Windows 7

[Cry Havoc]

You own a dell

Yep. I bought this laptop in the fall of 2006 with a 4 year full coverage complete care warranty.

1.83 Ghz Core Duo 2 processor.
2 GB of DDR2 RAM
100 GB 7200 RPM Hard Drive
256 MB Nvidia Geforce Go 7900 GPU
17" WUXGA Display @ 1920x1200
DVDRW+- Superdrive
Bluetooth, wifi, 6 USB ports, DVI, S-video out

My laptop is over 3 years old. It will run Crysis. Most Apple laptops that are being built NOW won't run Crysis (and adding the video card that WILL handle it will cost you several hundred dollars). This Dell is comparably nearly as fast as many laptops that are being produced today. It still runs perfectly and handles everything I throw at it. Again, a 3 year old laptop that is still very respectable from a system spec standpoint.

But yeah, don't let a little thing like facts and price/performance get in the way of thinking Apple is god's gift to computers. Laughing at someone because of the brand of computer they own. You're really doing your part to further the image of people who own Apple computers.

[Shastafarian]

I was trying to simplify things.

But yeah, that's easy. The prices for Apple's laptops:

* 13-inch. Starts at $1199.
* 15-inch. Starts at $1699.
* 17-inch. Starts at $2499.

This discussion is over already, but I'll humor you.

Those are for MacBook Pros. The base price for a MacBook is $999. But I guess I should just stop trying since the discussion is over already.

The 13 inch Apple has TWO options.

I assume you're talking about chip options

Intel Core 2 Duo 2.26 Ghz
2GB Memory
160GB hard drive1
SD card slot
Built-in 7-hour battery
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics
Ships: Within 24hrs
Free Shipping
$1,199.00

Or:

2.26GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB DDR3 memory
250GB hard drive1
8x double-layer SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics
Built-in 7-hour battery
Polycarbonate unibody enclosure
$999.00

A similarly speced laptop from dell is $700. Just over half the price. The only trade off is a slower video card.

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellsto...op-inspiron-13

Thanks for linking to the generic Dell configure site.
I'll customize with the 2.1 GHz chip since it's closer to the 2.26 Mac offers. Dell doesn't even offer a DDR3 option and it's 800 MHz front side bus versus the Mac's standard 1066 MHz FSB. But hey, that's almost the same right?

Best Buy (who is notable for being overpriced themselves) has an entire PAGE of 13-14" laptops with superior specs to the above Apple laptop.

http://tinyurl.com/yh6sxoo

Like DDR2 and processors that aren't as good?

The most expensive laptop on the page is $400 cheaper than the Apple,

$200

and it includes a Blu-Ray drive, a superior processor (the T6600),

How is the T6600 superior?

TWO GIGS of video memory, a larger hard drive, and double the RAM of the Apple laptop.

That's all well and good. Here's a complaint from someone who has that Sony at the bottom of the page:

Most annoying things for me are the USB ports. They are very loose and the slightest movement causes my hardware to become disconnected. I will upload a video sometime.

Battery doesn't fit snug and you can feel it move a little bit. Also battery life is about 2hours. Webcam quality isn't great.

Sounds like a quality built machine.

Would you like me to continue with desktops? The disparity in price/performance is even more pronounced there, I assure you.

Yeah go for it.

[Shastafarian]

Yep. I bought this laptop in the fall of 2006 with a 4 year full coverage complete care warranty.

Why would you need such an extravagant warranty for quality machines like Dell?

1.83 Ghz Core Duo 2 processor.
2 GB of DDR2 RAM
100 GB 7200 RPM Hard Drive
256 MB Nvidia Geforce Go 7900 GPU
17" WUXGA Display @ 1920x1200
DVDRW+- Superdrive
Bluetooth, wifi, 6 USB ports, S-video out

Sounds like a good computer. Too bad it's a Dell.

My laptop is over 3 years old.

Oh so the day something breaks is fast approaching then. Good luck.

