing with 2 7footers behind him and he is not as mobile as Ferry which is sad cause ferry wasn't the quickest guy in the world. If Bonner misses 10 shots in a row as a Center or really a PF playing next to Tim it doesn't bother me. If he fails to get Rebounds at that pos ion then all the hot shooting in the world cant cover for him defensively ( Rebounding).

[portnoy1]

Actually Spurs couldve signed Tim Thomas for his height and 3pt shooting for $1million. It would have also allowed Pop to play Small ball with a Thomas at the 4. Then they couldve traded Bonner and maybe someone else for a Shotblocking/Rebounding/Dunking 7footer. But ofcourse not, I mean like Matt Bonner is the Key to our 5 ring.

[TJastal]

Actually Spurs couldve signed Tim Thomas for his height and 3pt shooting for $1million. It would have also allowed Pop to play Small ball with a Thomas at the 4. Then they couldve traded Bonner and maybe someone else for a Shotblocking/Rebounding/Dunking 7footer. But ofcourse not, I mean like Matt Bonner is the Key to our 5 ring.

1 trick pony for 1 mil sounds good.

[Agloco]

Yep I am advocating that Thomas and Oberto would have been better choices. The way Bonner played in that 1st game, he should have been pulled after 5-6 mins of missing everything he threw up and not helping whatsoever (as per usual) defensively and put on the end of the bench.

Didn't say they were better than the new guys, but they weren't nearly as bad as to be stuck behind a 1-trick pony that forgot how to do his trick.

That's a good point in theory and all.. but that actually leads right into the point that I'm trying to make. That Pop's love for Bonner and Fin has no limitations, shown by the fact that he's MAKING THEM STARTERS AGAIN.

Dude. Relax. Have a virtual beer (or two), on me. And scroll though my sig. It should help you calm the nerves a bit.

I don't believe that Pop and RC have gone through all of this trouble to obtain more interior talent simply to let it sit on the bench and watch if Bonner suffer through a key stretch of 1-7 shooting or whatever have you.....

Pop realized last year that Thomas and Oberto weren't going to get it done versus the Mavs. Bonner was it, plain and simple. We needed offense and he was the only option. Neither Thomas or Oberto were going to give that to you. He's got other options now so let the man coach. Finley and Bonner won't average more than 25 minutes per, and that will be at the beginning of the season. As Jefferson, Blair and Dice work their way into the system they WILL find more minutes (RJeff will probably be around 30 to start with....). If you believe otherwise, you're delusional.

[TJastal]

Dude. Relax. Have a virtual beer (or two), on me. And scroll though my sig. It should help you calm the nerves a bit.

I don't believe that Pop and RC have gone through all of this trouble to obtain more interior talent simply to let it sit on the bench and watch if Bonner suffer through a key stretch of 1-7 shooting or whatever have you.....

Pop realized last year that Thomas and Oberto weren't going to get it done versus the Mavs. Bonner was it, plain and simple. We needed offense and he was the only option. Neither Thomas or Oberto were going to give that to you. He's got other options now so let the man coach. Finley and Bonner won't average more than 25 minutes per, and that will be at the beginning of the season. As Jefferson, Blair and Dice work their way into the system they WILL find more minutes (RJeff will probably be around 30 to start with....). If you believe otherwise, you're delusional.

How can you be so sure that Thomas and Oberto wouldn't have gotten it done? Or even Gooden for that matter. If the spurs had gotten a halfway decent game from their starting center in GAME 1 (and by decent I mean more than the zero pts & 1 rebound in 18 mins that Bonner logged) they could have very well won that game, and then gone to Dallas up 2-0 then who knows.