It will run Crysis.

What the is Crysis?

Most Apple laptops that are being built NOW won't run Crysis (and adding the video card that WILL handle it will cost you several hundred dollars).

Ohhhh you're talking about a computer game aren't you?

This Dell is comparably nearly as fast as many laptops that are being produced today.

Not really.

It still runs perfectly and handles everything I throw at it.

I'm sure it loves all that porn.

Again, a 3 year old laptop that is still very respectable from a system spec standpoint.

Are you saying Macs that are three years old don't work?

But yeah, don't let a little thing like facts and price

which you got wrong

performance

which is debatable no matter how much you got on your dell

get in the way of thinking Apple is god's gift to computers.

They're not. They're just overall better than most PCs being produced.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I'm not as obsessed with this issue as Havoc seems to be, but Shasta, the overpriced issue is non debatable. Macs cost a lot more money for less powerful equipment. I spent $1500 building my machine and it would have cost me upwards of about $2500 to buy a similar iMac.

Now, I'm not in the "Mac's are just for show" camp. I'm studying Cinematography and Apple is pretty much the norm when it comes to video editing. Mac's are good products, but to try and argue that they don't charge you up the ass for them is beyond homerism.

[ElNono]

My laptop is over 3 years old. It will run Crysis. Most Apple laptops that are being built NOW won't run Crysis (and adding the video card that WILL handle it will cost you several hundred dollars). This Dell is comparably nearly as fast as many laptops that are being produced today. It still runs perfectly and handles everything I throw at it. Again, a 3 year old laptop that is still very respectable from a system spec standpoint.

I have a XBox 360 for games and a Mac Mini for anything else...
I used to have a PC with XP up until about 6 months ago, but I simply grew tired of fixing it instead of actually using it.
Typical example: New game comes up, requires new DirectX 10.2 video card. Go buy Radeon/GeForce for $200, plug it in, power supply is not good enough. Go buy new power supply that's noisy as and you have to clean up every 6 months because it's a dust black hole. Finally computer turns on, have to go get new drivers, which in turn force you to reinstall DirectX. Make note to check for new video drivers every 6 months, because odds are next game is going to be incompatible with older drivers.

The Mini I have I paid $600 brand new, and I bought and installed 4 gig of ram myself for dirt cheap. I also added an external USB2 drive for cheap too.
I get to reuse my 26" monitor, Microsoft mouse, and keyboard of my choice.
I turn it on, and it works. The external drive doubles a backup volume, which is seamless with Time Machine.

I love it. I get done. The system doesn't get in my way. And that really is the bottom line. When I want to play games, I turn on the XBox and play.

[Shastafarian]

I'm not as obsessed with this issue as Havoc seems to be, but Shasta, the overpriced issue is non debatable.

Them being overpriced is debatable. Them being costly is not.

Macs cost a lot more money for less powerful equipment.

I'd like to see these examples of more powerful computers.

I spent $1500 building my machine and it would have cost me upwards of about $2500 to buy a similar iMac.

Are you sure the components were the same or even close?

[ElNono]

I'm not as obsessed with this issue as Havoc seems to be, but Shasta, the overpriced issue is non debatable. Macs cost a lot more money for less powerful equipment. I spent $1500 building my machine and it would have cost me upwards of about $2500 to buy a similar iMac.

Now, I'm not in the "Mac's are just for show" camp. I'm studying Cinematography and Apple is pretty much the norm when it comes to video editing. Mac's are good products, but to try and argue that they don't charge you up the ass for them is beyond homerism.

You have another problem, and that is that Mac products are severely overpriced in Argentina.
Apple equipment is a lot cheaper in the US.

[Shastafarian]

Ah that is something. Mac software is overpriced. Finally something everyone can agree on.

[Shastafarian]

I was gonna post something about enjoying not talking to someone in India when I need to call service. But then I realized I've never had to call service with my Mac.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

You have another problem, and that is that Mac products are severely overpriced in Argentina.
Apple equipment is a lot cheaper in the US.

I bought my entire computer in the states. I'm talking US prices. Argentina prices, my computer would cost around $2600 here.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Them being overpriced is debatable. Them being costly is not.
I'd like to see these examples of more powerful computers.
Are you sure the components were the same or even close?

Yes, I'm sure. I spent a lot of time researching whether I should buy a PC or a Mac. Like I said, I study Cinematography, video editing is key for me. In the end, I decided an iMac wasn't worth the extra money it would cost me. I'm telling you, an iMac with similar specs as my comp cost $2500 at the time I was buying. Macs are overpriced, its NOT debatable. Whether you think its worth it to pay more for them is your prerogative.

By the way, the whole reliability angle is bull . I built my own computer and havent had any hardware issues so far. Mac hardware isn't necessarily more reliable.

EDIT: Actually, the Mac I was thinking of buying was a Mac Pro, not an iMac. My bad, not entirely well versed on the names of the apple models.

[ElNono]

Yes, I'm sure. I spent a lot of time researching whether I should buy a PC or a Mac. Like I said, I study Cinematography, video editing is key for me. In the end, I decided an iMac wasn't worth the extra money it would cost me. I'm telling you, an iMac with similar specs as my comp cost $2500 at the time I was buying. Macs are overpriced, its NOT debatable. Whether you think its worth it to pay more for them is your prerogative.

By the way, the whole reliability angle is bull . I built my own computer and havent had any hardware issues so far. Mac hardware isn't necessarily more reliable.

EDIT: Actually, the Mac I was thinking of buying was a Mac Pro, not an iMac. My bad, not entirely well versed on the names of the apple models.

A Mac Pro uses at the very least Quad Core Xeon Nehalem (Xeon 5500 series) processors... The CPU alone costs upwards of $1000. You're not comparing apples to apples (pun intended).
A brand new 21" iMac costs $1200. It's probably about a couple of hundred bucks more expensive than a similarly configured PC (if it's a cheap brand like Dell, or you put it together yourself) and compe ive with other brands, like Sony.
I've used Macs and PC's for the past 20+ years, and I'll give you that Apple used to charge a lot more for hardware than other brands, but that's no longer the case since they switched to Intel chips. Prices are pretty compe ive right now.

[clambake]

is this pc vs mac thing like crips vs bloods?

[PixelPusher]

is this pc vs mac thing like crips vs bloods?

Don't bring Limbaugh into this.

[clambake]

Don't bring Limbaugh into this.

i have to. apparently he owns both.......like me.

this is not good news.

[Drachen]

I have a XBox 360 for games and a Mac Mini for anything else...
I used to have a PC with XP up until about 6 months ago, but I simply grew tired of fixing it instead of actually using it.
Typical example: New game comes up, requires new DirectX 10.2 video card. Go buy Radeon/GeForce for $200, plug it in, power supply is not good enough. Go buy new power supply that's noisy as and you have to clean up every 6 months because it's a dust black hole. Finally computer turns on, have to go get new drivers, which in turn force you to reinstall DirectX. Make note to check for new video drivers every 6 months, because odds are next game is going to be incompatible with older drivers.

The Mini I have I paid $600 brand new, and I bought and installed 4 gig of ram myself for dirt cheap. I also added an external USB2 drive for cheap too.
I get to reuse my 26" monitor, Microsoft mouse, and keyboard of my choice.
I turn it on, and it works. The external drive doubles a backup volume, which is seamless with Time Machine.

I love it. I get done. The system doesn't get in my way. And that really is the bottom line. When I want to play games, I turn on the XBox and play.

Apples to Oranges, you compared a situation in which you power up your PC in order to play games, but when you try to compare a mac, you say that you don't need your mini to play games due to your xbox. Would you need to go through all the process of upgrading installing, etc with your PC laptop if you used your xbox to play games in that scenario? Or do you realize that using your PC to play games is superior to the xbox (and by the sounds of your scenario, your mac mini), but you don't want to go through the process of updating your system and therefore settle for lower overall quality of usage in your second scenario?

[ElNono]

Apples to Oranges, you compared a situation in which you power up your PC in order to play games, but when you try to compare a mac, you say that you don't need your mini to play games due to your xbox. Would you need to go through all the process of upgrading installing, etc with your PC laptop if you used your xbox to play games in that scenario? Or do you realize that using your PC to play games is superior to the xbox (and by the sounds of your scenario, your mac mini), but you don't want to go through the process of updating your system and therefore settle for lower overall quality of usage in your second scenario?

Actually, I ended up switching when my PC decided that it will only POST 1 out of 3 times. Antivirus, Firewall, Windows updates... They just get in the way of doing things...

The game example was merely to point out you don't need a PC to play games, and I would argue a modern console is actually more convenient...

[starboy]

Yes, I'm sure. I spent a lot of time researching whether I should buy a PC or a Mac. Like I said, I study Cinematography, video editing is key for me. In the end, I decided an iMac wasn't worth the extra money it would cost me. I'm telling you, an iMac with similar specs as my comp cost $2500 at the time I was buying. Macs are overpriced, its NOT debatable. Whether you think its worth it to pay more for them is your prerogative.

The problem with your argument is you assume the value of a computer should be based solely on it's internal components/specs.

This is false, of course, as there are other things that add/take away value to a computer:

Build Quality
Looks
Software
Ratings
Customer Service Ratings
...
I could go on and on.

The point is, just because a Computer A(Mac) costs more than Computer B(PC), with the same internal specs(CPU, HDD, Vid. Card etc), doesn't mean Computer A is overpriced since other factors tie into the value of a computer.

-For instance-

If
Computer A has better Software
Computer A looks better
Computer A has better technical and customer support
Computer A has historically lasted longer
Computer A has better build quality
Computer A will easily strike up a conversation with a girl with tight jeans in a metro coffee shop cafe
etc...

Doesn't it make sense computer A(Mac) would cost more?

[The_Worlds_finest]

Glad to see I got a little something started....

While at best buy looking for

World wide mega band Taintstick; First and last Album "6 pounds of sound". I thought to myself why not look at the new 27" imac. I will admit using the new heat sensing mouse was pretty nice, hopefully they dont own the patent on it, overall though wasnt impressed with the computer.

Sure it has its a very slick unibody design but is it worth the extra cash? I build my own computers. My current system; 4500 dual core, 4 gig ram, 9400GS 512 ram, 160 gig rom, decent Gigabyte MOBO cost me $300 dollars. (shame on me for not sending in the 50 dollars of rebates!). And yes if I did have the money to buy the $3,400 imac I want I probably would....BUT only to see what the hype is about and only after I built a windows based system of equal cost, which would ultimatly destory anything the mac community could throw at it

As for "virius, crashes, driver issues, hacking,....blah blah balh" I ran vista over a year with not ONE problem.

Win7 is amazing and for you mac people glad you found something you like aswell.

[The_Worlds_finest]

Computer A will easily strike up a conversation with a girl with tight jeans in a metro coffee shop cafe

you serious??? my god apple is clever with thier marketing...let me guess you deserve a mac right?

[starboy]

you serious??? my god apple is clever with thier marketing...let me guess you deserve a mac right?

It was obviously a joke.
But good job not catching it, that's pretty fantastic of you.


-business/economic question-

So does anyone think this is going to help Windows regain the Market-share it lost during the Vista Era?

[The_Worlds_finest]

I highly doubt it. But on the same token what did MS give up 2-3%

[ChumpDumper]

How much market share did Windows lose?

[The_Worlds_finest]

http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=5897

[ChumpDumper]

Macs definitely have their niche. I just like building my own machines too much to care about them. Low power consumption HTPCs are my favorite now. Thanks for that link if nothing else, TWF -- those new AMD CPUs look cool.